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A Bad Lawyer Can Drag A Case For Years, A Good Lawyer Even Longer (CBA/Lockout) XXVI

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:12 PM
  #126
mossey3535
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Originally Posted by MVP of West Hollywd View Post
I think a big reason for the players going along with this, is setting themselves up for future negotiations. Like the idea that if they gave in and accepted 50, then if they cave in as easily next time the owners will take them down to 43, then the time after that to 35, etc. Basically saying that negotiations wise they have to set a hard standard these battles, or else the owners will know they can easily run over and take advantage of the players the next CBA that expires
If the teams were really so bent on getting the players to <40%, they wouldn't be offering to honour the face value of contracts.

If the owners intend to do this next time around and they can justify it to themselves financially (e.g. how much lost season it would take to get the players to take less versus how much revenue is lost), it won't matter how 'hard' this bargaining is. That kind of group won't be deterred if their goal is really that malicious.

I think people invoke this idea because they want this thing to make sense when in reality it is stupid and pointless.

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11-11-2012, 08:12 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by MVP of West Hollywd View Post
I think a big reason for the players going along with this, is setting themselves up for future negotiations. Like the idea that if they gave in and accepted 50, then if they cave in as easily next time the owners will take them down to 43, then the time after that to 35, etc. Basically saying that negotiations wise they have to set a hard standard these battles, or else the owners will know they can easily run over and take advantage of the players the next CBA that expires
Well the players sat out for a whole season last time and the owners still locked them out this time around. So is the plan for them to sit out two seasons this time? If this goes longer than one season, then I can agree that they're trying to teach the owners a lesson, but at this moment, I don't think they're teaching the owners anything.

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11-11-2012, 08:14 PM
  #128
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Is there a foreseeable downside to charging the stated amount on the contract as the cap hit for a given year, instead of the average?

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
Someone care to recap today's events for me? I know that they met, and by some talk there was another offer presented?
No proposals, they talked about how firm the NHL's stances are on the remai ing contracting issues. Apparantly, for now, they are firm. Fehr doesn't like it, Daly says issues are very important to owners.

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11-11-2012, 08:25 PM
  #130
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Any update on when they are meeting again? It seems like they should be inking the deal already, then Fehr intervenes complaining about how the players should get raises and own the teams.

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11-11-2012, 08:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Any update on when they are meeting again? It seems like they should be inking the deal already, then Fehr intervenes complaining about how the players should get raises and own the teams.
Fehr said in that interview he didn't expect it to be too long.

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11-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #132
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Keep holding out Fehr, your people lose more and more money by the day.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:30 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
How? Where is this money coming from, cuz the owners sure as hell aren't going to give them full pay for a shortened season.

If the players honestly think that they will get full salary + guaranteed raises (which is what the NHL keeps proposing) they're delusional.
There's no way they honestly believe this. I understand there's a huge variance in education levels in the PA, but still... no way.

The only way they're getting 100% of their deals now is for the season to be cancelled and the contracts tolled. Any other way, it's impossible. And they're still not getting 100% that way because it's one year off of their careers, losing a year of earning potential.

If he did get them to believe this, eventually they're going to burn him at the stake.

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11-11-2012, 08:37 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
There's no way they honestly believe this. I understand there's a huge variance in education levels in the PA, but still... no way.

The only way they're getting 100% of their deals now is for the season to be cancelled and the contracts tolled. Any other way, it's impossible. And they're still not getting 100% that way because it's one year off of their careers, losing a year of earning potential.

If he did get them to believe this, eventually they're going to burn him at the stake.
If he can sell that idea, he can sell them anything. Survival instincts never die.

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Old
11-11-2012, 08:45 PM
  #135
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Because it's usually the third year of an ELC where the player produced the numbers to get the big contracts.
Do you think that started in July 2007 when Edmonton signed Tomas Vanek and then Dustin Penner to those huge offer sheets? Before that I can't recall players coming off their ELC who got huge raises in their salaries.

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11-11-2012, 08:47 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by MVP of West Hollywd View Post
I think a big reason for the players going along with this, is setting themselves up for future negotiations. Like the idea that if they gave in and accepted 50, then if they cave in as easily next time the owners will take them down to 43, then the time after that to 35, etc. Basically saying that negotiations wise they have to set a hard standard these battles, or else the owners will know they can easily run over and take advantage of the players the next CBA that expires
How did not caving on a salary cap work out for them last time around? How would anything that happens now help them in X years?

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11-11-2012, 08:52 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Do you think that started in July 2007 when Edmonton signed Tomas Vanek and then Dustin Penner to those huge offer sheets? Before that I can't recall players coming off their ELC who got huge raises in their salaries.
WHat's a huge raise to you? HOw about Evander Kane getting 5.2M (cap hit) after 1 30 goal season?

