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Old
11-22-2012, 07:49 PM
  #151
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
If what you are saying is true, that there is indeed no casual hockey fans in the United States, why in the world did Gary Bettman decide to place franchises in non-traditional hockey markets? Why is there a team in Phoenix, and Nashville, and Florida, and Texas? Kind of flies in the face of logic now, doesn't it? When you have Bill Simmons calling you out in a long winded column about the damage Gary Bettman and this collective group of owners has done to the league over the past 10 years or so, I think there is a hint of truth to it.
And all those markets are failing.....Proving my point. There is no such thing as a Casual Hockey fan. At least there is not enough Casual Fan's to make a difference.

As to why Bettman and his cronies decided that it was a good idea.

Who knows.

Who cares also, it's water under the bridge it can't be undone.

It's not like anyone is praising Bettman/owner's for expanding in those awful markets. Maybe the players are, since it gave them additional jobs.

My overall point stands. The revenue pie is not very big. That is why both sides are not motivated to compromise and just play.

They both want as much money as they can get, out of this small pie. Fan's be damned , because they know the fan's will come back.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-22-2012 at 07:58 PM.
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11-23-2012, 04:36 AM
  #152
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I saw another Malkin proposal on trade and I wouldn't even trade Stoll for Malkin. Kopitar and Doughty for Malkin yeah right. Crosby has head issues and Malkin has glass knees. Kopitar is a healthy beast. Knock on wood. Stoll for Malkin..... You know what I will call a buddy of mine who knows all about trades and the best I can do Is Stoll.

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11-23-2012, 12:10 PM
  #153
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Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Cancellation of games through December 14 expected within the hour. NHL will also cancel the 2013 NHL All-Star Weekend.

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11-23-2012, 12:10 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
I saw another Malkin proposal on trade and I wouldn't even trade Stoll for Malkin. Kopitar and Doughty for Malkin yeah right. Crosby has head issues and Malkin has glass knees. Kopitar is a healthy beast. Knock on wood. Stoll for Malkin..... You know what I will call a buddy of mine who knows all about trades and the best I can do Is Stoll.
?????

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11-23-2012, 01:31 PM
  #155
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Bill Daly radio interview

Steve Fehr radio interview

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Old
11-23-2012, 01:38 PM
  #156
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Man, reading the facebook and twitter reaction from people...it's really sad how so many people just rather blame Bettman, a solitary man, as if he were the czar of this whole thing and holding the league hostage, then realize it's not just one guy, or one side to blame.

It's EVERYONES fault at this point...

“It's too easy to criticize a man when he's out of favour, and to make him shoulder the blame for everybody else's mistakes.”

- Leo Tolstroy, "War and Peace"

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11-23-2012, 01:42 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
Man, reading the facebook and twitter reaction from people...it's really sad how so many people just rather blame Bettman, a solitary man, as if he were the czar of this whole thing and holding the league hostage, then realize it's not just one guy, or one side to blame.

It's EVERYONES fault at this point...

“It's too easy to criticize a man when he's out of favour, and to make him shoulder the blame for everybody else's mistakes.”

- Leo Tolstroy, "War and Peace"
Sad indeed. They aren't really hockey fans. Just seasonal fans who are upset. The real culprit is Fehr but like what you said, it's everyones fault. Not just one side or the other.

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11-23-2012, 02:17 PM
  #158
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Sad indeed. They aren't really hockey fans. Just seasonal fans who are upset. The real culprit is Fehr but like what you said, it's everyones fault. Not just one side or the other.
This just reads as completely misinformed. I am assuming that in your mind then, the last lockout what Bob Goodenhow's fault as well, correct? And the lockout back in 94, also the PA's fault, right? How do you propose the players' resolve this dispute?

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11-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #159
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This just reads as completely misinformed. I am assuming that in your mind then, the last lockout what Bob Goodenhow's fault as well, correct? And the lockout back in 94, also the PA's fault, right? How do you propose the players' resolve this dispute?
I think you might be misunderstanding what I am trying to imply.

Both sides are at fault.

