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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:15 PM
  #326
ALine
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Blacker never looked as good as Finn has in junior, including the year he went to the memorial cup, I watched the tournament and he was pretty mediocre IMO, He is also stalled right now in the AHL, he has shown almost no offence thus far at the pro level, something that he was expected to. He has settled down a little defensively but has a long way to go.
.
Mem cup is a gimmick. Its the teams willing to get the dirtiest that win. Owen sound team as a whole weren't playing the way that got em there. That's what happens when you lose your two best forwards to cheap shots. (ya I'm still bitter).


Did you happen to see the OHL playoffs where he was absolutely stellar. Most ice time, all situations, most relied upon defender we had. We wouldn't have even gotten out of the first round if not for his steady game, at both ends of the ice. If the mem cup was your first impression of blacker, I can undertand why you would have that opinion from the start, but one tournement does define a player. Reading your comments on him certainly make it sound like you haven't been willining to broaden your perspective on him since.


on the topic at hand...
I find it hard to start looking at players while we haven't a clue where abouts we will draft. My initial reaction from a quick overview Of potential draftees is that it looks to be forward heavy, as apposed to the defensive heavy draft of last June this pleases me, looks like we could nab a big bodied centerman. My heart tells me look at the ones to potentially go after 16, but my mind is telling me look at Barkov.

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11-21-2012, 10:29 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by ALine View Post
Mem cup is a gimmick. Its the teams willing to get the dirtiest that win. Owen sound team as a whole weren't playing the way that got em there. That's what happens when you lose your two best forwards to cheap shots. (ya I'm still bitter).


Did you happen to see the OHL playoffs where he was absolutely stellar. Most ice time, all situations, most relied upon defender we had. We wouldn't have even gotten out of the first round if not for his steady game, at both ends of the ice. If the mem cup was your first impression of blacker, I can undertand why you would have that opinion from the start, but one tournement does define a player. Reading your comments on him certainly make it sound like you haven't been willining to broaden your perspective on him since.


on the topic at hand...
I find it hard to start looking at players while we haven't a clue where abouts we will draft. My initial reaction from a quick overview Of potential draftees is that it looks to be forward heavy, as apposed to the defensive heavy draft of last June this pleases me, looks like we could nab a big bodied centerman. My heart tells me look at the ones to potentially go after 16, but my mind is telling me look at Barkov.
Right now other than the big 2, I would be estastic if we got Monahan, Nichuskin, or Pulock. I am looking for the BPA, not the best player to fit a position. But an impact player. I don't know enough about Barkov except from his stats and highlights. If he were playing in another league I would be more comfortable he is all they are saying he is on hockey boards. Need to see him against players we know, I have him fairly high at #5, could be higher after the Worlds.

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11-21-2012, 10:43 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Right now other than the big 2, I would be estastic if we got Monahan, Nichuskin, or Pulock. I am looking for the BPA, not the best player to fit a position. But an impact player. I don't know enough about Barkov except from his stats and highlights. If he were playing in another league I would be more comfortable he is all they are saying he is on hockey boards. Need to see him against players we know, I have him fairly high at #5, could be higher after the Worlds.
I Agree with you saying take BPA. Ab-so-lutely, take the best player for the organization where you pick, or be bold, and get the player you deem BPA ahead of you, without gutting the youth you've developed.

I just think this year, BPA and forward are a really likely combination in the majority of spots in the draft. If there's no forwards you rate at your spot, there should be no problem taking a solid young defenseman. We've been accumulating assets on the back end for a few years, if we can add the potential last piece, draft Jones/Pulock/Ristolainen/Nurse.

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11-21-2012, 10:44 PM
  #329
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I Agree with you saying take BPA. Ab-so-lutely, take the best player for the organization where you pick, or be bold, and get the player you deem BPA ahead of you, without gutting the youth you've developed.

I just think this year, BPA and forward are a really likely combination in the majority of spots in the draft. If there's no forwards you rate at your spot, there should be no problem taking a solid young defenseman. We've been accumulating assets on the back end for a few years, if we can add the potential last piece, draft Jones/Pulock/Ristolainen/Nurse.
Think about the possibility of trade returns we could get if these young guys force our hand too. We'll have plenty of youthful players who are looking to crack the Leafs at the back end. We'll be forced to be move some because Burke doesn't like holding players back.. And that will in turn, boost our forward spot or even goaltending... That's why BPA is always the best way to draft.

