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Old
11-29-2012, 04:30 PM
  #201
scramble91
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Like i said on another thread... I would pay to watch that meeting between savvy business people debating economics with the players.

It would likely be a curb stomping..... So I doubt Fehr would ever let this happen.

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11-29-2012, 05:17 PM
  #202
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At least they are trying to get creative with the owner-player meeting.


But at this point, considering that mediators stepped in and said, "Wow these guys aren't even close"

Think I might look into some more Clippers tickets....

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11-29-2012, 06:02 PM
  #203
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At least they are trying to get creative with the owner-player meeting.


But at this point, considering that mediators stepped in and said, "Wow these guys aren't even close"

Think I might look into some more Clippers tickets....
Well it doesn't forecast a happy ending, but at least the mediators came out and stated that both sides were still far apart which the owners have been saying all along, while Fehr was insisting that they were close to what the NHL wanted.

That's the only thing I took out of the mediation process lol.

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11-29-2012, 08:00 PM
  #204
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That's been Bettman's stance all along, which is why calling it a 'negotiation' was a joke. A negotiation is supposed to be a win win scenario with a fair and reasonable outcome to both parties. That means each side gives, is open and flexible.
I'm curious to see how many owners are upset with him at the Board of Governors meeting next week and what if any, influence that may have. I cant' believe the majority of owners want to lose a season, a fanbase and the future of the sport.

How can they not see that Bettman fails at this each time? The fact it's the second lockout in less than a decade is sad and pathetic. The only progress that was made was that 14 hour marathon session a few weekends ago by Daley and Steve Fehr.

When Bettman said last week, 'the fans will come back' I wanted to spit on his face on the monitor. How arrogant. I wish the entire NHL fanbase would not show up to the same amount of games lost this year , if it does resume. 50 game season? sit out 32 and see how the owners like that.

I was hopeful the mediators would be able to get through to him and that maybe by Jan , we'd get a 50 game partial season.
Now I' think the season is lost and the future is muddy.
Easy. If you belief the owners are losing money, and they need to get to a certain point to make money/break even. They have to get that point or its never gonna be win win. It may seem like the owners are trying to take everything, but thats because they believe they have been getting hammered these last few years and don't want to continue down that path.


That said, of course it is the owners fault for not making a better deal last time around....but how long must they "suffer for their sins"....

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11-30-2012, 01:21 AM
  #205
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Easy. If you belief the owners are losing money, and they need to get to a certain point to make money/break even. They have to get that point or its never gonna be win win. It may seem like the owners are trying to take everything, but thats because they believe they have been getting hammered these last few years and don't want to continue down that path.


That said, of course it is the owners fault for not making a better deal last time around....but how long must they "suffer for their sins"....
In terms of money the owners got more out of lockout than any sport in history in the last go round The owners are getting hammered because they don't know how to control themselves and can't get along with the 10 teams that have a history of making money due to being in a good hockey market. NHL as a whole is a bad business plan.

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11-30-2012, 01:34 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
In terms of money the owners got more out of lockout than any sport in history in the last go round The owners are getting hammered because they don't know how to control themselves and can't get along with the 10 teams that have a history of making money due to being in a good hockey market. NHL as a whole is a bad business plan.
Financially the owners "got more" because they were at the time still giving up the most. Before the lockout the players were at like 70% of revenues. So yes dropping to 57% was alot....its still 6-8% more then everyone else is getting!!!

So like I said, the owners "got alot" but in reality they didn't get enough. Mostly because of how lose the owners were with the cash in the 90's.

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11-30-2012, 12:32 PM
  #207
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Financially the owners "got more" because they were at the time still giving up the most. Before the lockout the players were at like 70% of revenues. So yes dropping to 57% was alot....its still 6-8% more then everyone else is getting!!!

So like I said, the owners "got alot" but in reality they didn't get enough. Mostly because of how lose the owners were with the cash in the 90's.
GB went on his victory tour holding his head up high like he just won the lottery. He insinuated that there will be labor peace and even apologized to the players. The next opportunity to get more they locked the players out again. According to the NHL revenue has exploded since the last lockout. This tells you that the owners ruined it again and instead of being reasonable in how they run their business, they get their money back the only way they can withoutout fighting the other owners for the cherry.