But in my honest opinion, majority of it comes from the union's management. Unions are not what they used to be back then. It is completely different.

Am I siding with the owners and Bettman? Absolutely not. They are at fault here too.

I'm just a life long hockey fan. Without or without it, my life will continue. When it's back I will be more than happy to spend my money on the game. I love hockey and the competitive nature of the game. It's just sad that one side has to be the 'dominant' one. But in reality, the owners/Bettman are the ones with 'real' powers because they have the assets to do so.

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11-23-2012, 03:55 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
This just reads as completely misinformed. I am assuming that in your mind then, the last lockout what Bob Goodenhow's fault as well, correct? And the lockout back in 94, also the PA's fault, right? How do you propose the players' resolve this dispute?
Give in to the inevitable.

Let's play us some hockey.

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11-23-2012, 06:33 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
I think you might be misunderstanding what I am trying to imply.

Both sides are at fault.

But in my honest opinion, majority of it comes from the union's management. Unions are not what they used to be back then. It is completely different.

.
Can you clarify this?

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11-23-2012, 08:39 PM
  #162
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I've noticed almost everyone who says both sides are at fault then goes on to blame the players for the lack of a resolution.

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11-23-2012, 09:36 PM
  #163
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I've noticed almost everyone who says both sides are at fault then goes on to blame the players for the lack of a resolution.
Because the reality of the situation is that everyone has figured out the NHL just isn't going to budge.

So yeah, it's the players that have to capitulate (maybe even 100%) in order to get back to playing hockey.

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11-23-2012, 11:32 PM
  #164
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I really wish we had a commissioner that cared about the NHL. Someone like Brian Burke. Bettman seems ok with sacrificing a season to get the best deal.

This has been Bettman's biggest criticism during his regime; he ain't a hockey fan. I guess hes done his job making money for the owners. It would be unacceptable to any real fan to lose one full season yet Bettman is about to embark on losing his second full season under his regime.

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11-24-2012, 12:16 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by zeppelin97 View Post
I really wish we had a commissioner that cared about the NHL. Someone like Brian Burke. Bettman seems ok with sacrificing a season to get the best deal.

This has been Bettman's biggest criticism during his regime; he ain't a hockey fan. I guess hes done his job making money for the owners. It would be unacceptable to any real fan to lose one full season yet Bettman is about to embark on losing his second full season under his regime.
Bettman is a business man. He gets 8 million dollars a year to make the owners hundreds. Like any successfull business man he doesn't give two turtle ***** about those that are unhappy about his decisions.

All other sports have people in place that care about the success and perception of their sport. They help out both sides and in doing so keep the public coming back (revenue flow). they know that you can't sell jerseys when nobody see the player on TV. In doing so, all of these other commisioners get paid big bucks.

Now, GB is in a hard place here. The owners are at odds with eachother and there is no collective decision amongst the 30 owners. GB has to mediate the owners, media and fans, and the players.

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11-24-2012, 02:54 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by zeppelin97 View Post
I really wish we had a commissioner that cared about the NHL. Someone like Brian Burke. Bettman seems ok with sacrificing a season to get the best deal.

This has been Bettman's biggest criticism during his regime; he ain't a hockey fan. I guess hes done his job making money for the owners. It would be unacceptable to any real fan to lose one full season yet Bettman is about to embark on losing his second full season under his regime.

You really cant blame bettman for doing his job. Who says he doesnt care ? If he goes against the owners he is good as fired. He does what he can to do his job and make his money because without owners there are no teams. I think bettman is just doing what he can

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11-24-2012, 10:25 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by zeppelin97 View Post
I really wish we had a commissioner that cared about the NHL. Someone like Brian Burke. Bettman seems ok with sacrificing a season to get the best deal.

This has been Bettman's biggest criticism during his regime; he ain't a hockey fan. I guess hes done his job making money for the owners. It would be unacceptable to any real fan to lose one full season yet Bettman is about to embark on losing his second full season under his regime.
This post of yours really isn't thought out...see the above two responses, and below as well.

First of all, of course he cares about the NHL. He has been there 20 years now and the league is more profitable then it ever has been. He obviously has the backing of the full ownership of the league. Not one owner has spoken out against him during the entire lockout.

