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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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12-04-2012, 12:27 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Its all hypotheticals at this point, who knows how players would play in different leagues. In looking purely at skill set and not just numbers I think Barkov is a step behind MacKinnon and Jones, and is in the same class to me as Lindholm/Monahan.

And skating is absolutely huge in the NHL. It's between skating and hockey IQ that is the most important attribute.
Skating can be improved much more easily than IQ can. In fact IQ can't be improved. Barkov has IQ in spades. Even if he can't improve his skating (which is unlikely, the jump he took from last year to this year points towards him continuing to improve), he's got the skillset and size to be incredibly effective still.

I don't agree with you. I think your putting too much on his skating (which really isn't all that bad to begin with) and not giving him credit to the accomplishments he has. At the very least he's better than Monahan and Lindholm and at a higher level than them.

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12-04-2012, 01:25 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Skating can be improved much more easily than IQ can. In fact IQ can't be improved. Barkov has IQ in spades. Even if he can't improve his skating (which is unlikely, the jump he took from last year to this year points towards him continuing to improve), he's got the skillset and size to be incredibly effective still.

I don't agree with you. I think your putting too much on his skating (which really isn't all that bad to begin with) and not giving him credit to the accomplishments he has. At the very least he's better than Monahan and Lindholm and at a higher level than them.
That's a very exciting point. It is possible to improve skating. Look at how much more dominant Stamkos and Tavares have become after their skating improved.

I like the Kopitar comparison best for Barkov. Maybe I'm just very high on Monahan/Lindholm (who seem like Staal/Backström to me), but thats where I think he fits in best. There's a good chance he will be the best out of those 3, but MacKinnon and Jones have been hyped as 1st overall potential candidates for a long time. In MacKinnon's case, 8 years. I just can't fathom anyone actually going up to the podium and calling a name other than Nathan MacKinnon as the first overall selection.

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12-04-2012, 01:55 PM
  #703
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One shouldn't expect a kid who is 17 years old, 6'4" already, and still growing to be "explosive" yet as a skater. The other thing to keep in mind, is that often big guys don't look explosive, but move very quickly because of their longer strides and size. We are also comparing MacKinnon and Monahan's speeds, to those around them... other kids, while we are comparing Barkov to those around him... grown men. Is this a fair comparison, to say Barkov doesn't blow men away, the way that MacKinnon skates around kids?

Let's see how their skating looks in the WJC, at least we know Mac and Barkov should be there.

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12-04-2012, 02:19 PM
  #704
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Erik Johnson looked like a total beast before screwing up his knee and he's never been as dynamic since. In Johnsons first season in the NHL he put up 33pts in only 69 games and was looking like a future Norris candidate. Its easy to say in hindsight but the player you see today isnt the same player who went #1 overall or the guy who stepped into the NHL and was awesome. Some guys get knee injuries and bounce right back 100% and then some get knee injuries and are just never the same.

You dont get the hype around Jones? Lets see, The guy is 6'4, he is a great skater, has great hockeysense and is good at both ends of the ice. He does things at his size that you just dont usually see from guys of that size that when he matures and puts on some weight hes going to be a 3 zone beast. Jones is currently on pace to put up a season around 50pts so I dont quite understand why you say he doesnt have the offense to be selected 1st overall.

Jones skillset is by far the most exciting in this draft imo. If I had to compare him to a current NHL'er it'd be Pietrangelo.
People always seem to forget that Johnson missed an entire year because of that injury and that was the most likely reason he never reached his potential. And he's still a top line dman on Colorado (and a pretty good one by what Av fans say).

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Seth Jones is a yearly prospect. Defensemen picked in the top 5 don't have a good track record at all. The 6'4 would be a pro if he wasn't playing against teenagers. I'll gladly pick any one of Barkov, MacKinnon, Monahan, and maybe even Drouin before I'll pick Jones at the top of this draft. I'd actually consider Pulock first, just because I have more faith in his projection. Major pass. #UnpopularOpinions
I would not consider any of them except Barkov and MacKinnon before Jones.

Your severely underrating Jones. His potential is higher than any dman maybe since Doughty/Pietrangelo. He just has everything you want in a dman. His high ranking is completely justified.

Past draft standards don't affect this one. It's great and all to say that past drafts have had dman that haven't hit their expected levels, but that doesn't mean anything for this draft. At all. Drafts don't have bearing on other drafts. They don't affect other drafts because players are different.

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12-04-2012, 02:29 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
That's a very exciting point. It is possible to improve skating. Look at how much more dominant Stamkos and Tavares have become after their skating improved.

