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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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11-28-2012, 01:08 PM
  #551
scottcwheeler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funk Volume View Post
Where do you see Hunter Garlent going? Old friend of mine, went to grade school together. He's a good kid.


Also, Barkov should be at #2, with Jones at 3 and Monahan 4. Drouin at 5 is okay, but Lindholm should be at 6 with Shinkaruk at 7. Just my opinion.
Garlent (along with Kujawinski), is one of the two players I'm keeping a close eye on. He was a standout in Minor Midget and he has an excellent release. As mentionned in the article, his early season injury will likely push him down in the draft (perhaps into the second round) but he'll be a steal that late and had an excellent start to the season. I'm big on him.

My ranking of Monahan at #3 is solely due to his ability to play at both ends, something many top prospects don't yet grasp, although Barkov has a strong two-way game as well. Time will tell.

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11-28-2012, 01:15 PM
  #552
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A note about the Lupul trade/draft picks

Some draft junkies might find this of interest

A condition on the Lupul trade was that if he played at least 40 games during the 2012-13 season, the Leafs would receive a 4th round pick from Anaheim - if he fails to play 40 games that pick becomes a 6th rounder

We will have a good sense of where this pick might be in the coming 2 months provided he plays a full season


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NHL_Entry_Draft

Toronto will receive a fourth-round pick if Joffrey Lupul is on the roster for 40 or more 201213 season games with the club. If he is not, Toronto will receive a sixth-round pick.

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11-28-2012, 01:15 PM
  #553
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Barkov is better than Monahan and possibly Jones imo. Nichushkin should be higher if this were based on talent alone, but the Russian factor comes into play. Pulock should be higher than Nurse.

Good list though.
Nurse has that size, something that gives him a leg up on Pulock IMO. They both play on awful teams but when Nurse fills out more (Pulock already has), he'll be a steady top 4 defenseman without a doubt. Rasmus can't be forgotten either, he was outstanding last year.

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11-28-2012, 01:16 PM
  #554
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on an unrelated note to Toronto - Colombus will have 3 first rounders for the 2013 draft

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11-28-2012, 01:17 PM
  #555
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There is probably a further hidden clause about 'in the event of a lockout' that just never got reported since at the time of the trade it wasn't seen as an issue.

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11-28-2012, 01:18 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by scottcwheeler View Post
Nurse has that size, something that gives him a leg up on Pulock IMO. They both play on awful teams but when Nurse fills out more (Pulock already has), he'll be a steady top 4 defenseman without a doubt. Rasmus can't be forgotten either, he was outstanding last year.
Yeah I'd put Rasmus over Pulock and Nurse.

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11-28-2012, 01:32 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by scottcwheeler View Post
Garlent (along with Kujawinski), is one of the two players I'm keeping a close eye on. He was a standout in Minor Midget and he has an excellent release. As mentionned in the article, his early season injury will likely push him down in the draft (perhaps into the second round) but he'll be a steal that late and had an excellent start to the season. I'm big on him.

My ranking of Monahan at #3 is solely due to his ability to play at both ends, something many top prospects don't yet grasp, although Barkov has a strong two-way game as well. Time will tell.
That seems an odd reason to put Monahan up above Barkov, especially since you've already stated Barkov has a strong two-way game (in a better league). Nitpicking I guess, and most know I'm a Barkov fanboy, but it seems weird IMO.

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11-28-2012, 01:41 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That seems an odd reason to put Monahan up above Barkov, especially since you've already stated Barkov has a strong two-way game (in a better league). Nitpicking I guess, and most know I'm a Barkov fanboy, but it seems weird IMO.
Monahan's two way game, for me, is stronger than Barkov's -- and unmatched among the top centres. That was my point. Both players are stronger defensively than the Shinkaruks, Drouins and MacKinnons of the draft though. Great compete levels and maturity certainly helps. I'm huge on Monahan, he's doing it by himself in Ottawa too.

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11-28-2012, 01:42 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That seems an odd reason to put Monahan up above Barkov, especially since you've already stated Barkov has a strong two-way game (in a better league). Nitpicking I guess, and most know I'm a Barkov fanboy, but it seems weird IMO.
It's because he is Canadian. That's the only reason. Barkov is a way better player.

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11-28-2012, 01:45 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by scottcwheeler View Post
Just to clear a few things up. We've had some great feedback on the articles and we've also had some who seem to dismiss us (partially because we're new and partially because they claim we're hungry for views). The WeWantACup account (Matteo Codispoti) is attempting to generate discussion through the articles and while we're new (just figuring out HFBoards, myself), I'm all for debating and talking hockey and I challenge each and every one of you to both read and push my articles.