To say he is not a fan of hockey is ludicrous. A lot of people want someone who came up through the ranks of hockey for some illogical reasoning: that they know the game. Bettman is an attorney who came from a sports background, having spent 12 years in the NBA as legal counsel. He has stated on numerous occasions that he misses his hockey too. But in the end, it doesn't matter whether he is a fan or whether he "came up through the ranks." What matters most to the owners is if he is a competent advocate for their positions and does he fulfill the wishes of ownership in stewarding the league through the seasons.

Obviously, he has ownership's full support for almost 20 years now. That should tell you all you need to know.

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11-24-2012, 12:10 PM
  #168
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He obviously has the backing of the full ownership of the league. Not one owner has spoken out against him during the entire lockout.
This isn't really a fair or necessarily true statement. Because the owners can't speak out against him.
You've head players speak out becayse their union doesn't fine them like Bettman fines the owners.

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11-24-2012, 12:19 PM
  #169
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This isn't really a fair or necessarily true statement. Because the owners can't speak out against him.
You've head players speak out becayse their union doesn't fine them like Bettman fines the owners.
What I wouldn't give for Fehr to do the same. Nobody needs to be trying to speak to the fans during this. Every fan knows the players, just like the owners, are in this for the money, and not because they love hockey. That has been made quite clear, and neither side even had to say it.

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11-24-2012, 12:45 PM
  #170
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What I wouldn't give for Fehr to do the same. Nobody needs to be trying to speak to the fans during this. Every fan knows the players, just like the owners, are in this for the money, and not because they love hockey. That has been made quite clear, and neither side even had to say it.
The owners and GB gave up their right to punish players when they locked them out. The players could do whatever they want right now (legally and illegaly) and not be at risk of future punishment for harming the NHL's image. The players are just average Joe's right now.

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11-24-2012, 12:56 PM
  #171
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At this point I am a little ambivalent about any of this current crop of players ever playing another NHL game.

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11-24-2012, 02:43 PM
  #172
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The owners and GB gave up their right to punish players when they locked them out. The players could do whatever they want right now (legally and illegaly) and not be at risk of future punishment for harming the NHL's image. The players are just average Joe's right now.
Yeah, that's what they are.

I didn't say anything about Bettman or the NHL punishing the players for their comments, or the players harming the league. I said that Fehr should fine the players, the same way Bettman would fine the owners, for some of these immature and unprofessional comments, as the players are harming themselves more than anything else, whether it be financially, with a portion of the paying public, or as may be the case in Washington, on the ice and in the room.

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11-24-2012, 04:02 PM
  #173
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Yeah, that's what they are.

I didn't say anything about Bettman or the NHL punishing the players for their comments, or the players harming the league. I said that Fehr should fine the players, the same way Bettman would fine the owners, for some of these immature and unprofessional comments, as the players are harming themselves more than anything else, whether it be financially, with a portion of the paying public, or as may be the case in Washington, on the ice and in the room.
Gotcha. Unions have some power over the people or players that choose to follow but it doesn't involve fines. The only fines unions have jurisdiction over is the company that the people / players are working for. It would be nice though. Even some of the tactfull responses by the players sound really out of touch.

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11-24-2012, 05:36 PM
  #174
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Good article on decertification: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...questions.html

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11-24-2012, 06:21 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by zeppelin97 View Post
I really wish we had a commissioner that cared about the NHL. Someone like Brian Burke. Bettman seems ok with sacrificing a season to get the best deal.

This has been Bettman's biggest criticism during his regime; he ain't a hockey fan. I guess hes done his job making money for the owners. It would be unacceptable to any real fan to lose one full season yet Bettman is about to embark on losing his second full season under his regime.
So, when they are playing games, that would mean that Bettman cares about the NHL then, but not during a lockout??

And the old tried and true jab "he ain't a hockey fan." He's been the commissioner for 20 years, I'm pretty sure he's been exposed to quite a bit of hockey. How many more years would he have to be commissioner to be considered a "hockey fan?" seriously.

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