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Old
12-29-2012, 01:22 AM
  #776
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On the lock-out....


The PA is talking right now and it is rumored to be about clarifying the latest NHL offer which not only falls way short of what they are asking for across the board but still leaves the players with only two options and that is to try to renegotiate with them or pass.

They will come back with asking for the cop to come up to $65m and a cap on escrow at the very least. This could be met by the owners. I don't think that the new CBA has to be an improvement over the last one in every way but there are a couple of principle issues that have to at least remain the same in order for the deal to get done.


Last edited by Chazz Reinhold: 12-29-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: QDP
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12-29-2012, 08:48 AM
  #777
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This is still all take and no give by the owners. Competative and emotional people will want to actually get something for all of the concessions.
In all reality ehat do the owners really have to give?

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12-29-2012, 04:36 PM
  #778
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...5121--nhl.html
Off ice officials notified to be ready to go (in case of season start).

Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancelled.

So after tomorrows talks an official announcement can be made on Monday 12/31. Old news but still......


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412432

Dreger: multiple sessions planned for Sunday.


Last edited by etherialone: 12-29-2012 at 06:11 PM.
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Old
12-29-2012, 08:06 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
In all reality ehat do the owners really have to give?
Without the Players, there is no league. Without the Owners, there is no league... Until another group of very deep pocket individuals form a new one. For months all we have heard from the owners side is "this is our best deal." Yet, it seems to me the deals keep improving. The owners have thrown on my count, more than one temper tantrum, killed off talks, only to restart them again a few weeks later. The Players have already given enough. Hopefully both sides can make a few more concessions, and we can have a deal.

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12-29-2012, 10:11 PM
  #780
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Without the Players, there is no league. Without the Owners, there is no league... Until another group of very deep pocket individuals form a new one. For months all we have heard from the owners side is "this is our best deal." Yet, it seems to me the deals keep improving. The owners have thrown on my count, more than one temper tantrum, killed off talks, only to restart them again a few weeks later. The Players have already given enough. Hopefully both sides can make a few more concessions, and we can have a deal.
Wrong. It is much easier to replace 750 players than 30 owners. There are thousands of junior players right now that are tomorrow's NHL stars.

And what have the players given? Have they "officially" accepted 50/50 immediately? Won't they still make all their current contract amounts with make whole?? Their $2.4m averag salaries, which is still more than football players make. What planet are they on that they think they're worth more than NFL players?

5 year max term? 15% variance or whatever % it becomes...? So what? These "issues" affect maybe 5% of NHLPA members. Deal, or go to the SEL or KHL - you won't be missed. There are PLENTY of players that can and will fill your spot on an NHL roster.

The owners should have cancelled the season on Dec 15, and started making plans for new players for the 13-14 season. Then the NHLPA would have already crumbled by now.

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12-29-2012, 11:17 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Without the Players, there is no league. Without the Owners, there is no league... Until another group of very deep pocket individuals form a new one. For months all we have heard from the owners side is "this is our best deal." Yet, it seems to me the deals keep improving. The owners have thrown on my count, more than one temper tantrum, killed off talks, only to restart them again a few weeks later. The Players have already given enough. Hopefully both sides can make a few more concessions, and we can have a deal.
The players really havent given all that much in the overall scheme of things.

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12-30-2012, 02:23 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Wrong. It is much easier to replace 750 players than 30 owners. There are thousands of junior players right now that are tomorrow's NHL stars.

And what have the players given? Have they "officially" accepted 50/50 immediately? Won't they still make all their current contract amounts with make whole?? Their $2.4m averag salaries, which is still more than football players make. What planet are they on that they think they're worth more than NFL players?

5 year max term? 15% variance or whatever % it becomes...? So what? These "issues" affect maybe 5% of NHLPA members. Deal, or go to the SEL or KHL - you won't be missed. There are PLENTY of players that can and will fill your spot on an NHL roster.

The owners should have cancelled the season on Dec 15, and started making plans for new players for the 13-14 season. Then the NHLPA would have already crumbled by now.
By the tone of your response, I think it is safe to assume that you fall on the side of "the players should be thankful for what they have" camp. Obviously that is a fine position to take, there are a lot of others who believe the same. However, I also think you can very strongly argue that the NHL would lose many many many millions of dollars by taking your approach, creating an NHL of lower-tiered players, and somehow poaching 18, 19, and 20 year olds from the CHL and elsewhere. Obviously that would never work, that would be an approach that would lead to financial ruin for the entire league.

