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12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
The NHL and NHLPA are world class when it comes to not getting a deal done. If there were awards for not making deals, NHL/NHLPA would win it hands down. There are people that get deals done and then there is the NHL and the NHLPA.
Agree with this. I have never seen two sides do more damage to a product than these two. There has to be more to the economics, ffrom both sides perspectives, that the public is not privy to... Because at this point, both sides look unreasonable. However, there is a nice little write up on ESPN this morning about the Goons of the lockout. Most prominently, Jeremy Jacobs, who in the article apparently made his lower level employees pay the 7,000 dollar tax on their Stanley Cup ring, and said to the crowd, and I quote, "Cam Neely brought us a cup, something he couldn't do as a player." This was at the Stanley Cup Parade!! It's not wonder the owners' position during this whole thing has been about taking more, and more, and more, when you have such a stooge as one of the main negotiators. Rather nauseating.

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12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
  #327
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Its Getting harder and harder to side with the nhlpa.

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12-06-2012, 01:40 PM
  #328
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Hard to believe that the entire negotiation might be hinged on term lengths, and the PA wanting MORE money on the Make-Whole agreement....

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12-06-2012, 01:55 PM
  #329
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Its Getting harder and harder to side with the nhlpa.
what happened

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12-06-2012, 02:16 PM
  #330
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The membership needs to tell their union reps that it is time to vote on what is on the table.

The 5-year contract limits and 5% variance is a hill on which most players do not want to die.

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12-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #331
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The membership needs to tell their union reps that it is time to vote on what is on the table.
QFT.

And I would also add that the FULL membership should vote, as it appears the players NOT in the meeting want to get the deal done more than the players IN the meeting that are being irritated by the owners' stance.

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12-06-2012, 03:47 PM
  #332
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dont understand why the bottom end and middle guys are such *****s, they gain nothing from what the two sides are still haggling over.....

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12-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #333
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I wondered when Fehr was going to step in on this whole thing...and then promptly take a 30 minute bathroom break followed by a 20 minute phone call break followed by 10 minutes of a meeting followed by 45 minutes of a meal break....

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12-06-2012, 04:19 PM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
I wondered when Fehr was going to step in on this whole thing...and then promptly take a 30 minute bathroom break followed by a 20 minute phone call break followed by 10 minutes of a meeting followed by 45 minutes of a meal break....
Don Fehr is already back to stalling by asking for the mediators to come back. I guess the NHLPA will enjoy another 15% cut from their pay tomorrow when the rest of December is cancelled.

I'm okay with the NHL cancelling the season mid-January if the NHLPA continues to move the goal posts whenever they are close to a deal. It would have been nice to see the Kings defend their Stanley Cup with the same roster, but the NHL isn't the biggest priority in my life.

If this gets settled and the NHL puts together a 48 game season, the NHLPA will have lost 41% of their pay this season. All because they didn't want an escrow hit of around 14% in year 1.

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12-06-2012, 04:53 PM
  #335
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Don Fehr is already back to stalling by asking for the mediators to come back. I guess the NHLPA will enjoy another 15% cut from their pay tomorrow when the rest of December is cancelled.

I'm okay with the NHL cancelling the season mid-January if the NHLPA continues to move the goal posts whenever they are close to a deal. It would have been nice to see the Kings defend their Stanley Cup with the same roster, but the NHL isn't the biggest priority in my life.

If this gets settled and the NHL puts together a 48 game season, the NHLPA will have lost 41% of their pay this season. All because they didn't want an escrow hit of around 14% in year 1.
Bettman totally outmaneuverd Donald Fehr with the players/owners only meeting, and now Fehr is trying to show him that he is still in control of the players.

Pretty pathetic.

I can't think of a single advantage that having Donald Fehr involved has brought to the NHLPA. They would have been much better off with Kelly.

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12-06-2012, 04:55 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Don Fehr is already back to stalling by asking for the mediators to come back. I guess the NHLPA will enjoy another 15% cut from their pay tomorrow when the rest of December is cancelled.