I like the Kopitar comparison best for Barkov. Maybe I'm just very high on Monahan/Lindholm (who seem like Staal/Backström to me), but thats where I think he fits in best. There's a good chance he will be the best out of those 3, but MacKinnon and Jones have been hyped as 1st overall potential candidates for a long time. In MacKinnon's case, 8 years. I just can't fathom anyone actually going up to the podium and calling a name other than Nathan MacKinnon as the first overall selection.
Kopitar is a comparison I can live with but I ultimately don't think its perfect. I keep going back to Sundin, and maybe there is a little of me that wants it to be that way, but I ultimately think Barkov can be a better player than Kopitar. And while I like the Monohan to Staal comparisons, I honestly see Barkov as a player on a higher level.

Now I get your second point about MacKinnon being so hyped for so long it would be hard to fathom him not being one. And I largely agree. As much as I talk about Barkov being a threat for number 1, I think this will be like every other year when the top guy gets talked about dropping but doesn't actually. However I legitimately think Barkov and Jones are the only two players in this draft that can challenge him. I can't see Monohan or Lindholm doing that.

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12-04-2012, 03:41 PM
  #706
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hopefully they can adjust the lost season lottery odds cause i don't like the idea of only 3 balls vs everyone having at least 1

no reason why any team that has been in the top 3rd of the standings the last 2 or 3 years should have any chance at the top pick or really top 5/10

A top 5 pick in this draft would be huge for the Leafs
They should put together a standings based on total winning % since the beginning of the CBA, and come up with a list of 1 to 30, then just apply the regular lottery rules based on those standings.

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12-04-2012, 05:16 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
They should put together a standings based on total winning % since the beginning of the CBA, and come up with a list of 1 to 30, then just apply the regular lottery rules based on those standings.
As long as any team that has had a first overall in that timeframe can't win the lottery

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12-04-2012, 05:20 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Kopitar is a comparison I can live with but I ultimately don't think its perfect. I keep going back to Sundin, and maybe there is a little of me that wants it to be that way, but I ultimately think Barkov can be a better player than Kopitar. And while I like the Monohan to Staal comparisons, I honestly see Barkov as a player on a higher level.

Now I get your second point about MacKinnon being so hyped for so long it would be hard to fathom him not being one. And I largely agree. As much as I talk about Barkov being a threat for number 1, I think this will be like every other year when the top guy gets talked about dropping but doesn't actually. However I legitimately think Barkov and Jones are the only two players in this draft that can challenge him. I can't see Monohan or Lindholm doing that.
Sundin is a lot bigger and has a plus shot.

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12-04-2012, 05:26 PM
  #709
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Sundin is a lot bigger and has a plus shot.

Barkov is 17 lol

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12-04-2012, 05:30 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Sundin is a lot bigger and has a plus shot.
A lot of Finns who watch him regularly believe he's a lot closer to 6 foot 4 right now. Plus Barkov has a killer shot.

But yeah, maybe I'm trying to make a comparison that isn't there.

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12-04-2012, 05:35 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
A lot of Finns who watch him regularly believe he's a lot closer to 6 foot 4 right now. Plus Barkov has a killer shot.

But yeah, maybe I'm trying to make a comparison that isn't there.
Even if he is a Kopitar-type, I would be ecstatic. Can you imagine Kopitar in between Kessel and Lups? Omg.

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12-04-2012, 05:47 PM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
A lot of Finns who watch him regularly believe he's a lot closer to 6 foot 4 right now. Plus Barkov has a killer shot.

But yeah, maybe I'm trying to make a comparison that isn't there.
Sundin could beat goalies clean with a wrister from the top of the circle. I don't think Barkov has that kind of shot, and there is no evidence to show he is as clutch as Sundin was (Sundin's best quality IMO).

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12-04-2012, 06:03 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Sundin could beat goalies clean with a wrister from the top of the circle. I don't think Barkov has that kind of shot, and there is no evidence to show he is as clutch as Sundin was (Sundin's best quality IMO).
You're making a comparison between a 17 year old in Finland versus a Maple Leaf that played his entire career in front of an NHL television audience. There is a bit of bias there.

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12-04-2012, 06:52 PM
  #714
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You're making a comparison between a 17 year old in Finland versus a Maple Leaf that played his entire career in front of an NHL television audience. There is a bit of bias there.


It's called a player comparison. People use them to project prospects. If you watch the NHL draft, you will see them.

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12-04-2012, 07:17 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Sundin could beat goalies clean with a wrister from the top of the circle. I don't think Barkov has that kind of shot, and there is no evidence to show he is as clutch as Sundin was (Sundin's best quality IMO).
Barkov is just 17 year old. Show me the evidence about Sundins clutchness at 17 year old or younger? I would say that Barkov has one of the best shots in the draft and could develope into elite range once he get stronger. How many times you have seen Barkov to make statements which are far from truth?

