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Old
12-14-2012, 01:06 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
People really are ****ed up. 27 dead 18 children by two gunmen in Connecticut.. That **** gets me angry.
Yeah, this is one of those few mass shootings that really bothers me. Being someone who went to school for a history degree before I moved on to other things, I always am a little less offended by things than most people. But this kind of thing when it comes to really little kids bothers me. The only other shooting I can think of that messed with my head this much was the Amish school shooting.

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12-14-2012, 01:35 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Yeah, this is one of those few mass shootings that really bothers me. Being someone who went to school for a history degree before I moved on to other things, I always am a little less offended by things than most people. But this kind of thing when it comes to really little kids bothers me. The only other shooting I can think of that messed with my head this much was the Amish school shooting.
That one in Norway was pretty messed up too.

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12-14-2012, 01:40 PM
  #228
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That one in Norway was pretty messed up too.
You are right. Especially in a Scandinavian country. Honestly though, there is a reason that this stuff predominately happens in the US. They have all these gun rights, but no gun education. I've never really understood what makes their society so violent compared to our own though in general, things happen sometimes in Canada sure, but the rate and size of the things that happen in the US just scares the hell out of me sometimes.

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12-14-2012, 02:52 PM
  #229
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This crap news hits all parents really hard in the heart... It brought tears to my eyes.

The thing that really pisses me off are the majority of the posts on CNN where people are along the lines of "Guns do not kill people, people kill people"... They are a bunch of selfish F-ing Dumb@sses who can not see the big picture until it affects their own families...

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12-14-2012, 03:00 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Calgary Oilers View Post
This crap news hits all parents really hard in the heart... It brought tears to my eyes.

The thing that really pisses me off are the majority of the posts on CNN where people are along the lines of "Guns do not kill people, people kill people"... They are a bunch of selfish F-ing Dumb@sses who can not see the big picture until it affects their own families...
All these idiot republicans. Their idol Reagan supported limiting gun rights and assault weapon bans when he was president. I just dont see any reason why someone shooting for fun or hunting needs a 5.56 mm carbine with full auto and probably extended or drum magazines.

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12-14-2012, 06:16 PM
  #231
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Never understood how assault rifles came to be such an important component of a constitution.

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12-15-2012, 01:23 AM
  #232
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Jeff Passan ‏@JeffPassan
Source: Mets and Blue Jays on the verge of deal that would send R.A. Dickey to Toronto, Travis D'Arnaud to Mets. Teams looking at medicals.
I'm not sure how reliable this guy is.

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12-15-2012, 01:53 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
I'm not sure how reliable this guy is.
I don't follow him, but it's been rumoured all day, with varying pieces going back and forth.

All I know is this: if the Jays trade D'Arnaud they BETTER be getting back a lot more than a 38 year old guy with one year left on his deal.

Even then I still think it's an epic fail to trade this kid right now.

Shop JP + Gose if you want a pitcher and take the best you can get or sign Villenueva. Don't mortgage even more future for next year.

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12-15-2012, 01:58 AM
  #234
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Every minute that passes by today I've gotten more upset about even reading about trading D'Arnaud. ****.

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12-15-2012, 03:30 AM
  #235
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Yeah I'm not really a fan of trading Travis. I still don't know how I feel about this.

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12-15-2012, 03:48 AM
  #236
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I'd rather not get Dickey at all than trade D'arnaud. I think an extra arm is needed, but you'd think that could be found elsewhere.
If it's JP + Gose, then I'm all for it.

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12-15-2012, 07:25 AM
  #237
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It's not like the jays are desperate, they have a very solid top 4 already just need more depth.

If they trade D'Arnaud I think we will look back and realize it was an epic fail within a few years unless they somehow win it all next year.

I'm just praying AA isn't that stupid or that the deal is much bigger.

