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Old
12-13-2012, 03:41 PM
  #526
Ron
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Quote:
Mike Halford @HalfordPHT
This piece by @ESPN_Burnside should be getting plenty of notice over the next while: http://es.pn/VDsNVC

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12-13-2012, 03:44 PM
  #527
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Renaud Lavoie @RenVavoieRDS
Steve Fehr said that both parties met today with the mediator at one time. No details given. They'll talk face to face or on the phone Fri.

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12-13-2012, 03:45 PM
  #528
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I recommend Skype if they can't meet face-to-face.

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12-13-2012, 03:52 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
I recommend Skype if they can't meet face-to-face.
That's a great idea since the NHLPA has already been negotiating via Twitter.

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12-13-2012, 04:15 PM
  #530
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That's a great idea since the NHLPA has already been negotiating via Twitter.
QFT. Nailed it.

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Old
12-13-2012, 04:35 PM
  #531
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Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Doesn't sound like PA is willing to work with the NHL's 3 main issues. League responded by saying it won't budge. No progress. As you were.
I am wondering at this point whether its time to put the current offer to a vote of the players in full. I do not believe the owners are ever going to budge from their current position and are willing to lose another season to get what they want.

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12-13-2012, 04:46 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Whoa, I just read bolded part again.

So in essence they want just some itsy-bitsy changes from the League so they go home only crying and not balling their eyes out? Is it really about a modicum of pride at this point?

I mean seriously...what "few small ways" are they looking for? If they are willing to accept the fact that the league isn't going to give in and would just as well not play this season, why can't the players call the owners' bluff and say "we accept."

Now THAT would be fun to watch the owners' reactions.
It does sound like a pride thing doesn't it? The whole (hole?) thing is turning weirder and weirder to me with each passing day. If indeed the season is cancelled which both sides seem to agree will happen if things don't come together in time for January games then I have to wonder if the owners/league ever really wanted to have a season at all. I am not taking sides on this but I mean if everything is cancelled and indeed it turns out that the owners aren't and haven't been willing to make any real concessions from the start then you would have to look at the reasons why they would do such a thing.

I remain optimistic but after awhile I have to start wondering if I am really just hearing what I want to hear and believing the best in people when really sometimes things don't work out the way that they should.

Meh, this afternoon I heard that the NHLPA will be indeed taking what is on the table now to tis members for a "loose vote" in the near future. Take that for what it is worth because I haven't heard anything about it from anyone in the media at all.

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12-13-2012, 04:59 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post

Meh, this afternoon I heard that the NHLPA will be indeed taking what is on the table now to tis members for a "loose vote" in the near future. Take that for what it is worth because I haven't heard anything about it from anyone in the media at all.
Did you hear this from the Kings players who have 'UNOFFICIALLY' returned to So CA from overseas?

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12-13-2012, 05:02 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Did you hear this from the Kings players who have 'UNOFFICIALLY' returned to So CA from overseas?
Sure.

Why not?

?

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Old
12-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Meh, this afternoon I heard that the NHLPA will be indeed taking what is on the table now to tis members for a "loose vote" in the near future. Take that for what it is worth because I haven't heard anything about it from anyone in the media at all.
I am assuming that by "loose vote" you mean that any vote they take is not binding.

Which makes me wonder why vote at all.

If something doesn't happen soon I see the NHLPA getting closer and closer to axing the Fehr brothers. (Would love to see that, actually.)

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:03 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I am assuming that by "loose vote" you mean that any vote they take is not binding.

Which makes me wonder why vote at all.

If something doesn't happen soon I see the NHLPA getting closer and closer to axing the Fehr brothers. (Would love to see that, actually.)
Can't see that happening. Not with the checks and balances that were put in place after the Goodenow fiasco and then the obtaining of the Fehrs. Lindros and his buddies made moves after Fehr was in the fold to take alot of the power away from the players as a whole and put it in the hands of the 30 team reps. I forget exactly what was given up or how but I know there was a bit. Since those are the closest players to Fehr it's very unlikely that they would get anywhere near the votes needed to get rid of the brothers Fehr.

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Old
12-13-2012, 06:24 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I am assuming that by "loose vote" you mean that any vote they take is not binding.

Which makes me wonder why vote at all.

If something doesn't happen soon I see the NHLPA getting closer and closer to axing the Fehr brothers. (Would love to see that, actually.)
The NHLPA does as an entity have the authority to fire its reps and the Fehrs (or anyone else they hire) as well as the vote to disband decertify etc but it would be a tricky thing.

That said yes, what I had heard was going to take place was a showing of hands on where things are sort of thing. I can tell you that there has been a call out to every rep this evening but who knows what went on, not me.

