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12-26-2012, 11:18 AM
  #751
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Originally Posted by tigermask48 View Post
This^ A couple friends and I go to T-Wolves games a couple times a year for the past few solely because it's like $16 dollars and we know we'll get free food, free drinks, our seats moved down closer to the court since the arena is so empty, or a combo of all of these things.

If the NBA is making $5 billion a year and it's record revenue it isn't due to fan support of the smaller market teams or attendance numbers. Then the amount of money they are missing out on by not supplying fans with a competitive league where every team has a chance to win is insane.
When was the last time the Florida Panthers won the Stanley Cup? Blue Jackets? Predators? Sabres? Coyotes? Point is, every league has its share of cellar dwellers who will have trouble bringing fans in because their franchises are run incompetently. The T-Wolves for a good period of time were very competitive, with very good players, and I am sure they had no trouble drawing in fans then. Point is, this phenomenon in the NBA where select groups of players try to form super teams in big markets is something that has developed over the last 5 years or so. I do not like it myself, but in my opinion the teams who complain about it are trying to make excuses for poor drafting and bad management. The Spurs are a consistent threat, have one 4 titles and play in a small market. But they drafted well, and have good coaching.

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12-26-2012, 12:48 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
When was the last time the Florida Panthers won the Stanley Cup? Blue Jackets? Predators? Sabres? Coyotes? Point is, every league has its share of cellar dwellers who will have trouble bringing fans in because their franchises are run incompetently. The T-Wolves for a good period of time were very competitive, with very good players, and I am sure they had no trouble drawing in fans then. Point is, this phenomenon in the NBA where select groups of players try to form super teams in big markets is something that has developed over the last 5 years or so. I do not like it myself, but in my opinion the teams who complain about it are trying to make excuses for poor drafting and bad management. The Spurs are a consistent threat, have one 4 titles and play in a small market. But they drafted well, and have good coaching.
Somewhat true, the Wolves actually struggled to draw even when they had Garnett, Payton, etc, and were going on decent playoff runs for a few years. I remember one of those years we went up to Minneapolis for a wedding a day early, are walking around dowtown, happen to walk by the Target Center, and one of friends comment that the Woles play tonight. We decide to try and go and walk up to ticket window and get lower level seats for I think like 30-40 bucks per ticket for a playoff game about an hour or two before the game... That whole putting players putting together all star teams has always been all the rage in the NBA. Sure the teams may change over the years but you can't tell me guys like Rodman went to Chicago for the love of the game... They went where they did for a championship.

That said before the cap in the NHL players and teams did the same thing... Remember when Colorado had Kariya, Sakic, Hejduk, Forsberg, etc. I agree that a lot of times it's teams making excuses for poor drafting and such. Look at a team like Detroit that never has high draft picks yet still remains able to develop solid players to add to their roster. In the NBA there is no Detroit comparison though. Teams like OKC, Bucks, Cavs, etc. develop young players and then lose/trade them when one of the big teams comes in and throws money at them. That just doesn't happen to the same extent in the NHL.

Sure teams throw crazy money at players still, but honestly can you name me one team that has done that, had it work out, and won multiple championships or even competed as a top team in the NHL for more than 4-5 years? Just doesn't happen often if ever. I mean Carter and Richards deals worked out great for the Kings. The Flyers? Not so much... Teams just can't buy a championship if you have deep pockets in the NHL like you can in the NBA. If you could I think the Leafs would've have the very least made the playoffs at least once post lockout...

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12-26-2012, 05:57 PM
  #753
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It doesn't happen because NHL rosters are too big. One or two Stars most of the time are not going to make a Cruddy roster good.

In the NBA, one Star can make a crap roster a playoff team.

Two Stars can make that same roster a champion roster.

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12-26-2012, 07:46 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
It doesn't happen because NHL rosters are too big. One or two Stars most of the time are not going to make a Cruddy roster good.

In the NBA, one Star can make a crap roster a playoff team.

Two Stars can make that same roster a champion roster.
Not really. It's far too easy to completely screw up team chemistry in the NBA because of the small roster (and egos...) you don't really have that in the NHL because of the bigger roster.

Team Chemistry is such a vastily underrated component to making a champion. The Lakers this year are a perfect example of too much star power and no chemistry. Same thing with the T-Wolves teams I brought up earlier. So good on paper and just dissappointing in every way on the court. The Kings this past season proved what a difference chemistry can make. Look at how good those Pistons teams were. Not much star power (a lot of egos) but everyone bought into the system and it worked. That's something a handful of the big NBA market teams have yet to learn though I think.