For me I guess it is rather simple. The Players sacrifice their bodies year after year, 82 times a season. Are they paid VERY generously, absolutely. They are paid very generously, more than a lot of people will see in their lifetimes. Do I somehow feel resentment towards them for that? Of course not. In fact, I would rather see the money that I spend go in their pockets, rather than the businessman behind the scenes who use the average NHL player salary as toilet paper.

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12-30-2012, 05:35 AM
  #783
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I was watching the fight between Mitchell and Downie a couple years ago when he tries to run Doughty, pretty awesome stuff, started laughing hard when i read a comment that said "Mitchell looks like stiffler"

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12-30-2012, 11:56 AM
  #784
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The players really havent given all that much in the overall scheme of things.
Yes. They've essentially represented the same proposal for the entirety of these negotiations.

I would say in a whole they have moved significantly less than the owners.

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:49 PM
  #785
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#CBA There was some face-to-face meeting this morning between staff members for both NHL/NHLPA but nothing decided yet.

https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...37436396457984

There are additional reports that the two sides have been in meetings already today though the negotiating arm of the NHLPA apparently wasn't informed right away.

For what its worth.....

https://twitter.com/rushockey

Bryzgalov says he left CSKA because he thinks the lockout is ending.

Now there are more signs that others might think that the two sides are the closest that they have been so far.


Last edited by etherialone: 12-30-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 01:33 PM
  #786
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I also wanted to say to those who are arguing pro owner that they should remember that few teams have one single owner and that more of them have a primary owner and then a secondary ownership group behind them as well.


Latest update

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412474

Quote:
The league and players also spent most of Saturday in conference calls and discussions regarding the 288-page document that the NHL presented on Thursday.

According to TSN's Aaron Ward, lawyers and financial staff representing both sides met face-to-face today. They are still in the review and clarification stage.


The next step forward.

Slowly moving towards a deal imo.



Quote:
No determination has been made yet on whether NHL and NHLPA will re-convene this afternoon.

I am hearing they will.

https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...60923601264640


Last edited by etherialone: 12-30-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 02:43 PM
  #787
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I've noticed that most of the American/Canadian NHLers chose to play in the Swedish, Swiss, and German leagues. Is there a particular reason why they didn't choose leagues in Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Russia? Are we talking about living conditions here?

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12-30-2012, 03:36 PM
  #788
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I've noticed that most of the American/Canadian NHLers chose to play in the Swedish, Swiss, and German leagues. Is there a particular reason why they didn't choose leagues in Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Russia? Are we talking about living conditions here?
For one the Swiss and German leagues have a MUCH higher import limit on teams. Russian KHL teams have a 3 import player max, whereas German league has 12, and Swiss is high as well.

The Slovak league has only 1-2 teams that can afford to pay for insurance for players (particularly now that the top team, by a mile, Slovan has moved to the KHL). Not a rich league, combined with a pretty damn low talent level. There are more Slovaks in the KHL than any other nationality (other than Russian), Slovak players generally do not stay in their domestic league either, no money.

Czech league is much better off, but the teams seemed have targeted Czech players almost exclusively. Combined with the limit of import players and big money spent on acquiring the many Czech stars (something Swizterland and Germany do not have in such abundance), not many options for NA born players there.

KHL has it's share of NA born players, but the limits for Russian teams (which is why for NA players sign with Minsk, Barys, etc than the Russian teams, since non-Russian teams do not have this limit) make spots at a premium for NA born players, not too mention I think eams will be scared by the inability of several solid NHLers to adapt to KHL game (E. Kane, Lupul).

So yeah, what I am saying is that it is mostly a lack of spots/money combined with the fact that the few stars that probably were offered a choice would choose to stay west (as you said). Swiss, German, Swedish, and Finnish leagues always have a higher content of NA born players (even in non-lockout years) and that trend is just continuing. I don't think it is so much players not choosing to sign there as it is the teams wanting/being to afford/finding room for the locked out NHLers, particularly NA born for the Eastern countries.

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Old
12-30-2012, 10:37 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Wrong. It is much easier to replace 750 players than 30 owners. There are thousands of junior players right now that are tomorrow's NHL stars.

.
This is partially true and partially absurd. You can't replace thirty owners. You can replace 750 players but then there will be no advertising, no initial fans, too much of an opporating cost. The league would have to fold.