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11-11-2012, 08:53 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
No proposals, they talked about how firm the NHL's stances are on the remai ing contracting issues. Apparantly, for now, they are firm. Fehr doesn't like it, Daly says issues are very important to owners.
I just have a hard time believing this is true. The owners have showed flexibility on nine-figure items, so why would they take a hard line on the details of contracting terms?

IMO, these issues are where the owners are simply digging in their heels and waiting for more deadline pressure. It's really hard to believe they're not planning to concede a single thing. Likewise the players on the structure of Make Whole.

So we wait. After the cluster that was Friday, I'm just trying to stay above the emotionally charged bickering. None of it appears to have real substance... just window dressing that agitates each side.

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11-11-2012, 08:54 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by supahdupah View Post
How did not caving on a salary cap work out for them last time around? How would anything that happens now help them in X years?
Only thing that could help them is to sign a very long term CBA (10yr+) But they are insistent on signing a short one.(4-5yr)

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11-11-2012, 08:55 PM
  #140
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Fehr didn't come out of retirement to lose and Bettman is Bettman. We're screwed, only got seven ****ing seasons.

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11-11-2012, 08:58 PM
  #141
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Fehr didn't come out of retirement to lose and Bettman is Bettman. We're screwed, only got seven ****ing seasons.
We may never get hockey again if Fehr keeps his act up

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11-11-2012, 09:02 PM
  #142
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Some of you are really good at over reacting to things. If they talk for 8 hours it's we're getting a deal tomorrow. If they have one bad short day it's season over. If you actually listened to both interviews it doesn't sound nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.

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11-11-2012, 09:03 PM
  #143
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Some of you are really good at over reacting to things. If they talk for 8 hours it's we're getting a deal tomorrow. If they have one bad short day it's season over. If you actually listened to both interviews it doesn't sound nearly as bad as some of you are making it out to be.
The Pa keeps asking for more. They will never settle. They couldn't care less if they play this season

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11-11-2012, 09:05 PM
  #144
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At this point don't trust what either side says anymore its all posturing bs. I, like many others have said in this thread believe that a deal is much,much closer then we think. My guess is that the PA is trying to squeeze every bit of juice they can muster out of the owners considering the owners have begun movement. I said it before and i will still say ill be surprised this time next sunday if we don't have a deal.


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Old
11-11-2012, 09:05 PM
  #145
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The Pa keeps asking for more. They will never settle. They couldn't care less if they play this season
They aren't asking for more from what I got out of the interviews. They will push this as far as it can go then settle. Why sign a deal now when you can talk for two more weeks or so and see what you can squeeze out of the other side?

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11-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #146
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The Pa keeps asking for more. They will never settle. They couldn't care less if they play this season
They keep asking for more and more because the NHL is starting to give, wouldn't you try to get as much out of something you can if you were negotiating against someone?

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11-11-2012, 09:06 PM
  #147
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They're both evil in their own way although I don't think that's the correct word to use here. One of them just happened to choose Thelma and Louise as their negotiators...
Best analogy I've seen yet Jeety. Which one drove the car over the cliff? Whoever it was -that is Donny.

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #148
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ive been out of town so my attention to this whole matter has been very little. am i correct in assuming nothing good has come of this week of talks? any remaining reason to be optimistic?

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Old
11-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #149
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They keep asking for more and more because the NHL is starting to give, wouldn't you try to get as much out of something you can if you were negotiating against someone?
That reminds me how the NHL got that 24% rollback during the 2004-2005 lockout. I remember they said the NHLPA proposed that in December 2004. However months later when they agreed to the CBA the NHL added in the 24% rollback. So this time around if the NHL is willing to give up some things to get a deal done, I don't see anything wrong with the NHLPA trying to get as much from them as possible.

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11-11-2012, 09:16 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by MVP of West Hollywd View Post
I think a big reason for the players going along with this, is setting themselves up for future negotiations. Like the idea that if they gave in and accepted 50, then if they cave in as easily next time the owners will take them down to 43, then the time after that to 35, etc. Basically saying that negotiations wise they have to set a hard standard these battles, or else the owners will know they can easily run over and take advantage of the players the next CBA that expires
How many of these players will even be around for the next CBA? Especially if it ends up being a longer deal? A lot of the players from 05-06 are gone already. The players on a macro might get a better deal over the long run by holding out, problem is on a micro level the current players are probably mostly going to end up net losers regardless, and may be better off taking a deal now.

The longer this goes for a lot of guys they will end up setting up a better deal for guys coming up to take their job. Of course that doesn't help them because they will end up losing a year salary and end up without a job if this goes nuclear.

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