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01-03-2013, 12:13 AM
  #851
KopitarFAN
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The fact that the two sides are extremely vague in giving details, and aren't insulting each other as they have previously is a sign of progress. Not to mention that Fehr didn't file the DOI (I know they can vote again and file later, but that would supposedly really weaken their case), I am as confident as ever that we will be playing by the 19th.

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01-03-2013, 12:14 AM
  #852
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
Meeting over. Fehr says both sides moved closer but still work to be done
One day closer to where we can tell both sides to **** off.

I, for one, will be happy to do so. If after 4 more hours of meeting tonight and they STILL can't get a deal done tells me all I need to know about the negotiation skills from the leadership of both sides.

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01-03-2013, 12:15 AM
  #853
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Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
The fact that the two sides are extremely vague in giving details, and aren't insulting each other as they have previously is a sign of progress. Not to mention that Fehr didn't file the DOI (I know they can vote again and file later, but that would supposedly really weaken their case), I am as confident as ever that we will be playing by the 19th.
I'm not.

Today is January 2. Less than 10 days to go until the NHL cancels the season.

They have had over 100 days to do this. I see very little movement to get past these team cap and pension plan issues.

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01-03-2013, 12:18 AM
  #854
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Quote:
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Bettman: as long as process continues I am hopeful. Echoes what Fehr said, movement but still a lot of work to be done
Actually, there is not enough time to get "a lot of work to be done."

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01-03-2013, 12:32 AM
  #855
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Ron....**** comes together quickly once you have a deadline. I never would of finished college if the teacher didn't give due dates for assignments.

All it takes is for the PA to finally decide that they can't get any more movement their way and this will be over. I know you are super frustrated but the last couple of days have provided the most optimism in my opinion.

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01-03-2013, 12:50 AM
  #856
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Ron....**** comes together quickly once you have a deadline. I never would of finished college if the teacher didn't give due dates for assignments.

All it takes is for the PA to finally decide that they can't get any more movement their way and this will be over. I know you are super frustrated but the last couple of days have provided the most optimism in my opinion.
Perhaps.

But part of me actually wants to see implosion here. After all these clowns have put us through, I would be satisfied to see both sides lose millions and billions over their pettiness in trying to squeeze pennies from each other.

It isn't really about deadlines at all. It's about doing the right thing for the sport and for fans. All one has to do is look at the NBA one year ago and there were no such deadlines to cancel a season, certainly not by Christmas. (Remember, the NBA actually starts an 82-game season 2½ weeks later than the NHL does.)

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01-03-2013, 12:59 AM
  #857
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so no DOI but no deal, whatever.

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01-03-2013, 01:26 AM
  #858
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
Year 2 salary cap remains huge issue. NHL still wants $60 M. NHLPA willing to do $65 M. League doesn't want cap floor to move up
This is the deal-breaker. This is the issue that is going to break the bank, IMO, if it doesn't get compromised.

Hey a-holes...$62.5 million. That's the center for the lawyers who don't know arithmetic.

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01-03-2013, 02:21 AM
  #859
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
so no DOI but no deal, whatever.
What's DOI? I suck at acronyms.

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01-03-2013, 03:27 AM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron View Post



This is the deal-breaker. This is the issue that is going to break the bank, IMO, if it doesn't get compromised.

Hey a-holes...$62.5 million. That's the center for the lawyers who don't know arithmetic.
Relax my man. You are way too worked up over nothing. This is how these things work.

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01-03-2013, 03:50 AM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
What's DOI? I suck at acronyms.
Divorce of idiots.

..if you are serious, disclaimer of interest.

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01-03-2013, 06:03 AM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I'm not.

Today is January 2. Less than 10 days to go until the NHL cancels the season.

They have had over 100 days to do this. I see very little movement to get past these team cap and pension plan issues.
100 days ago they didn't have a deadline, you think the PA would have had as many things they have now from the NHL if they made a deal 100 days ago? No, they would just be in this mess again in 6 years, the union is showing the NHL they can't f with them like they have in the past.

It's been the owner strategy, to lock out the players then wait for the union to break and then get what they want, but not with Fehr in charge they haven't been able to.

I don't see them scrubbing a season over the issues they have now, they'll get them worked out, it's a matter of making progress day by day which is what's happening.

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01-03-2013, 09:46 AM
  #863
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Quote:
Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
There are other issues also still to be resolved but the 3 that @DarrenDreger outlined are the big ones


Quote:
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
2nd year cap, term on contracts and pension remain the most significant "open" issues as CBA talks set to resume this morning in NYC.

Quote:
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
Further to @michaelgrange report about NHL/NHLPA agreeing to 2 compliance buyouts per team, word is they will count against HRR but not cap.
Quote:
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC
That is quite the concession from players...proof that NHL was going to hold firm on money being "outside the system." But, remember...

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01-03-2013, 09:46 AM
  #864
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You could see the lack of filing a DOI as a sign of progress, OR a sign that the union is making empty threats. Depends on your point of view, I suppose.

Personally, I don't think a deal gets done and I'll be getting a season ticket refund soon.