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11-21-2012, 11:39 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Blacker never looked as good as Finn has in junior, including the year he went to the memorial cup, I watched the tournament and he was pretty mediocre IMO, He is also stalled right now in the AHL, he has shown almost no offence thus far at the pro level, something that he was expected to. He has settled down a little defensively but has a long way to go.

Finn has a lot more potential than him, infact I would surmise Granberg will pass Blacker as soon as he gets up here. It's a fair critique if you have seen Blacker play, it's not his skating or willingness that is the question, it is his instincts for the game.
Well then I dunno what to tell you, Interactif. Looks like another case of you being right all along. You need to get a professional scouting job and stop peddling around with the unlearned masses on here.

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11-22-2012, 01:33 AM
  #331
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Just spent spent some time looking up Barkov, and man does he look like a real good player already. From what I can tell he looks like he could step into the NHL next year with little trouble. I agree with previous posters, definitely getting a little Sundin vibe. Seems to project to be quite a similar player. I wasn't sold on any of the center men drafted last June(Galy, Grig, Forsberg). This should be the time to fill a much needed hole that is next to impossible to fill by trade, and very difficult to fill by signing a guy(watch us sign Getzlaf).

Now, Barkov is unlikely to just fall into our laps at whichever pick we end up at. The past has shown, junior players playing overseas, even whiledominating a men's league, tend to fall. This will be necessary in order to get Barkov. If hes top four or five, it won't happen because it will take a Kessel or Rielly, which would be stupid to give up. Of he's goes in the six the ten range, a nice package of picks/prospects and less prominante roster players could be used to acquire him, especially if its a Center strong team that is due to pick him. This is assuming (hoping) we pick quite late. And that we know which other teams want him... Although, the higher our own pick, the easier it would be. We got a long way to go till June though, lots can happen.

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11-22-2012, 07:51 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by ALine View Post
Just spent spent some time looking up Barkov, and man does he look like a real good player already. From what I can tell he looks like he could step into the NHL next year with little trouble. I agree with previous posters, definitely getting a little Sundin vibe. Seems to project to be quite a similar player. I wasn't sold on any of the center men drafted last June(Galy, Grig, Forsberg). This should be the time to fill a much needed hole that is next to impossible to fill by trade, and very difficult to fill by signing a guy(watch us sign Getzlaf).

Now, Barkov is unlikely to just fall into our laps at whichever pick we end up at. The past has shown, junior players playing overseas, even whiledominating a men's league, tend to fall. This will be necessary in order to get Barkov. If hes top four or five, it won't happen because it will take a Kessel or Rielly, which would be stupid to give up. Of he's goes in the six the ten range, a nice package of picks/prospects and less prominante roster players could be used to acquire him, especially if its a Center strong team that is due to pick him. This is assuming (hoping) we pick quite late. And that we know which other teams want him... Although, the higher our own pick, the easier it would be. We got a long way to go till June though, lots can happen.

I really don't think there's any way that Barkov falls out of the top three other than injuries or if he really starts to slow down. PPG in Finlands top MEN'S league is ridiculous. I can still see MacKinnon ahead of him, and he'll be neck and neck for 2nd with Jones

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11-22-2012, 08:37 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Right now other than the big 2, I would be estastic if we got Monahan, Nichuskin, or Pulock. I am looking for the BPA, not the best player to fit a position. But an impact player. I don't know enough about Barkov except from his stats and highlights. If he were playing in another league I would be more comfortable he is all they are saying he is on hockey boards. Need to see him against players we know, I have him fairly high at #5, could be higher after the Worlds.
The only dman I think deserves top 5 recognition is Jones. Pulock just isn't that strong to be warranted that high. Top 10 without a doubt. Top 5? Not a chance. Sorry, but he isn't stronger than Barkov, Lindholm, or Monahan.

I cannot justify taking him over those players. He just isn't the BPA player there. I know you're a fanboy of him, but that doesn't make him BPA.

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11-22-2012, 08:39 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
Think about the possibility of trade returns we could get if these young guys force our hand too. We'll have plenty of youthful players who are looking to crack the Leafs at the back end. We'll be forced to be move some because Burke doesn't like holding players back.. And that will in turn, boost our forward spot or even goaltending... That's why BPA is always the best way to draft.
He's not disagreeing with BPA. He's saying go for it. But he's saying that he thinks the BPA this year lies primarily with forwards this year and wanting Pulock as high as Interactif is saying is going against BPA. Very much like he said grabbing Forsberg at top 5 was going against the BPA last year.