Barkov as 16 year old and it was game tying goal in the last minute of the game at 1.13, watch the slow motions so you will get clear picture from velocity of that shot:


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12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #716
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I don't think Sundin's shot was that great when he was young either tbh. He become more of a shooter as his career progressed, realizing that the odds of a goal were always better with him taking the shot. Mats was a beanpole at 17, while this Barkov is a man-child.

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12-05-2012, 02:11 AM
  #717
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Seth Jones 3 assists tonight.

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12-05-2012, 07:17 AM
  #718
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Barkov is just 17 year old. Show me the evidence about Sundins clutchness at 17 year old or younger? I would say that Barkov has one of the best shots in the draft and could develope into elite range once he get stronger. How many times you have seen Barkov to make statements which are far from truth?

Barkov as 16 year old and it was game tying goal in the last minute of the game at 1.13, watch the slow motions so you will get clear picture from velocity of that shot:

Watching the highlights of Barkov, I can honestly say I don't get excited about this kid as I do when I see Mackinnon play. Call it charisma or whatever, but Mackinnon gives that to me.

However, I will give the kid a shot when he plays for Team Finland, some players have that it factor. Toews and Huberdeau are 2 you notice instantly whenever they hit the ice. I will know almost instantly if Barkov has it when we see him against the good teams at the Worlds.

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12-05-2012, 07:39 AM
  #719
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Anyone else hear "Monahan, Monahan" like "Monorail, Monorail" from the Simpsons everytime they hear or read about Monahan? I sure do! When they are chanting it, not singing.

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12-05-2012, 09:15 AM
  #720
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Originally Posted by Dark Passenger View Post
They should put together a standings based on total winning % since the beginning of the CBA, and come up with a list of 1 to 30, then just apply the regular lottery rules based on those standings.
that seems fair and logical. only issue would be a team like Edmonton maybe something to apply a weight based on previous draft picks as well

basically anyway to improve the Leafs chance at a top pick

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12-05-2012, 12:09 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Watching the highlights of Barkov, I can honestly say I don't get excited about this kid as I do when I see Mackinnon play. Call it charisma or whatever, but Mackinnon gives that to me.

However, I will give the kid a shot when he plays for Team Finland, some players have that it factor. Toews and Huberdeau are 2 you notice instantly whenever they hit the ice. I will know almost instantly if Barkov has it when we see him against the good teams at the Worlds.
The real difference between MacKinnon and Barkov is speed. That Explosive first few steps.

Outside of that, Barkov protects the puck better, is more capable of a physical brand, due to his size, and scores dirty goals in the goal mouth. Did you mis him putting a wrister in the shelf, from just inside the blueline? He's got as good of a wrist/snap shot as anyone in the draft. Work on his release and his explosiveness will go a long way to determining just how high this kid can fly. The potential is there to be an absolute monster.

The only real difference I see, is that MacK has speed to burn.

We would be lucky to have either.

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12-05-2012, 01:04 PM
  #722
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If we don't get a top 5 this year , i may lose it.... Seems that the top 5 are likely superstars and the rest will take some solid scouting to find the gem.

My order has changed a bit

Mackinnon
Barkov
Monahan
Jones (if we needed D, he would be one higher)
Drouin

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12-05-2012, 01:15 PM
  #723
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People always seem to forget that Johnson missed an entire year because of that injury and that was the most likely reason he never reached his potential. And he's still a top line dman on Colorado (and a pretty good one by what Av fans say).



I would not consider any of them except Barkov and MacKinnon before Jones.

Your severely underrating Jones. His potential is higher than any dman maybe since Doughty/Pietrangelo. He just has everything you want in a dman. His high ranking is completely justified.

Past draft standards don't affect this one. It's great and all to say that past drafts have had dman that haven't hit their expected levels, but that doesn't mean anything for this draft. At all. Drafts don't have bearing on other drafts. They don't affect other drafts because players are different.
I probably am. Defensive defensemen are just like goalies -- they're hard to project. I'd much rather just grab a forward. I'd feel better, anyways. Lol.

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12-05-2012, 01:21 PM
  #724
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Would Jay Bouwmeester be a fair comparison for Jones?

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12-05-2012, 01:23 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Watching the highlights of Barkov, I can honestly say I don't get excited about this kid as I do when I see Mackinnon play. Call it charisma or whatever, but Mackinnon gives that to me.

However, I will give the kid a shot when he plays for Team Finland, some players have that it factor. Toews and Huberdeau are 2 you notice instantly whenever they hit the ice. I will know almost instantly if Barkov has it when we see him against the good teams at the Worlds.
I swear you are the most bipolar poster on this site. Last year Galchenyuk was too much flash for you, this year Barkov isn't enough. Make up your mind.

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