I'm okay with the NHL cancelling the season mid-January if the NHLPA continues to move the goal posts whenever they are close to a deal. It would have been nice to see the Kings defend their Stanley Cup with the same roster, but the NHL isn't the biggest priority in my life.

If this gets settled and the NHL puts together a 48 game season, the NHLPA will have lost 41% of their pay this season. All because they didn't want an escrow hit of around 14% in year 1.
The escrow hit is not the issue at this point. It's all term. They have walked away from so much money and they need to fix what they feel is an issue for the future.

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12-06-2012, 04:59 PM
  #337
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Bettman totally outmaneuverd Donald Fehr with the players/owners only meeting, and now Fehr is trying to show him that he is still in control of the players.

Pretty pathetic.

I can't think of a single advantage that having Donald Fehr involved has brought to the NHLPA. They would have been much better off with Kelly.
I wouldn't give GB the credit on that. I believe he did that to work over the players emotionaly and pull the plug, thus making the players cave and not ask for anything back because they expected to lace 'em up. Things went well but if there is another snag all GB has to do now is say here is our final offer, take it or leave it. The players will take it because they are emotional. Their wives are emotional.

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12-06-2012, 05:05 PM
  #338
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In regards to GB, I guarantee that whthere there is games or not this year the NHL will make him a martyr and sacrafice him to the fans. It will be a thanks, here is a parting gift, now please go away situation.

That is the first thing that I would do if I was a PR director of the NHL in order to get the fans back. GB is absolutely hated by the fans. He is hated by the players. He has made some verbal blunders to the media that no other professional would do and it's bit him in the ass. He has been disrespectfull directly and indirectly to the players. He has created a contentiousness where the players believe they can't trust a thing he ever says or his intentions. GB is an assasin and he has done exactly what he was hired to do. Every war needs a man to get his hands dirty and GB was that man. I'm not knocking him but he will have to be sacraficed as the first step to getting the fans and the sponsors back.

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12-06-2012, 05:06 PM
  #339
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I think a deal will get done, just think the players are trying to get some last minute goodies.

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12-06-2012, 05:56 PM
  #340
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So is Donald Fehr being delusional or are they actually closing in on a deal?

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12-06-2012, 05:57 PM
  #341
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So is Donald Fehr being delusional or are they actually closing in on a deal?
Was there an update. I'm not following atm.

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12-06-2012, 06:07 PM
  #342
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In regards to GB, I guarantee that whthere there is games or not this year the NHL will make him a martyr and sacrafice him to the fans. It will be a thanks, here is a parting gift, now please go away situation.

That is the first thing that I would do if I was a PR director of the NHL in order to get the fans back. GB is absolutely hated by the fans. He is hated by the players. He has made some verbal blunders to the media that no other professional would do and it's bit him in the ass. He has been disrespectfull directly and indirectly to the players. He has created a contentiousness where the players believe they can't trust a thing he ever says or his intentions. GB is an assasin and he has done exactly what he was hired to do. Every war needs a man to get his hands dirty and GB was that man. I'm not knocking him but he will have to be sacraficed as the first step to getting the fans and the sponsors back.
you again?
provide quotes for your claims, please?

Tannenberg and Chipman (Toronto and Jets ownership) left the meetings because they got fed up with Fehr...
Also media blunders? Who was calling out the league bluffing, didn't start negotiating till 2weeks before the training camps should've started and proposed not calculated verbal deals with fixed dollar raises?
Btw, today Fehr tried to stall the negotiations by talking about bringing back the mediators...
That has been reported by several respected media guys that own twitter...

Stop being such a HOMER. Even fricken Adrian Dater doesn't bite anymore from Fehrs propaganda.

Bettman via his proposed players/owners only meeting managed to get Fehr for two days away from the negotiations and the two sides actually got closer.

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12-06-2012, 06:10 PM
  #343
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you again?
provide quotes for your claims, please?