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11-22-2012, 08:44 AM
  #335
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I really don't think there's any way that Barkov falls out of the top three other than injuries or if he really starts to slow down. PPG in Finlands top MEN'S league is ridiculous. I can still see MacKinnon ahead of him, and he'll be neck and neck for 2nd with Jones
It's not just ridiculous, it's unprecedented at his age. PPG as a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga hasn't ever happened before. It's incredible.

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11-22-2012, 08:54 AM
  #336
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I shake my head at BPA, as it really is in the eyes of the beholder. There'd be very little need for teams to have large scouting staffs, the league could do it if it was so straight forward as BPA. Could cut a lot of costs, for all teams, just have a Central Scouting Staff and allocate players to teams based on standings.

BPA 1 goes to 30th. place team
BPA 2 goes to 29th. place team
...

Just take a player and say you liked him and drop the BPA charade.

We all know it doesn't turn out BPA was taken anyway. Just look at the results.

I took Kadri because I liked his game and character. BPA who the heck knows.

And no way should the Leafs be in discussion for a top 5 pick. They can't be as inept as the Islanders and Oilers can they?

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11-22-2012, 09:00 AM
  #337
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Just spent spent some time looking up Barkov, and man does he look like a real good player already. From what I can tell he looks like he could step into the NHL next year with little trouble. I agree with previous posters, definitely getting a little Sundin vibe. Seems to project to be quite a similar player. I wasn't sold on any of the center men drafted last June(Galy, Grig, Forsberg). This should be the time to fill a much needed hole that is next to impossible to fill by trade, and very difficult to fill by signing a guy(watch us sign Getzlaf).

Now, Barkov is unlikely to just fall into our laps at whichever pick we end up at. The past has shown, junior players playing overseas, even whiledominating a men's league, tend to fall. This will be necessary in order to get Barkov. If hes top four or five, it won't happen because it will take a Kessel or Rielly, which would be stupid to give up. Of he's goes in the six the ten range, a nice package of picks/prospects and less prominante roster players could be used to acquire him, especially if its a Center strong team that is due to pick him. This is assuming (hoping) we pick quite late. And that we know which other teams want him... Although, the higher our own pick, the easier it would be. We got a long way to go till June though, lots can happen.
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
It's not just ridiculous, it's unprecedented at his age. PPG as a 17 year old in the SM-Liiga hasn't ever happened before. It's incredible.
That's what I meant by ridiculous, that its unheard of.

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11-22-2012, 09:09 AM
  #338
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I shake my head at BPA, as it really is in the eyes of the beholder. There'd be very little need for teams to have large scouting staffs, the league could do it if it was so straight forward as BPA. Could cut a lot of costs, for all teams, just have a Central Scouting Staff and allocate players to teams based on standings.

BPA 1 goes to 30th. place team
BPA 2 goes to 29th. place team
...

Just take a player and say you liked him and drop the BPA charade.

We all know it doesn't turn out BPA was taken anyway. Just look at the results.

I took Kadri because I liked his game and character. BPA who the heck knows.

And no way should the Leafs be in discussion for a top 5 pick. They can't be as inept as the Islanders and Oilers can they?
BPA is completely subjective, and often times, needs are involved in determining it.

This year, BPA = forward..... ALMOST certainly. If we sat at 2, with Barkov and Jones there, it's an absolute no-brainer to take Barkov.

He could've gone #1 easily, and because of the Rielly/Finn/Percy picks, you have the luxioury of taking the bigger need in this case.

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11-22-2012, 11:14 AM
  #339
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The only dman I think deserves top 5 recognition is Jones. Pulock just isn't that strong to be warranted that high. Top 10 without a doubt. Top 5? Not a chance. Sorry, but he isn't stronger than Barkov, Lindholm, or Monahan.

I cannot justify taking him over those players. He just isn't the BPA player there. I know you're a fanboy of him, but that doesn't make him BPA.
And you are a fanboy of Barkov. :laugh

And everyone on here was a Gally fanboy last year, except me, man I am glad the Habs passed on Rielly.