So with that. Let's talk and to respond to the "who'd you pick where comment", here's my early rankings of this years class:

1. Nathan MacKinnon - C
2. Seth Jones - D
3. Sean Monahan - C
4. Aleksander Barkov - C
5. Jonathan Drouin - C
6. Hunter Shinkaruk - C
7. Elias Lindholm – C
8. Curtis Lazar - C
9. Darnell Nurse - D
10. Ryan Pulock - D
11. Rasmus Ristolainen - D
12. Valeri Nichushkin - LW
13. Andre Burakovsky - RW
14. Joshua Morrissey - D
15. Nikita Zadorov - D
16. Max Domi - C
17. Arturri Lehkonen - LW
18. Zachary Fucale - G
19. Kerby Rychel - LW
20. Adam Erne - LW

Ten more to watch : Ryan Kujawinski, Bo Horvat, JT Compher, Jacob de la Rose, Robert Hagg, Shea Theodore, Spencer Martin, Fredrick Gauthier, Hunter Garlent, Anthony Duclair.

Who would you guys place differently? Feel free to ask me about any of the prospects (been watching the OHL players since their Minor Midget AAA years)?

Since you have Monahan ahead of Barkov, can you give us your thoughts on how the two compare? Thanks.


EDIT: nevermind, didn't see your response to this question already.

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11-28-2012, 01:47 PM
  #561
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It's because he is Canadian. That's the only reason. Barkov is a way better player.
It most certainly has nothing to do with nationality. Both are exceptional talents and locks to go in the top 5 but as the season progresses we'll get a better idea. It's early.

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11-28-2012, 02:01 PM
  #562
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It would be awesome to get some reviews on how Jones has played recently. It's somewhat concering a little that Portland is absolutely murdering teams lately and Seth really hasnt generated many points in that period but again you never know how a guy has really played in those games unless you watchd.

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11-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by scottcwheeler View Post
Nurse has that size, something that gives him a leg up on Pulock IMO. They both play on awful teams but when Nurse fills out more (Pulock already has), he'll be a steady top 4 defenseman without a doubt. Rasmus can't be forgotten either, he was outstanding last year.
I like this analysis. Nurse is already a better skater than Pulock, so I like his skill set a bit better. Two huge things Nurse has going for him is that you can't teach big and you can't teach mean.

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11-28-2012, 02:05 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
You missed the point. There aren't very many Russians drafted in into the NHL.

TOTALS FOR ENTIRE DRAFT:

2009: 7 players
2010: 8 players
2011: 9 players
2012: 12 players

Chances are slim of any team drafting a Russian due to the limited quantity available, not necessarily a national prejudice.
Well with 36 Russians and 30 teams, statistically every team should have drafted at least one Russian in that time frame.

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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
33% of our top 6, aka scoring lines, are Russian. That is more then many teams can say
Talk about using numbers to skew the facts. We have 2 Russians (including Grabo) on our entire roster.

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Originally Posted by SarcazemKadri View Post
Burke, himself, has resigned both players. If the odds were they were to be moved, or he would rather not employ Russian-born players, would it not have been smart to trade them at the deadline for North American draft prospects?
Kulemin plays a very North American game, I'm not surprised that Burke likes him. Grabo, well I'm sure Burke likes him too, but lets face it Burke is in no position to trade away our only top 6 center.

We are talking about tendancies here, I doubt Burke would draft a Russian, or half Russian player with a high pick...the higher the pick the more likely it will be North American. There would have to be a huge separation to the next prospect, like going from Malkin to Barker for Burke to take the Russian. If the Leafs are holding 2nd overall I think Burke would take Jones or Monahan over Barkov, I'll gladly take bets if that situation arises.

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11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
  #565
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I just want to make something clear, I'm not saying Burke would never draft a Russian. What I'm saying is that the Russian will have to be in a distinctly higher tier than the others in the mix. If we're choosing between Barkov, Monahan, Jones...I'd bet the farm that he takes Monahan or Jones with all those being in a similar tier at this stage, if Barkov slips then he gets consideration.

If the North American is in the same tier, he will be the BPA for Burke in my not so humble opinion.

I don't know a lot about Barkov yet, but from what I've heard I'm surprised he's not in the mix with Nate Mac for 1st overall.

And yeah, I think that players like Barkov and Galchenyuk fall into the Russian category for Burke...

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11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
  #566
Bernier the Boats
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Well with 36 Russians and 30 teams, statistically every team should have drafted at least one Russian in that time frame.

There is absolutely no correlation between those two things. None. Not even a little bit.


Talk about using numbers to skew the facts. We have 2 Russians (including Grabo) on our entire roster.

Still more Russians than the average NHL team. He isn't saying Burke is overly sympathetic to Russians, he's saying he's indifferent towards nationality. HUGE difference.

Kulemin plays a very North American game, I'm not surprised that Burke likes him. Grabo, well I'm sure Burke likes him too, but lets face it Burke is in no position to trade away our only top 6 center.

We are talking about tendancies here, I doubt Burke would draft a Russian, or half Russian player with a high pick...the higher the pick the more likely it will be North American. There would have to be a huge separation to the next prospect, like going from Malkin to Barker for Burke to take the Russian. If the Leafs are holding 2nd overall I think Burke would take Jones or Monahan over Barkov, I'll gladly take bets if that situation arises.


