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In their primes: Russian Rocket vs Golden Brett

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Old
02-07-2005, 10:50 PM
  #1
PapaBear*
 
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In their primes: Russian Rocket vs Golden Brett

I am looking forward to these responses. In their primes, who would you have rather had on your RW scoring goals...Hull or Bure. Tough call, but Bure for me. This guy was just downright scary in his primes and could very well be the best pure goal scorer of the early 90's.

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02-07-2005, 10:51 PM
  #2
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Hull

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Old
02-07-2005, 10:55 PM
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Hull at his speak was a 86 goals scorers. Pavel Bure is one of the most spectacular player ever, he was the fastest player i ever seen and had some of the craziest move around, while being deadly accurate with his wrist shot. But it's pretty hard competing against a Hull when it's time to shoot hard the puck into the net. Also, pretty though arguying about 86 goals.

Brett Hull for me.

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Old
02-07-2005, 10:58 PM
  #4
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I'll definately take Hull

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02-07-2005, 11:01 PM
  #5
Hockey Outsider
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Top 5 Adjusted Goal in a season:

Hull: 82, 66, 65, 55, 53
Bure: 69, 68, 62, 58, 52

It's close but I'll take Hull.

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Old
02-07-2005, 11:01 PM
  #6
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Bure for me. Know why? When has this guy ever had a great centreman feeding him? Hull had Oates, Modano, etc.

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02-07-2005, 11:23 PM
  #7
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I'd take Bure.

Both were small purely-offensive snipers.

Hull had his wicked release and tremondous velocity on his shot while Bure had his world-class speed and fancy stickhandling.

Hull may be a better leader and probably had a better NHL career but if I could choose one, I'd still take Bure. His acceleration was absolutely incredible and I doubt that there are more than 5 players in the entire NHL that could chase him down when he is on a breakaway. Goalies were very scared of him. Hull is a type of player who can shoot from anywhere and make a fantastic shot but he does need a solid playmaker. Bure can create his own opportunities and imo, he is also a great playmaker when he chooses to be.

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02-07-2005, 11:33 PM
  #8
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I would take Bure as PapaBear said he never had a true #1 center feeding him his passes.

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Old
02-07-2005, 11:37 PM
  #9
Luigi Lemieux
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i too would take bure. imagine bure with oates centering him game in and game out. 80 goals would not be out of the question for him in the early 90s.

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02-07-2005, 11:46 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I would take Bure as PapaBear said he never had a true #1 center feeding him his passes.
Cliff Ronning was ok but I agree bure pretty much had to do it on his own.

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Old
02-07-2005, 11:57 PM
  #11
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I'll take Bure

Hull had that deadly one timer

Bure was more of a threat all the way around with his speed and skill

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02-08-2005, 12:42 AM
  #12
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I can't pass on Bure.

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Old
02-08-2005, 01:07 AM
  #13
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Pavel Bure for me. Its gonna be quite some time until another player like him come around.

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Old
02-08-2005, 01:13 AM
  #14
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Tough choice, on a certain level. I would say that the two are probably the best two pure goal scorers of the last decade or so.

Hull has the gaudier personal numbers, and probably has had the better career overall. He's a lock for the hall of fame, IMO. His one-timer is one of (if not the) best ever, and an 86 goal season is insane, and speaks for itself. Hull at his peak was an absolute terror.

Then there's Bure. Unquestionably one of the most exciting players of the last generation, if not ever. One of the fastest and most explosive players ever. His wrist and snap shots are wicked, and IMO his slap and one timer are underrated; he scored a lot of goals just flying up the wing and letting one rip. Also, his international career is very very good, a fact many overlook. On the other hand there are a lot of knocks against him; he is soft on D, can be maddeningly inconsistent, has reputation for being selfish, and other than here in Vancouver in the early 90's, never really played for a contender/good team. As much as I would like him to, I don't think he's going to make the hall of fame - he's never won a cup, never hit 500 goals (although he would have been a lock if he was healthy, to be sure).

But I'd still take Bure. Why? First of all, as said look at who he has played with over his career. While Hull has played with Oates, Modano, Datsyuk, etc, who has Bure played with? Anatoli Semenov, Murray Craven, Viktor Kozlov (and in his rookie season Igor Larionov, the only true playmaker he's been paired with). Bure has never been surrounded with the same kind of talent Hull has (except in New York, but that was an absolute debacle, and after he had been ***** by injuries). I suppose this proves that he can't carry a team on his own, but it also makes you wonder what heights he would have reached playing his prime on better teams. Purely looking at their skill sets, Bure takes it in a landslide. True, Hull has perhaps the most deadly release ever. But Pavel more makes up for it with his skating and puckhandling ability, not to mention his shot, which is still better than 90% of the league.

So, for me, Bure. Hull was amazing but IMO he still can't touch Bure.

lol, sorry for the essay-length response

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02-08-2005, 01:27 AM
  #15
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Hull.

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Old
02-08-2005, 01:47 AM
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Nice post there GravityGrave.. couldn't agree more While Hull might have had the better shot he sure didnt have the speed, smooth skating, slick stickhandling that Bure had. So yeah I would go with Bure but if I had to choose a Right winger that played in the last 15 years I would definately choose Jagr over these two.