Like any dirty busines, I believe a lockout was always the plan. No better business than to pay employees with hundred dollar bills ripped in half and get away with it.

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11-30-2012, 02:42 PM
  #208
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According to the NHL revenue has exploded since the last lockout. This tells you that the owners ruined it again and instead of being reasonable in how they run their business, they get their money back the only way they can withoutout fighting the other owners for the cherry.

Like any dirty busines, I believe a lockout was always the plan. No better business than to pay employees with hundred dollar bills ripped in half and get away with it.
You sure it's all Bettmans fault that the NHLPA didn't start negotiating till 2 weeks before the training camps? No, they offered negotiations in the previous offseason.

Is it Daly's fault that the NHLPA comes with DELINKED proposals with guaranteed $ RAISES when the NHLPA already got paid 57% of all HRR? No.

Fehr called the league out because they were apparently bluffing with cancellation of the Winter classic. Guess what happened?
Fehr came out crying how the two sides are close, while Daly said they were far apart. After mediation - the mediators statement was - you guessed it far apart...

In the NBA and the NFL, players agreed to 48% & 50% of their revenue... Only the NHLPA thinks it's pie share should be 57% + guaranted raises (while not accepting risk if the revenues wouldn't grow)...

But it's all Bettmans fault, right?

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11-30-2012, 02:59 PM
  #209
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If the NHLPA wants the league to be solvent, then they are going to need to agree to a deal that allows the bottom feeding clubs to at least break even. Otherwise, they are looking at losing however many jobs are accounted for in clubs that are on the verge of becoming insolvent. Good luck convincing the owners the financially successful clubs that they need to subsidize the others.

When you look at those figures (assuming they are correct) for revenue split in NBA/NFL, you have to think the NHLPA would be ecstatic to get a 50/50 deal. Both of those leagues generate a larger amount of money from their TV deals alone.

They need to find a way that the lower tier teams can remain financially viable and that is going to mean less expense on player salaries. It is the only way in my opinion. The players can sit around and wait for ever but as has been stated ad naseum, they will only hurt themselves in doing so both long term and short term.

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Old
11-30-2012, 07:00 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by no name View Post
According to the NHL revenue has exploded since the last lockout. This tells you that the owners ruined it again and instead of being reasonable in how they run their business, they get their money back the only way they can withoutout fighting the other owners for the cherry.

Like any dirty busines, I believe a lockout was always the plan. No better business than to pay employees with hundred dollar bills ripped in half and get away with it.
For the 10 millionth time and counting. Revenue =/= profits.

Along with increasing revenue there has been an increase in:

travel costs
arena costs

And the big one

Player salaries

Revenues go up yes, but that doesn't mean anything, considering costs across the board have also spiked. Yes they make more revenue then before, but they also have to spend more on the same things that costed way less 6 to 7 years ago.

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Old
11-30-2012, 10:26 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
You sure it's all Bettmans fault that the NHLPA didn't start negotiating till 2 weeks before the training camps? No, they offered negotiations in the previous offseason.

Is it Daly's fault that the NHLPA comes with DELINKED proposals with guaranteed $ RAISES when the NHLPA already got paid 57% of all HRR? No.

Fehr called the league out because they were apparently bluffing with cancellation of the Winter classic. Guess what happened?
Fehr came out crying how the two sides are close, while Daly said they were far apart. After mediation - the mediators statement was - you guessed it far apart...

In the NBA and the NFL, players agreed to 48% & 50% of their revenue... Only the NHLPA thinks it's pie share should be 57% + guaranted raises (while not accepting risk if the revenues wouldn't grow)...

But it's all Bettmans fault, right?
Everyone knew the owners were locking out. Fehr said they would when they were signing these players. Everyone in the media predicted it the year before. There were no signs of anything but a lockout. Are you insinuating that Fehr essentially locked the players out by not trying? There is nothing but strategy in play there.

Also, I have never blamed GB once in this process.

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11-30-2012, 10:35 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
For the 10 millionth time and counting. Revenue =/= profits.