Kessel plays a very Russian game. You can't discount Kulemin's nationality because he plays a "North American" game. Burke is indifferent towards a players nationality, so the last part of your quote is a farce.
Responses posted under.

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11-28-2012, 02:55 PM
  #567
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I'm taking bets on draft day folks

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11-28-2012, 03:13 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I'm bored of this "Burke does or doesn't like" talk, so let's move onto something else.

So let's say we don't get a top 5 pick, and we place in one of the following spots. Who do you take?

9th?

12th-15th?

21st-24th?

28th-30th?

Who do you take in the 2nd round if we are early, mid or late ranked?
9th: I'd love Nichuskin, but Lazar or Burakovsky would be the choice of Burke and co.

12th - 15th: 1st choice Burakovsky, 2nd choice Erne.

21st - 24th: 1st choice Fucale, 2nd choice Mantha.

28th - Beyond: Any player who drops out of the middle of the pack

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11-28-2012, 03:19 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I'm bored of this "Burke does or doesn't like" talk, so let's move onto something else.

So let's say we don't get a top 5 pick, and we place in one of the following spots. Who do you take?

9th?

12th-15th?

21st-24th?

28th-30th?

Who do you take in the 2nd round if we are early, mid or late ranked?
9th = Shinkaruk if he's around or Lazar/Pulock.

12th-15th = Adame Erne/anyone that fell or Max Domi

21st-24th = Zach Fucale or Josh Morrissey

28th-30th = Bo Horvat or Jacob de la Rose

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11-28-2012, 03:53 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by scottcwheeler View Post
Monahan's two way game, for me, is stronger than Barkov's -- and unmatched among the top centres. That was my point. Both players are stronger defensively than the Shinkaruks, Drouins and MacKinnons of the draft though. Great compete levels and maturity certainly helps. I'm huge on Monahan, he's doing it by himself in Ottawa too.
That's fair although I'm not sure I would agree with you on that. But I'd probably say the difference isn't entirely huge either way.

Personally to me, everything you can say about Monohan, you can say it better about Barkov. He's got the strong two-way game, which to me is at least equal to Monohan's, he got an incredible compete level and high maturity for such a young player (especially in a men's league). Plus just like Monohan, he's doing it all by himself in Tappara. Barkov to me is the better player now, and has the higher upside.

And that's nothing against Monohan, he's a fantastic player and prospect, but I think Barkov is just better.

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11-28-2012, 04:09 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That's fair although I'm not sure I would agree with you on that. But I'd probably say the difference isn't entirely huge either way.

Personally to me, everything you can say about Monohan, you can say it better about Barkov. He's got the strong two-way game, which to me is at least equal to Monohan's, he got an incredible compete level and high maturity for such a young player (especially in a men's league). Plus just like Monohan, he's doing it all by himself in Tappara. Barkov to me is the better player now, and has the higher upside.

And that's nothing against Monohan, he's a fantastic player and prospect, but I think Barkov is just better.
I second this.

MacKinnon/Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Drouin

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11-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
I second this.

MacKinnon/Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Drouin
Out of curiosity why would you put MacKinnon/Barkov at the top. Is there any chance you would actually go up to the podium and pick Barkov over MacKinnon in front of the whole world?

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11-28-2012, 06:12 PM
  #573
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I second this.

MacKinnon/Barkov
Jones
Monahan
Drouin
Pretty much agree, although I'd seperate the top 3 from everyone else. I'd still include Jones with Barkov/MacKinnon. While I think Barkov can challenge for the top spot, I very much think it's a three horse race and it's anyone's game at this point in the season.

These three here are franchise potential stars. All three have that deep desire to win and get better and they all have the "it" factor. MacKinnon has the ability to just dominate offensively, doing everything well and just so difficult to defend against. Jones has the killer puck moving skill to go with good skating and great size, a package that could give you a perrenial Norris winner. Barkov has the cerebral calm about his offence and just makes things happen, plus is fantastically adept on the defensive side and has the body size to go with a puck possession game reminiscent of Sundin.

As good as Monohan, Lindholm, Shinkaruk, Nichushkin, Drouin are I just think these three are on a whole other level.

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11-28-2012, 07:03 PM
  #574
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Out of curiosity why would you put MacKinnon/Barkov at the top. Is there any chance you would actually go up to the podium and pick Barkov over MacKinnon in front of the whole world?
A big chance

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11-28-2012, 07:16 PM
  #575
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Out of curiosity why would you put MacKinnon/Barkov at the top. Is there any chance you would actually go up to the podium and pick Barkov over MacKinnon in front of the whole world?
You move the 1st overall pick to drop down and then pick Barkov. I think you could still pick him while moving the 1st overall.

But then that just adds a LOAD of pressure on any player the Leafs pick after that. He would forever be linked to how that 1st overall's career goes.

There could be a strong case for Barkov at 1, but it's hard to put him there IMO right now. MacKinnon is just as young and has an impressive game on NA ice. Age for me is a big factor in assessing these players - both have performed extremely well in their respective leagues.

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