I knew Burke wouldn't draft a Russian or even a half one.

Comeone man, we all have our favorites, mostly because we all see different things in a prospect we love.

Pulock is the best offensive D man in the draft, that is an impact prospect to me. He's so good he is outscoring Rielly, Murray, and Dumba this year. That's impactful when you look at the D in the WHL.

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11-22-2012, 11:25 AM
  #340
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BPA is completely subjective, and often times, needs are involved in determining it.

This year, BPA = forward..... ALMOST certainly. If we sat at 2, with Barkov and Jones there, it's an absolute no-brainer to take Barkov.

He could've gone #1 easily, and because of the Rielly/Finn/Percy picks, you have the luxioury of taking the bigger need in this case.
Best player available is not subjective you guys, it's simple, you are drafting the best player you believe that is, regardless of position.

What's subjective about this?

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11-22-2012, 11:27 AM
  #341
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RLR has Drouin now for number two after Jones, Mackinnon at number 3.

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11-22-2012, 11:31 AM
  #342
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Best player available is not subjective you guys, it's simple, you are drafting the best player you believe that is, regardless of position.

What's subjective about this?
There is so much wrong with this statement. Unless you know of a quantifiable, objective means to rank draft eligible players, the entire draft process will always be subjective.

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11-22-2012, 11:35 AM
  #343
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So MacKinnon isn't a slamdunk for #1 Overall?

He still is for me. When the dust clears, I surmise he will be last man still standing.

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11-22-2012, 11:36 AM
  #344
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Pulock is the best offensive D man in the draft, that is an impact prospect to me. He's so good he is outscoring Rielly, Murray, and Dumba this year. That's impactful when you look at the D in the WHL.
He's also one of the eldest amongst his draft class and has more games played (therefore further in development) than Reilly. Not trying to start another argument, also not trying to bash Pulock (hes a top 10 on my list), just trying to put things in perspective.

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11-22-2012, 11:36 AM
  #345
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There is so much wrong with this statement. Unless you know of a quantifiable, objective means to rank draft eligible players, the entire draft process will always be subjective.
You are making this way more complicated than it truly is, BPA, means exactly that. You are drafting the best player regardless of need or position.

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11-22-2012, 11:42 AM
  #346
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He's also one of the eldest amongst his draft class and has more games played (therefore further in development) than Reilly. Not trying to start another argument, also not trying to bash Pulock (hes a top 10 on my list), just trying to put things in perspective.
Only 1 guy is ahead of Pouliot and Pulock(who are basically tied) in scoring for the stacked WHL and he is 20, Pouliot plays on a very good team.

If there is a small complaint I have of Rielly, is for all the offence he seemingly generates, the points are not reflecting this.

Any prospect we like is a longshot ending up on our team, But I do think Pulock would be a perfect partner for Morgan, he generates offence in terms of tangible stats ie. goals and assists. Something that has alluded Morgan of late I notice, despite being very evident in the highlight films.

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11-22-2012, 11:44 AM
  #347
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Only 1 guy is ahead of Pouliot and Pulock(who are basically tied) in scoring for the stacked WHL and he is 20.

If there is a small complaint I have of Rielly, is for all the offence he seemingly generates, the points are not reflecting this.

Any prospect we like is a longshot ending up on our team, But I do think Pulock would be a perfect partner for Morgan, he generates offence in terms of tsngible stats ie. goals and assists. Something that has alluded Morgan of late I notice, despite being very evident in the highlight films.
I really have no idea what your trying to say here

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11-22-2012, 11:50 AM
  #348
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I really have no idea what your trying to say here
Moose Jaw has been terrible this year and therefore Rielly sucks. Or something.

Morgan "Seemingly Good at Offence but Not Actually" Rielly.

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11-22-2012, 11:57 AM
  #349
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RLR has Drouin now for number two after Jones, Mackinnon at number 3.
No way in hell does Drouin go #1. He probably doesn't go top 5.


These guys must be looking at majority stats to rank their guys, cuz it's well known that MacKinnon is a superior player AND prospect.

Barkov has to be in the top 3 as well, the package he brings is too good.

My personal top 9

MacKinnon
Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Lindholm
Drouin
Nicushkin(sp?)
Shinkaruk
Pulock

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11-22-2012, 11:58 AM
  #350
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I really have no idea what your trying to say here
What is confusing?

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