Probably more much ado about nothing but this is the first time during this process that we have seen so much positivity so who knows. I guess its a wait and see thing like always.

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Old
12-13-2012, 10:03 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
The NHLPA does as an entity have the authority to fire its reps and the Fehrs (or anyone else they hire) as well as the vote to disband decertify etc but it would be a tricky thing.

That said yes, what I had heard was going to take place was a showing of hands on where things are sort of thing. I can tell you that there has been a call out to every rep this evening but who knows what went on, not me.

Probably more much ado about nothing but this is the first time during this process that we have seen so much positivity so who knows. I guess its a wait and see thing like always.
Interesting.

Some day I would like to know your source. But I understand the need for secrecy. Keep us updated, thanks.

Meanwhile...Renegade* has chimed in again on the lockout:

Quote:
My message to owners and to players is, ‘You guys make a lot of money and you make a lot of money on the backs of fans, so do right by your fans. You can figure out how to spread out a bunch of revenue that you’re bringing in, but do right by the people who support you,”‘ Obama said. “And I shouldn’t have to be involved in a dispute between really wealthy players and even wealthier owners. They should be able to settle this themselves. And remember who it is that’s putting all that money in their pockets.
Obama's lockout message: "Do right by your fans"

*(Not so) secret code names

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:13 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Interesting.

Some day I would like to know your source. But I understand the need for secrecy. Keep us updated, thanks.

Meanwhile...Renegade* has chimed in again on the lockout:



Obama's lockout message: "Do right by your fans"

*(Not so) secret code names
Renegade, the ultimate secret name!

I o agree that the president of the "free" world shouldn't have to be involved with a bus dispute that is primarily in the field of entertainment.

I haven't heard anything else tonight so something must have been said. Oh well, tomorrow's another day.

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Old
12-13-2012, 11:18 PM
  #540
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With most of the NA players who are playing EU's contracts breaking soon and not resuming until the second week of Jan13 most players will be not only heading back home but this does become the perfect time to end this lock out. No doubt that the issue will have to be resolved asap so that those who are staying and are already back in NA or about to be heading back will know whether or not they are staying or going.

Interesting tomorrow.

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Old
12-14-2012, 01:59 AM
  #541
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This is the 2nd time Renegade has commented publicly on the lockout, the first being on Jay Leno's show a couple of months ago. This was an extended statement, and is showing he is considering it.

However, he will not get involved. Not for sports, as you said. He would get involved if it affected a major industry that severely impacted the U.S. public; say, a protracted labor dispute in the automobile or airline industry.

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Old
12-14-2012, 05:13 AM
  #542
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Habs fan here.

I came to see what this board had to say about the process. I feel sorry for you guys, you have as much potential for a dynasty as the 2004 Lightning so I hope it works out for you.

This is a very civilized board by the way.

One question, why is Obama referred to as renegade? Is that an inside joke I missed out on?

I applaud the guy with the lockout avatar. Well done.

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Old
12-14-2012, 06:22 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Habs fan here.

I came to see what this board had to say about the process. I feel sorry for you guys, you have as much potential for a dynasty as the 2004 Lightning so I hope it works out for you.

This is a very civilized board by the way.

One question, why is Obama referred to as renegade? Is that an inside joke I missed out on?

I applaud the guy with the lockout avatar. Well done.
Thanks...I can't claim credit for the lockout avatar, I found it somewhere on the Internet, but I was able to match the background to this background color on this site through Photoshop...that made it look a lot better.

And this board is very cool...as compared to the main hockey board here, which is a zoo.

I agree with you Habs fan...this is a lost opportunity for the Kings franchise if we don't have a season. I have lamented several times on this board already how important it is for us to have a season and see if we can repeat.

And I found the "Renegade" reference from a news article about how the U.S. Secret Service names their protectees...the article is about three posts above, as I asterisked it to a link to the news article.

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Old
12-14-2012, 09:41 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Habs fan here.

I came to see what this board had to say about the process.
I think it's safe to say that Kings fans just want to see the banner raised.
After all the lows a n occasional high and lower lows, we just want to see that banner.

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Old
12-14-2012, 09:58 AM
  #545
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Can't see that happening. Not with the checks and balances that were put in place after the Goodenow fiasco and then the obtaining of the Fehrs. Lindros and his buddies made moves after Fehr was in the fold to take alot of the power away from the players as a whole and put it in the hands of the 30 team reps. I forget exactly what was given up or how but I know there was a bit. Since those are the closest players to Fehr it's very unlikely that they would get anywhere near the votes needed to get rid of the brothers Fehr.
Time to get some new team reps?

The players are losing hundreds of millions to spite the owners. How dumb is that?