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12-15-2012, 11:55 AM
  #238
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If AA is sure he can get Dickey to sign for another couple of years it would be ok. He may be 38 but knucklers can pitch for ever. The oldest pitcher to throw in the MLB was a 60 year old knuckballer. The Blue Jays pitching needs to be better. I do prefer to see JP go, but it is what it is. Prospects in baseball are the biggest roll of the dice ever.

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12-15-2012, 12:06 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
If AA is sure he can get Dickey to sign for another couple of years it would be ok. He may be 38 but knucklers can pitch for ever. The oldest pitcher to throw in the MLB was a 60 year old knuckballer. The Blue Jays pitching needs to be better. I do prefer to see JP go, but it is what it is. Prospects in baseball are the biggest roll of the dice ever.
Prospects are a tough gamble, but the jays have JP behind the plate catching a knuckleball? Dear lord, he can barely catch off speed strikes. John buck is going to see a lot of work then IMO.

I still can't see it being D'Arnaud for dickey straight up. D'Arnaud is likely the best catching prospect in the game right and depending where you rank Sanchez and Syndergaard he might be the top jays prospect as well. So it's not like they're trading a boom/bust type of guy, he does pretty much everything better than JP.

That being said, I think it's clear the jays know this since they tried to offer JP and Goae first.

If they get dickey + prospect and he signs, ill live

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12-15-2012, 12:14 PM
  #240
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D'Arnaud isn't great defensively in his own right, but an upgrade to JP and a much better hitter.

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12-15-2012, 12:33 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Prospects are a tough gamble, but the jays have JP behind the plate catching a knuckleball? Dear lord, he can barely catch off speed strikes. John buck is going to see a lot of work then IMO.

I still can't see it being D'Arnaud for dickey straight up. D'Arnaud is likely the best catching prospect in the game right and depending where you rank Sanchez and Syndergaard he might be the top jays prospect as well. So it's not like they're trading a boom/bust type of guy, he does pretty much everything better than JP.

That being said, I think it's clear the jays know this since they tried to offer JP and Goae first.

If they get dickey + prospect and he signs, ill live

It was sounding like both sides were making additions to the deal. But yeah, I was definitely thinking in my head that Buck would be getting every 5th start to catch Dickey. I really think the Jays need Dickey as well though. He's one of those guys that could actually push us into that wild card spot. That's the only time I even find baseball enjoyable is when the blue jays are in the hunt.

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12-15-2012, 12:46 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
It was sounding like both sides were making additions to the deal. But yeah, I was definitely thinking in my head that Buck would be getting every 5th start to catch Dickey. I really think the Jays need Dickey as well though. He's one of those guys that could actually push us into that wild card spot. That's the only time I even find baseball enjoyable is when the blue jays are in the hunt.
If you were the GM, and you traded D'Arnaud for Dickey + a prospect, would you give him 26 million over 2 years, effectively making him worth 31 million over the next 3 years?

Or would you let him pitch the first couple months and try to get him cheaper?

He's coming off a CY, so you'd think he wouldn't really be able to raise his value, but then you risk trading a top prospect and having him walk.

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12-15-2012, 12:54 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
If you were the GM, and you traded D'Arnaud for Dickey + a prospect, would you give him 26 million over 2 years, effectively making him worth 31 million over the next 3 years?

Or would you let him pitch the first couple months and try to get him cheaper?

He's coming off a CY, so you'd think he wouldn't really be able to raise his value, but then you risk trading a top prospect and having him walk.
Well if Dickey demands an extension immediately than yes, since it's baseball you pay him. It's not like it's really killing the teams bottom line if it's only a total 3 years. It's not like an Angels thing where they are still paying Vernon Wells' big ass contract out. Like I said, his age doesn't bother me, a knuckleball pitcher doesn't ruin his arm like a guy who throws heat does. I'm really not worried about his production dropping off too much.