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01-03-2013, 09:49 AM
  #865
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
Relax my man. You are way too worked up over nothing. This is how these things work.
You have made the mistake of assuming my personality is linked to the way I post tweets and comments.

In actuality, I couldn't care less at this point if we have a season or not. My posting style is more for effect at this point in time: entertainment purposes only.

Having said that, I do have a certain measure of contempt for both sides of this ridiculous negotiation (if you can call it that). I believe both sides have shown an incompetence in dealing with personalities of the other side, and that indeed egos have gotten in the way of doing what is right for the sport, for the league, and for the fans.

It is the human condition on display, and its an ugly one.

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01-03-2013, 09:55 AM
  #866
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Originally Posted by SCARFACE909 View Post
100 days ago they didn't have a deadline, you think the PA would have had as many things they have now from the NHL if they made a deal 100 days ago? No, they would just be in this mess again in 6 years, the union is showing the NHL they can't f with them like they have in the past.

It's been the owner strategy, to lock out the players then wait for the union to break and then get what they want, but not with Fehr in charge they haven't been able to.

I don't see them scrubbing a season over the issues they have now, they'll get them worked out, it's a matter of making progress day by day which is what's happening.
With all due respect, that is a simplistic way of looking at the dynamics involved here.

The bottom line is there is one major sticking point that both the owners and players can't seem to agree on: and that is the 2nd year cap. The owners don't want to budge from $60 million. The players want at least $65 million, and would like it to be higher.

The owners don't seem to realize that many teams have guaranteed contracts that is going to break above $60 million. I am not sure why they don't understand that.

As far as the other two issues are concerned: pension experts are on hand today to explain the complexities of a defined-benefit pension plan, including owner liabilities that exceed a CBA term, to both the players and owners today. So that's a "good" sign.

And the other issue is term limits on contracts. I also believe this is a issue that can be resolved between the two sides.

Those are the big ones. As far as the remaining issues are concerned, I am like you and believe they can be worked out over time.

However, if they can't see eye-to-eye on that cap issue, then you can make other plans for the Spring.

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01-03-2013, 10:01 AM
  #867
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Quote:
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Further to @Real_ESPNLeBrun. Buyouts still count against players' share, Players do not like that. Prefer dollars were outside system.
So it appears that there is contradicting information here. (Remember, these are "tweets" from reporters, supposedly on the scene and getting sourced information. It may not be true.)

What first appeared as a player concession may not have actually taken place if the buyout salaries actually count against the players' share.

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01-03-2013, 10:07 AM
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KopitarFAN View Post
The fact that the two sides are extremely vague in giving details, and aren't insulting each other as they have previously is a sign of progress. Not to mention that Fehr didn't file the DOI (I know they can vote again and file later, but that would supposedly really weaken their case), I am as confident as ever that we will be playing by the 19th.
What else can fans think? We have no choice but to assume they'll play (how can anyone turn down playing hockey?!? - for HUGE money!! )

I thought they'd have a CBA agreement on Sept 15, and look where that got me.

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01-03-2013, 10:10 AM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
What else can fans think? We have no choice but to assume they'll play (how can anyone turn down playing hockey?!? - for HUGE money!! )

I thought they'd have a CBA agreement on Sept 15, and look where that got me.
The dates October 15, November 2, and December 6 also ring a bell, but posters here seem to be forgetting "how close" they were then also.

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01-03-2013, 10:41 AM
  #870
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Originally Posted by SCARFACE909 View Post
I don't see them scrubbing a season over the issues they have now, they'll get them worked out, it's a matter of making progress day by day which is what's happening.
They absolutely will scrub a season over it. Don't forget the league had agreed to the almost the same pension idea three weeks ago. Both sides really need to make it clear where the wiggle room is to make a deal and quit moving the goalposts. Everytime a deal gets close one side takes that deal and goes "Thanks. Ok now move on this" and it's gotten really old. It isn't even a negotiation, it's a cat fight at this point...

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01-03-2013, 10:51 AM
  #871
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Originally Posted by SLang View Post
You could see the lack of filing a DOI as a sign of progress, OR a sign that the union is making empty threats. Depends on your point of view, I suppose.

Personally, I don't think a deal gets done and I'll be getting a season ticket refund soon.
Both sides have been doing nothing BUT make empty threats... How many times has "make whole" been offered and then "taken off the table" at this point? Four times I think by my count. The same thing on the players side, how many times have they said "oh well this is our one issue" only to turn around and add three more issues after one gets sorted out?

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01-03-2013, 11:10 AM
  #872
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Significant.

Not for us but significant.

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

Another detail emerging: NHL has upped its compliance buyout offer to 2 per team, up from 1 prior to 2013-14 season.

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01-03-2013, 11:31 AM
  #873
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That will help teams meet that 60 or 65 million dollar cap.

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01-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #874
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Quote:
Renaud Lavoie @RenLavoieRDS
NHLPA executive board will begin the process to have players approval to disclaim if no agreement is concluded by today.
January 19? We don't need no stinking January 19! January 3 for us!


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01-03-2013, 11:59 AM
  #875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
That will help teams meet that 60 or 65 million dollar cap.
How about 62.5 and let's play some hockey?

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