Along with increasing revenue there has been an increase in:

travel costs
arena costs

And the big one

Player salaries

Revenues go up yes, but that doesn't mean anything, considering costs across the board have also spiked. Yes they make more revenue then before, but they also have to spend more on the same things that costed way less 6 to 7 years ago.
How does revenue and profit have anything to do with my post? I'm the last guy you have to preach about that. Travel costs and arean costs are non negotiated business expenses. Owners have direct control of their spending. They spent without predicting the ramifications. All because they are having pissing matches with other owners with bigger dicks.

Also, the only blame I will give GB is his purposely manipulating how good of a job the NHL is doing. He led everyone to believe the NHL was making money. He preached "record revenue". That is carefully worded in order to make him and te NHL more desriable than it was. No other league feels the need to say anything like that. That stuff bites you in times like these because smart people on the other side will use his words to media, regardless of the true meaning of them.

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11-30-2012, 10:49 PM
  #213
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Excellent summary of why and how things have (not) progressed so far. I agree with everything these two guys said.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...-lockout-last/

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11-30-2012, 10:57 PM
  #214
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Record Revenue is due to inflation. If the NHL was making any sort of money; (even just a little) the league would be playing hockey by now.

The NFL and MLB didn't miss any games, cause there is a lot of money at stake(both sides).

You would be a complete idiot in the NFL and MLB to miss any games.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-30-2012 at 11:03 PM.
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11-30-2012, 11:37 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Record Revenue is due to inflation. If the NHL was making any sort of money; (even just a little) the league would be playing hockey by now.

The NFL and MLB didn't miss any games, cause there is a lot of money at stake(both sides).

You would be a complete idiot in the NFL and MLB to miss any games.
Yet somehow, Fehr managed to make it happen in MLB.

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12-01-2012, 02:47 AM
  #216
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A little funny side note.

If they have a deal in place by mid December, like I think they will.

Start the season January 1st.

The Cup Banner raising will be January 3rd..Against the Flyers (LOL).

Wouldn't that be something for Mike and Jeff.

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12-01-2012, 03:59 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A little funny side note.

If they have a deal in place by mid December, like I think they will.

Start the season January 1st.

The Cup Banner raising will be January 3rd..Against the Flyers (LOL).

Wouldn't that be something for Mike and Jeff.
Well this just got interesting.

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12-01-2012, 04:05 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Excellent summary of why and how things have (not) progressed so far. I agree with everything these two guys said.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...-lockout-last/
Lol I like how the ending just took a shot at NHL gold diggers.

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Old
12-01-2012, 11:52 AM
  #219
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Unbelievable. Now the PA is insisting they get to pick the owners that will attend the meeting but won't allow the NHL to pick which players the NHL would like to attend.


Last edited by Scottkmlps: 12-01-2012 at 12:03 PM.
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12-01-2012, 12:46 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A little funny side note.

If they have a deal in place by mid December, like I think they will.

Start the season January 1st.

The Cup Banner raising will be January 3rd..Against the Flyers (LOL).

Wouldn't that be something for Mike and Jeff.
Ah, I'd love that.

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Old
12-01-2012, 02:36 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A little funny side note.

If they have a deal in place by mid December, like I think they will.

Start the season January 1st.

The Cup Banner raising will be January 3rd..Against the Flyers (LOL).

Wouldn't that be something for Mike and Jeff.
So you're telling me there's a chance?

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12-01-2012, 04:06 PM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
A little funny side note.

If they have a deal in place by mid December, like I think they will.

Start the season January 1st.

The Cup Banner raising will be January 3rd..Against the Flyers (LOL).

Wouldn't that be something for Mike and Jeff.
It would also be Simmonds 1st return to LA. .... Ouch! lol

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Old
12-01-2012, 04:11 PM
  #223
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Fun theory, but can't see that happening. The two sides seem to be worlds apart. And if the season did start in January, fairly certain that Philly game would be wiped off the schedule and replaced by a conference matchup.

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12-01-2012, 04:13 PM
  #224
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Actually, the scheduled called for January 2, as I recall...or you may be right, January 3...

However, it is more than likely the entire schedule is scrapped and a new schedule made, which would probably eliminate inter-conference games completely.

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12-01-2012, 04:13 PM
  #225
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Fun theory, but can't see that happening. The two sides seem to be worlds apart. And if the season did start in January, fairly certain that Philly game would be wiped off the schedule and replaced by a conference matchup.
Yes, you beat me by 2 minutes.

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