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12-26-2012, 07:52 PM
  #755
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Had there not been a lockout, would the Kings have had a float for the Rose parade? I remeber the Ducks had one.

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12-26-2012, 10:12 PM
  #756
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The comeback vs Detroit in 2001 is on FSW right now. That game used to be the Kings ultimate highlight in franchise history. Well, post-Gretzky era.

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12-26-2012, 10:50 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
The comeback vs Detroit in 2001 is on FSW right now. That game used to be the Kings ultimate highlight in franchise history. Well, post-Gretzky era.
As a hockey fan living 3, 000 miles away in Connecticut. It was this series that made me a Kings fan! Later while living in LA I became fanatical!

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12-26-2012, 10:53 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
The comeback vs Detroit in 2001 is on FSW right now. That game used to be the Kings ultimate highlight in franchise history. Well, post-Gretzky era.
Thanks for the heads up. Makes me miss Ziggy so much (Deader too). Though seeing replays of Game 6 this past season makes me forget about all the years of torture and average (or below average) hockey we had to endure. However, I'd trade this lockout for some average Kings hockey. Bring on Michel Petit and Rob Cowie and Chris Snell and Troy Crowder!

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12-27-2012, 02:21 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Thanks for the heads up. Makes me miss Ziggy so much (Deader too). Though seeing replays of Game 6 this past season makes me forget about all the years of torture and average (or below average) hockey we had to endure. However, I'd trade this lockout for some average Kings hockey. Bring on Michel Petit and Rob Cowie and Chris Snell and Troy Crowder!
How can you overlook Daniel Berthiaume, Ray Ferraro and the wrong Thornton?


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12-27-2012, 07:50 PM
  #760
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My optimism has take a hit.

It isn't gone but it has taken a hit.

That said, happy holidays everyone.


Last edited by Tonellisghost: 12-27-2012 at 08:01 PM. Reason: boring reasons
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12-27-2012, 08:37 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
My optimism has take a hit.

It isn't gone but it has taken a hit.

That said, happy holidays everyone.
I believe that the NHL would be happy now without a season. Remember, just one year ago, they advised NBA owners that losing an entire season, in the long run, would be worth it.

So their philosophical stand, while despicable, is also instructive and noteworthy. And with their statement today to the effect of "some new move" would have to take place clearly indicates that they are very content to sit on their collectives ***** and wait for the PA to make the next move, if any.

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12-28-2012, 02:18 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
My optimism has take a hit.
It isn't gone but it has taken a hit.
That said, happy holidays everyone.
Look on the bright side I guess ... IF the season is lost, our KINGS REMAIN the Stanley Cup CHAMPS for an extra YEAR ! Wooo Hooo !

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12-28-2012, 08:41 AM
  #763
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http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/87...er-source-says

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12-28-2012, 09:30 AM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
It must be the end of the world when eklund breaks a story.


We all know what will happen, fehr will say they now need more make whole, and have the cap at 67 mill.

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12-28-2012, 10:53 AM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
My optimism has take a hit.

It isn't gone but it has taken a hit.

That said, happy holidays everyone.
Just when your optimism takes a hit, we get a new proposal from the NHL. Strange dynamic going on here!

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Old
12-28-2012, 10:58 AM
  #766
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
It must be the end of the world when eklund breaks a story.

We all know what will happen, fehr will say they now need more make whole, and have the cap at 67 mill.
Are you a Mayan?

Because you missed your deadline by one week already.

All kidding aside, I disagree that Fehr will do something ridiculous like that. They may say no, of course, because Fehr is one greedy *******, but I don't think they will tank the negotiations on purpose like that.

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12-28-2012, 11:07 AM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Axl Rhoadz View Post
Just when your optimism takes a hit, we get a new proposal from the NHL. Strange dynamic going on here!
I don't understand the NHL at all. Just yesterday they stated it would take "some new moves" to get the talks started again, indicating they were waiting on the PA.

I haven't been siding with either the NHL or the PA, but I've always felt that the PA and the Fehrs have been the slimier between the two. If the NHL is going to play games like this, it appears I will have to revisit my assessment.

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12-28-2012, 11:28 AM
  #768
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Old
12-28-2012, 11:35 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I don't understand the NHL at all. Just yesterday they stated it would take "some new moves" to get the talks started again, indicating they were waiting on the PA.