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02-08-2005, 01:51 AM
  #17
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Bure for me. But i am biased - he's my favourite player.

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02-08-2005, 02:25 AM
  #18
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hull. best shooter ever, imo
bure was a stud, but i dont know about the no center theory. i think he flew best solo. i dont think he really needed linemates, let alone someone that kept the puck from time to time. bure at his best required no setup. all the memories we love about him are him flying at top speed with the puck - where is there a pass in those plays? all a center would have done is flip a puck in front of him and watch. i suppose that might make him better, but i remember hull at his peak....he was freakish. he never missed. best shooter ever. 86 goals and at least half of them he barely touched the puck.

although i would agree with above - i would take jagr at his best over either.

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02-08-2005, 02:48 AM
  #19
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Hull easily, he is one of the best trigger men and in his hey day had the moves to go with it.

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02-08-2005, 03:42 AM
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Bure would have been better off with a defensemen able to make long outlet passes then any center. Partly for cherry picking, but mostly for his speed and 1 on 1 moves.

Scott Young is by no means Bure, but he scored alot of goals with us on break out passes from MacInnis and Pronger. I can't remember who the Nucks had for defense back then, besides Babych and Lumme.

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Old
02-08-2005, 03:51 AM
  #21
sunb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBleeder
Bure would have been better off with a defensemen able to make long outlet passes then any center. Partly for cherry picking, but mostly for his speed and 1 on 1 moves.

Scott Young is by no means Bure, but he scored alot of goals with us on break out passes from MacInnis and Pronger. I can't remember who the Nucks had for defense back then, besides Babych and Lumme.
Jeff Brown. Jyrki Lumme was great for Vancouver back then and I think he benefitted Bure a lot.

Another point about Bure being better than Hull is that. Bure was a star the day he set foot in the league. As a 20 year old rookie Bure absolutely tore up the league and averaged 50+ goals in his first three seasons. Brett Hull had a rough NHL start and didn't find his groove until a couple of seasons after his NHL debut.

Bure had an amazing international career that started even earlier. During his draft year, he was a top 5 player who dominated the WJC with one of the best lines in WJC history: Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure. Brett Hull was cut from WJC's Team Canada ....

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Old
02-08-2005, 09:48 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen
hull. best shooter ever, imo
bure was a stud, but i dont know about the no center theory. i think he flew best solo. i dont think he really needed linemates, let alone someone that kept the puck from time to time. bure at his best required no setup. all the memories we love about him are him flying at top speed with the puck - where is there a pass in those plays? all a center would have done is flip a puck in front of him and watch.
Couldn't have said it better. Why would Bure need a center when the majority of his goals came from his blowing by people with his speed and moves? I think people are confusing "better player" with "more excuting." I'll take Hull any day of the week. And btw, Modano is NOT an elite playmaking center. Oates is the only one Hull ever played with, and whether he needed a playmaker or not, I'll still take the guy with three 70+ goal seasons. Also, the two seasons after Oates was traded, Hull still managed 57 and 54 goals. Not too shabby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Another point about Bure being better than Hull is that. Bure was a star the day he set foot in the league. As a 20 year old rookie Bure absolutely tore up the league and averaged 50+ goals in his first three seasons. Brett Hull had a rough NHL start and didn't find his groove until a couple of seasons after his NHL debut...
Terrible argument, IMO. Sergei Samsonov had a much better start to his career than Joe Thornton did. Would you rather have Samsonov now? And if you want to compare overall careers, it's no contest. Hull wins in a landslide. Where's Bure's Hart trophy and Stanley Cup?

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Old
02-08-2005, 10:42 AM
  #23
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Bure was the better player no question. If you are considering injuries and his selfishnes, then one might consider Hull. But it depends on whether you have an elite centerman or not. I think if you would switch Bure and Hull, that is let Bure play with Oates, Modano, Zubov etc, and let Hull take Bures place I think this choice would be pretty easy. And by the way saying Bure benefitted from Lumme:

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Old
02-08-2005, 11:30 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Jeff Brown. Jyrki Lumme was great for Vancouver back then and I think he benefitted Bure a lot.

Another point about Bure being better than Hull is that. Bure was a star the day he set foot in the league. As a 20 year old rookie Bure absolutely tore up the league and averaged 50+ goals in his first three seasons. Brett Hull had a rough NHL start and didn't find his groove until a couple of seasons after his NHL debut.

Bure had an amazing international career that started even earlier. During his draft year, he was a top 5 player who dominated the WJC with one of the best lines in WJC history: Mogilny - Fedorov - Bure. Brett Hull was cut from WJC's Team Canada ....
Although Bure was explosive and extremely skilled, I go with Hull as he had the uncanny ability to ALWAYS find the open ice, and he had one of the best and most feared shots in hockey. Hull scored 50 pts in his rookie year in 52 games with the Flames, so I wouldn't call that a slow start. For me, it is hard to argue with 700+ goals with seasons of 72,86,and 70 goals scored seasons in a row. Heck he put up 68 pts last year as a 39 year old. I think Hull is/has been underated in the hockey world.

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Old
02-08-2005, 11:45 AM
  #25
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Hull.

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