Tannenberg and Chipman (Toronto and Jets ownership) left the meetings because they got fed up with Fehr...
Also media blunders? Who was calling out the league bluffing, didn't start negotiating till 2weeks before the training camps should've started and proposed not calculated verbal deals with fixed dollar raises?
Btw, today Fehr tried to stall the negotiations by talking about bringing back the mediators...
That has been reported by several respected media guys that own twitter...

Stop being such a HOMER. Even fricken Adrian Dater doesn't bite anymore from Fehrs propaganda.

Bettman via his proposed players/owners only meeting managed to get Fehr for two days away from the negotiations and the two sides actually got closer.
What the **** are you talking about? What claims are you talking about? Seriously, stop painting me in a corner that I am not standing. Seriously, how did this post have anything to do with my alliegiences?

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12-06-2012, 06:42 PM
  #344
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What the **** are you talking about? What claims are you talking about? Seriously, stop painting me in a corner that I am not standing. Seriously, how did this post have anything to do with my alliegiences?
What verbal blunders?
What did he said that was disrespectfull directly and indirectly to the players?

And the rest of Bettman being assassin that is going to be sacrificed...

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12-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #345
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Just unbelievable.

What is wrong with the players? They got what they wanted with "make whole" and they start with this pension bull ****.

Are you still in the NHLPA camp, no name? After this?

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12-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #346
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table

Bettman says they're going to take a deep breath and regroup.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN

bettman said the key element was "make whole" in past talks . bettman is very upset at this presser

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12-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #347
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun Daly says term limit on player contracts is so important to league it's "the hill we'll die on."

He may have just written the league's epitaph.

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12-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #348
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Just unbelievable.

What is wrong with the players? They got what they wanted with "make whole" and they start with this pension bull ****.

Are you still in the NHLPA camp, no name? After this?
This is what bugs me the most. I have no clue why there are a small group of people that still are supportive of the PA.

Both sides have to bend but the PA wants a bigger piece of pie. I'm no expert on this whole thing. I just want hockey back and I know this entire collective bargaining is very difficult to absorb.

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12-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #349
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What verbal blunders?
What did he said that was disrespectfull directly and indirectly to the players?

And the rest of Bettman being assassin that is going to be sacrificed...
Verbal blunders for one would be insinuating the league is profitable. Record revenue is a trick wording in an attempt to make the NHL sound more desrable than it actually is. No other sport says this and they really are making money. Now the NHLPA has made a point to call him on it knowing it's false, but using that as a way to get the media on their side.

GB has a history of sparring with players verbally. From Kelly Hrudey in the past to this year having multiple verbal spats with players in these processes.

As for the last part, read the whole aura of my post. You are piecing words together and blowing the context out of whack. The whole post was about GB doing exactly what he was asked to do. He was hired to be an assasin (that is a business term). GB was hired because of his business reputation and he has filled it to a T. Now, I believe the owners will now let him go (or sacrafice him) in an attempt to win back the fans. They will serve him up as the first step in making good with the fans and building their partnership back with the players. Since it can't be argued that both the players and the fans despise the guy this would be the best PR move that they can do.

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12-06-2012, 07:13 PM
  #350
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This is what bugs me the most. I have no clue why there are a small group of people that still are supportive of the PA.

Both sides have to bend but the PA wants a bigger piece of pie. I'm no expert on this whole thing. I just want hockey back and I know this entire collective bargaining is very difficult to absorb.
The Players made a counter-offer. They agreed to pretty much everything the NHL put on the table, except for length of the contract limit, 8 instead of the proposed 5. The NHL responds to this by pulling everything off the table, ending negotiations, with no end in sight... Yet, somehow, it's all the Players fault? Please, the PA obviously sent over a counter-offer, and they thought they would be able negotiate the 5 year term... The NHL's response was to kill the negotiations entirely. Both sides are being completely unreasonable, and neither side truly cares about the fans in all of this. That's the cold heart truth.

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