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Old
12-14-2012, 10:42 AM
  #546
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I have a feeling next time they meet it will be done quickly. Both sides are entrenched right now and once something gives its gonna go fast.

I hope so at least.

Just do anything to get Fehr and Bettman away from each other permanently. They are like gas and fire. Kirk and Khan. Matter and Anti-matter. When this is over and they shake hands it wouldn't surprise me if the galaxy imploded.

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12-14-2012, 10:59 AM
  #547
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Time to get some new team reps?

The players are losing hundreds of millions to spite the owners. How dumb is that?
If the players are able to not take money that the owners offer, it just goes to show how well the players have been doing over the years. Why did the 04-05 season get cancelled? The players were raking in 70% of revenue before that lockout. They could afford to wait. The players didn't even agree to a deal the day after the season was cancelled either.

This whole mess could've been figured out over two weeks in August, but it's two sides that just have too much money. Enough money that they both feel able to burn whatever amount of money needed just to prove a point to the other side.

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12-14-2012, 11:44 AM
  #548
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It has been rumored that a proposed a nine-year collective agreement (with an opt-out after seven years for either side), a seven-year limit on player contracts (with an option for eight-year deals for players who have been with a franchise for five years) and a more "simple buyout option,” where the buyout money would count against the salary cap along with the rest has been put on the table.

The thing is that the framework is in place for a deal that both sides should find at least somewhat agreeable is out there and now it should only be a matter of a few compromises to make everything work.

Unlike the 94/95 lockout where the league took until 1/11 to get things going the NHL now has an overabundance of players who are playing throughout EU it has to consider as well as the super arena scheduling conflicts that weren't as problematic back then as they are today.

It seems that the guaranteed contract status thing isn't a sticking point any longer so now, even though we aren't at the who blinks first moment of these negotiations, we are getting close to it and while it has been proven that Fehr likes to wait until a drop dead timeline has been set it doesn't have to be that way.

If it is also true that (as has been rumored) the league is willing to get down to a 52/48 split in rev sharing with the favor going to the players side and that they are also willing to meet close to the middle on the make whole monies as well then really, what is the reason for the hold up?

I agree that I am over simplifying things a bit but really, both sides have close to what they want on the table in front of them and the compromises that are being asked for seem to be within reason or close enough to it to where a deal shouldn't be too hard to come up with a solution in a reasonably short amount of time.

The devil's in the details? I guess but why so much so? I mean, I am typically with the players on these sort of things but at a certain point it just shouldn't matter how much your employer makes as long as YOU are personally happy with the manner in which YOU are compensated.

My employers (in one aspect of my life) make a ton of money and in comparison I make a very tiny amount but I am very happy with the amount of money that I make and the rest of my compensation package so there isn't any reason for me to tell them that I won't work unless I get a bigger percentage of their profits.

I know that isn't close to a perfect analogy but the principles remain the same. I work for them as a sub contractor (easiest way to put it) and sat with them and worked out a deal that we both agreed to when I started and over the years have made small modifications for one reason or another. We have increased the amount of compensation that I have received a couple of times but never once did I as for more based on the amount of monies that employers were making due to my own person contributions.

I think that the NHLPA has done a great job up to this point at assuring its members receive fair treatment and compensation for their part in things but, at a certain point they simply have to accept the fact that this is a business and that sometimes things don't work out perfectly even.

The players that I know that are currently in the game and that have been out of the league for awhile all seem to feel that the owners are being greedy and that it isn't fair that they should make all of the profits. I agree to a point but then no bucks, no buck rogers will only get you so far.

To my way of seeing things, we have a workable deal in place that should be the foundation for a resolution to happen in short time and the only thing standing in the way as of today is the combined ego's of both parties.

This is what happened in each of the last lock outs and eventually things settled with one side compromising a little bit to make it happen. Last time the league/owners did the compromising because the time before the players did. It is the players turn to compromise on a couple of lesser issues and get back to work.

Of course I don't know each of the details and am going on third hand info for the most part but there does seem to be a collective theme coming out of everyone involved in the process that all seem to be more interested in finger pointing then in sitting down and signing a deal.

So close as of today is what I hear but then close can still be miles apart depending on your perspective. We don't have until 1/11 this time around. The clock is definitely ticking right now and if we are going to have any part of this season then it is time for both sides to meet closer to the middle and get things done.

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Old
12-14-2012, 11:56 AM
  #549
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Just do anything to get Fehr and Bettman away from each other permanently. They are like gas and fire. Kirk and Khan. Matter and Anti-matter. When this is over and they shake hands it wouldn't surprise me if the galaxy imploded.

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12-14-2012, 12:04 PM
  #550
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Depending on which physicist you believe it not only will happen, it already is/has/was/will have happened and all at the same time.

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