I haven't been siding with either the NHL or the PA, but I've always felt that the PA and the Fehrs have been the slimier between the two. If the NHL is going to play games like this, it appears I will have to revisit my assessment.
I "" that the PA has a certain response in mind to the league's offer.

It is the reason why my optimism took a hit.

This "offer" by the NHL is what has been "rumored" to have been being discussed by the PA (as well as the league) for the past few days and a response is being planned allegedly.It could come as soon as today but I would expect one to come on Monday, more bang for the buck.

Some players appear to believe that the offer is just enough to where the NHL can claim that they are negotiating in good faith but not enough to where the PA can benefit at all from it.

We are still on schedule for a season to start early (1/11 or 1/14) 13 but this was the exact opposite of an offer in good faith or seems to be being received as so. Possibly.

I bet that this *is* a "take it or leave it* offer that the NHL has made (again but....) and that the PA is seeing it as the league starting to crack and that they will use this as both a reason to stick to their guns and let their constituency know that they are "on the right track".

These are the very reasons why my optimism has taken a hit even though the NHL had sent a new offer over.


Last edited by Tonellisghost: 12-28-2012 at 11:41 AM.
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12-28-2012, 11:41 AM
  #770
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The NHLPA will reject it, their is still time to stall.

Fehr will ask for more. This is going to go down to the wire.

Bettman will cancel the season, then all of a sudden both sides will have serious talks.

They should have already signed a deal. That would have gave them a 50 to 60 game season.

I don't think we will be seeing NHL Hockey this season.

(Edit) Also the movement by the NHL, was not really movement.

one more year on contracts, 5% more on contract variance, Make whole stays.

Not exactly ground breaking.


Last edited by damacles1156: 12-28-2012 at 11:47 AM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 06:37 PM
  #771
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This is still all take and no give by the owners. Competative and emotional people will want to actually get something for all of the concessions.

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12-28-2012, 07:34 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
The NHLPA will reject it, their is still time to stall.

Fehr will ask for more. This is going to go down to the wire.

Bettman will cancel the season, then all of a sudden both sides will have serious talks.

They should have already signed a deal. That would have gave them a 50 to 60 game season.

I don't think we will be seeing NHL Hockey this season.

(Edit) Also the movement by the NHL, was not really movement.

one more year on contracts, 5% more on contract variance, Make whole stays.

Not exactly ground breaking.
I disagree. One key thing I noticed in the TSN release...

Quote:
- Money paid (above a defined threshold) to Players on NHL SPCs in another professional league (e.g., the AHL or a European league) will be charged against the NHL team's Cap, but not against the Players' Share
That can be huge, particularly in the early years when teams will be burying several players to stay under the cap. That will help the remaining players to avoid more escrow.

One more year on is pretty big. 6 years is plenty long for contracts, IMO. And the NHL doubled what they were offering in variance, hard to see how that's not movement. These are the important issues to the NHL and they have given, pretty much 50% from where the last offers stood at.

They have also given in many different areas that are important to the players such as...

Quote:
- New Player Discipline procedures and protocol incorporating Player appeal rights to a neutral third-party arbitrator for both on-ice and off-ice discipline.

1. Early activation of "No Move/No Trade" clauses in contract extensions;

- Player "Working Condition" improvements
[bunch of points]

- Joint (NHL/NHLPA) Committees:
[bunch of points]
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412383

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12-28-2012, 08:27 PM
  #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
The NHLPA will reject it, their is still time to stall.

Fehr will ask for more. This is going to go down to the wire.

Bettman will cancel the season, then all of a sudden both sides will have serious talks.

They should have already signed a deal. That would have gave them a 50 to 60 game season.

I don't think we will be seeing NHL Hockey this season.

(Edit) Also the movement by the NHL, was not really movement.

one more year on contracts, 5% more on contract variance, Make whole stays.

Not exactly ground breaking.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:56 PM
  #774
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So Saturday conference call will happen.

Sunday face to face between the two sides.

January 19th NHL must be playing hockey.

January 7th new drop dead date for this season is on threat (10 days to respond to offer confirmed).

Another reputable reporter is talking about NHL teams calling staff into work for early January.

I am still right where I am on the whole thing. Can the ego a go go go down to respect? It all sounds a little iffy but then I remain somewhat optimistic. Not wildly so but a little.

Now, will the league make the two additional minor concessions needed to make this work? tick tock......

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12-28-2012, 11:26 PM
  #775
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Fehr will say or pull something that will piss the owners off.

He still has two more weeks to drag this out.

Fehr will do that.

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