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12-15-2012, 01:17 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Well if Dickey demands an extension immediately than yes, since it's baseball you pay him. It's not like it's really killing the teams bottom line if it's only a total 3 years. It's not like an Angels thing where they are still paying Vernon Wells' big ass contract out. Like I said, his age doesn't bother me, a knuckleball pitcher doesn't ruin his arm like a guy who throws heat does. I'm really not worried about his production dropping off too much.
Ya, I'm not overly concerned about his age or his arm either.

Truthfully, I am more concerned about his stats at Rogers Centre. That place is a tiny little box compared to some, so on nights where it isn't moving I think it could end really ugly compared to other places that were interested like LA and Texas.

That being said, a rotation of JJ, Morrow, Beuhrle, Romero, and Dickey is pretty damn good going forward.

It would be ideal since Happ could the long inning guy still, likely means Oliver is willing to come back another year, and Janssen looks good as well.

A healthy team is a playoff team, and then from there it's all about going on a good run, getting hot at the right time, and a little luck as well.

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12-15-2012, 01:22 PM
  #245
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Ya, I'm not overly concerned about his age or his arm either.

Truthfully, I am more concerned about his stats at Rogers Centre. That place is a tiny little box compared to some, so on nights where it isn't moving I think it could end really ugly compared to other places that were interested like LA and Texas.

That being said, a rotation of JJ, Morrow, Beuhrle, Romero, and Dickey is pretty damn good going forward.

It would be ideal since Happ could the long inning guy still, likely means Oliver is willing to come back another year, and Janssen looks good as well.

A healthy team is a playoff team, and then from there it's all about going on a good run, getting hot at the right time, and a little luck as well.
Now, it's been a while since I've been into baseball stats, but doesn't the Skydome (I'll always call it that, I'm weird) become a hitters park when the dome is closed but if you open it, it creates a weird wind wall in left center field that makes the ball hang up? If that's the case, just open the dome every time Dickey is on the mound.

And yeah, when Morrow can be your number 5 pitcher in a rotation you are doing ok. I think our 5-man will probably be JJ, Dickey, Romero, Buerhle, Morrow. Only thing with that rotation is it has a lot of question marks when it comes to how well the arms will hold up. JJ and Dickey are the only 2 that don't really concern me health wise.

EDIT: I'm also pretty sure Texas is the most hitter friendly ball park in the majors next to Colorado is it not? I remember hearing a discussion about that in the last few days, must have been on DLHQ probably, since I find Papi to be the most entertaining person in sports journalism.

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12-15-2012, 01:48 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Now, it's been a while since I've been into baseball stats, but doesn't the Skydome (I'll always call it that, I'm weird) become a hitters park when the dome is closed but if you open it, it creates a weird wind wall in left center field that makes the ball hang up? If that's the case, just open the dome every time Dickey is on the mound.

And yeah, when Morrow can be your number 5 pitcher in a rotation you are doing ok. I think our 5-man will probably be JJ, Dickey, Romero, Buerhle, Morrow. Only thing with that rotation is it has a lot of question marks when it comes to how well the arms will hold up. JJ and Dickey are the only 2 that don't really concern me health wise.

EDIT: I'm also pretty sure Texas is the most hitter friendly ball park in the majors next to Colorado is it not? I remember hearing a discussion about that in the last few days, must have been on DLHQ probably, since I find Papi to be the most entertaining person in sports journalism.
It's a tough thing to really evaluate.

IIRC, Texas is like top 5 in all the major categories in runs, HR, hits, etc. as far as stadiums, and the Rogers Centre is nowhere near as bad. Purely on stats alone I think Rogers Centre is like an average park for hitters.

The problem with these stats though is a team like Texas has an offense that puts Toronto to shame, at least before next year, so it's tough to really evaluate different parks.

Colorado is just insane though, ball flies outta there like crazy.