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12-30-2012, 11:29 PM
  #790
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so when is the last day for this circus act to end.

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12-30-2012, 11:39 PM
  #791
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so when is the last day for this circus act to end.
I think I read that the new proposal is contingent on a 48-game season which would start Jan 19th....with that, a deal would have to be in place by Jan 11th.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:21 AM
  #792
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Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancelled.



So for the end of the day Sunday....

More meetings scheduled for Monday.

Everyone feels that we are closer to a deal then before.

A few more players returning from EU.

Some arenas making noises like they are getting ready to get underway.

Here is an interesting article;

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...rs-100m-extra/
Lawless: extra $100m if players start 1/12 rather than 1/19.


For what it is worth.

Bets are hedging.......


Last edited by etherialone: 12-31-2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old
12-31-2012, 12:28 AM
  #793
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Well, at least they've announced the ultimatum. I just got tired of not knowing which direction they were going. I mean we still don't know, but at least there is a date.

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12-31-2012, 12:29 AM
  #794
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This is partially true and partially absurd. You can't replace thirty owners. You can replace 750 players but then there will be no advertising, no initial fans, too much of an opporating cost. The league would have to fold.
This is actually what happened with the old WHA imo.

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12-31-2012, 01:14 AM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
For one the Swiss and German leagues have a MUCH higher import limit on teams. Russian KHL teams have a 3 import player max, whereas German league has 12, and Swiss is high as well.

The Slovak league has only 1-2 teams that can afford to pay for insurance for players (particularly now that the top team, by a mile, Slovan has moved to the KHL). Not a rich league, combined with a pretty damn low talent level. There are more Slovaks in the KHL than any other nationality (other than Russian), Slovak players generally do not stay in their domestic league either, no money.

Czech league is much better off, but the teams seemed have targeted Czech players almost exclusively. Combined with the limit of import players and big money spent on acquiring the many Czech stars (something Swizterland and Germany do not have in such abundance), not many options for NA born players there.

KHL has it's share of NA born players, but the limits for Russian teams (which is why for NA players sign with Minsk, Barys, etc than the Russian teams, since non-Russian teams do not have this limit) make spots at a premium for NA born players, not too mention I think eams will be scared by the inability of several solid NHLers to adapt to KHL game (E. Kane, Lupul).

So yeah, what I am saying is that it is mostly a lack of spots/money combined with the fact that the few stars that probably were offered a choice would choose to stay west (as you said). Swiss, German, Swedish, and Finnish leagues always have a higher content of NA born players (even in non-lockout years) and that trend is just continuing. I don't think it is so much players not choosing to sign there as it is the teams wanting/being to afford/finding room for the locked out NHLers, particularly NA born for the Eastern countries.
Not to mention that those countries are less of a culture shock than the others.

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Old
12-31-2012, 03:22 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL source told me a deal needs to be done by January 11. If not, the 2012-2013 season will be cancelled.



So for the end of the day Sunday....

More meetings scheduled for Monday.

Everyone feels that we are closer to a deal then before.

A few more players returning from EU.

Some arenas making noises like they are getting ready to get underway.

Here is an interesting article;

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...rs-100m-extra/
Lawless: extra $100m if players start 1/12 rather than 1/19.


For what it is worth.

Bets are hedging.......
If this is true, I'm waiting to hear when the banner-raising ceremony will be.

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Old
12-31-2012, 06:11 AM
  #797
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Well the date is out, finally we get to see if both sides want to make a deal.

Or are they hell bent on just doing as much damage as possible.

This should be fun.

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:17 AM
  #798
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This is partially true and partially absurd. You can't replace thirty owners. You can replace 750 players but then there will be no advertising, no initial fans, too much of an opporating cost. The league would have to fold.
A lot of players would leave the NHLPA to play. I get Butch's point. The player pool is constantly being turned over. Players that make a lot of money might continue to sit for a bit, but I think they would cave if the NHL was playing hockey without them.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:57 PM
  #799
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
CBA mtng now likely closer to 2pm...

https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...03881991110657

So the two sides did decide to meet today. Interesting.

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Old
12-31-2012, 01:11 PM
  #800
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I miss hockey, but one thing I don't miss is trying to watch an NBA game and an NHL game at the same time. It was such a pain in the ass when the Kings and Clippers overlapped each other. Still, I just want hockey back!

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