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12-15-2012, 01:50 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Now, it's been a while since I've been into baseball stats, but doesn't the Skydome (I'll always call it that, I'm weird) become a hitters park when the dome is closed but if you open it, it creates a weird wind wall in left center field that makes the ball hang up? If that's the case, just open the dome every time Dickey is on the mound.

And yeah, when Morrow can be your number 5 pitcher in a rotation you are doing ok. I think our 5-man will probably be JJ, Dickey, Romero, Buerhle, Morrow. Only thing with that rotation is it has a lot of question marks when it comes to how well the arms will hold up. JJ and Dickey are the only 2 that don't really concern me health wise.

EDIT: I'm also pretty sure Texas is the most hitter friendly ball park in the majors next to Colorado is it not? I remember hearing a discussion about that in the last few days, must have been on DLHQ probably, since I find Papi to be the most entertaining person in sports journalism.
The scary thing is Morrow might have the best stuff out of the 5, he just needs to be able to stay healthy and put it all together into one season.

If he does this rotation is going to be filthy.

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12-15-2012, 02:00 PM
  #248
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It would be a big mistake to trade TDA for Dickey.

The big 3 in terms of prospects for the Jays are TDA, Sanchez and Syndergaard. All three have incredibly high upsides and a decent chance of getting there.

Especially TDA who at worse will be a late season call up.

Now I like Dickey. Reigning Cy Young winner, but he's also 38 and has only 'figured it out' 3 seasons ago. To trade a prospect who could top-10 maybe even top-5 in his position for him doesn't make sense.

Yes Dickey could give us a damn good rotation, but he could also flop. He's a knuckleballer which makes me nervous, and add to the fact he's only recently found success makes me quite unsure.

He's a great guy and a good story, but to trade a top-10 prospect in baseball like TDA for Dickey makes no sense to me. I'd trade JP and Gose, but TDA no way.

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12-15-2012, 02:06 PM
  #249
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It would be a big mistake to trade TDA for Dickey.

The big 3 in terms of prospects for the Jays are TDA, Sanchez and Syndergaard. All three have incredibly high upsides and a decent chance of getting there.

Especially TDA who at work will be a late season call up.

Now I like Dickey. Reigning Cy Young winner, but he's also 38 and has only 'figured it out' 3 seasons ago. To trade a prospect who could top-10 maybe even top-5 in his position for him doesn't make sense.

Yes Dickey could give us a damn good rotation, but he could also flop. He's a knuckleballer which makes me nervous, and add to the fact he's only recently found success makes me quite unsure.

He's a great guy and a good story, but to trade a top-10 prospect in baseball like TDA for Dickey makes no sense to me. I'd trade JP and Gose, but TDA no way.
It might make more sense if there are other pieces going each way, but I am not sure what other prospect or piece from the Mets would make sense.

Zack Wheeler is obviously off limits I would assume, and I doubt they would trade Niese, so not sure what other pieces would interest the Jays.

I still think it's dumb, but it appears to be happening whether we like it or not, so just hoping AA has something else in the deal.

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12-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #250
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It might make more sense if there are other pieces going each way, but I am not sure what other prospect or piece from the Mets would make sense.

Zack Wheeler is obviously off limits I would assume, and I doubt they would trade Niese, so not sure what other pieces would interest the Jays.

I still think it's dumb, but it appears to be happening whether we like it or not, so just hoping AA has something else in the deal.
Wheeler and Harvey are untouchable, so not them. Niese could probably be had, but honestly he's overrated. According to some sources:

Mike Puma ‏@NYPost_Mets
As of this morning, the Dickey trade was going to include 7 players. Four coming to the Mets and three going to Jays.

Mike Puma ‏@NYPost_Mets
Hearing the Jays want a catcher back. Could be Thole.

Mike Puma ‏@NYPost_Mets
If Thole goes, Mets could bring back a second catcher in the deal, I'm told. Probably John Buck.

Still don't like it. Mets don't really have other pieces we'd consider taking. Ugh dreading us giving up TDA.

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