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Old
11-16-2012, 02:01 PM
  #751
ginner classic
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Of course he's not in Luongo's league. Who said he is? I'm just saying he's far from a bust many think he is and has nice upside.

Besides, what does Luongo do? Help us to fight for 8th and get a worse draft pick?

Why not play your young players? The Leafs are a rebuilding team.
If Burke wanted to rebuild the Oiler way he would never have shipped out the picks that became Hamilton and Seguin for an established young top line winger. He is committed to a course of action that involves filling big holes with legit talent that can help them win now, while still not destroying the future. He has done a decent job and now just has two glaring holes to fill instead of six. Luongo this year and maybe Getzlaf next. Done.

The leafs have not made the playoffs in seven years. If the Leafs are going to go full Oiler, they will not be doing it with Burke at the helm.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:07 PM
  #752
Intense Rage
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Im saying, the Hawks possibly going aftet Roy/Ribeiro could hve been what made Bolland available
(ie trading for Roy/Ribeiro was contingent on them trading Bolland for Luongo).
And why would we need such a contingency exist in the first place? We can easily accommodate either of those players along with Bolland. Especially since we have a hole at 2C and Bolland plays 3C.

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11-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
And why would we need such a contingency exist in the first place? We can easily accommodate either of those players along with Bolland. Especially since we have a hole at 2C and Bolland plays 3C.
Because goaltending is a weakness, and you have Kreuger ho is more than capable of a 3C role?

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:19 PM
  #754
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Tanking is a terrible way to "rebuild". Nobody wants to play for a team that loses on purpose, drafts are far from guarantees and you will likely lose as much talent from FA's going elsewhere as you will gain from high picks. Try to win every year and play the best hand you can, eventually good things will happen.

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Old
11-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #755
Intense Rage
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Because goaltending is a weakness, and you have Kreuger ho is more than capable of a 3C role?
That does not explain why we would do a Ribeiro/Roy trade contingent on the Luongo deal going through. If the Hawks management viewed either Roy or Ribeiro as worthwhile acquisitions, they would done that trade whether they had Luongo or not.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:02 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by KeslerKrony View Post
Luongo/Schneider
Kesler
Kassian

for

Kovalchuk
Zajac (going to UFA)


Win the cup.

P.S. Value is a bit off, but at least I added something of value on both sides.
I understand your humor, and find this funny too. Thank you for the deep belly laugh; it's been a long day.

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Old
11-16-2012, 03:51 PM
  #757
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How awesome would it be if Gillis had leaked those Bolland rumours himself just to **** with Vigneault? AV picks up the paper and thinks "****, not that ugly dude with a face a only a mother could love and a brain the size of a bird seed. I'd rather have Hodgson back FFS!"

I agree it doesn't make much sense from Chicago's side, but like someone else said it's possible Blackhawks management thought it would be much easier to fill a hole at center than a hole at goalie. And from Vancouver's side it actually would make a ton of sense. Regardless of all this 2nd line RW talk, I maintain our biggest need is a legit middle six center. Lapierre and Malhotra are best suited for 4th line duties, and Schroeder shouldn't be relied on to center a bottom six line as a rookie.

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:31 PM
  #758
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From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:44 PM
  #759
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Just heard on the radio Bob Hartley say that using the puck system (advanced stats, shift tracking) they found that Roberto Luongo had the best save % on 'first shots' (not rebounds) in the NHL... Thought that was interesting...

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Old
11-16-2012, 05:51 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Just heard on the radio Bob Hartley say that using the puck system (advanced stats, shift tracking) they found that Roberto Luongo had the best save % on 'first shots' (not rebounds) in the NHL... Thought that was interesting...
That's a crazy stat. That says two things.....Lou has rebound control issues or is not well placed to make the second save (flopping) and/or the Canucks D is bad at clearance and boxing out (which we know to be true). I think it's a combination of the two.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
If Burke wanted to rebuild the Oiler way he would never have shipped out the picks that became Hamilton and Seguin for an established young top line winger. He is committed to a course of action that involves filling big holes with legit talent that can help them win now, while still not destroying the future. He has done a decent job and now just has two glaring holes to fill instead of six. Luongo this year and maybe Getzlaf next. Done.

The leafs have not made the playoffs in seven years. If the Leafs are going to go full Oiler, they will not be doing it with Burke at the helm.
He hasn't been doing that though.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:19 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He hasn't been doing that though.
Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Liles, JVR.....

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:27 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Just heard on the radio Bob Hartley say that using the puck system (advanced stats, shift tracking) they found that Roberto Luongo had the best save % on 'first shots' (not rebounds) in the NHL... Thought that was interesting...
I completely believe this. The canuck D is pretty poor defensively (other than Hamhuis), especially at clearing rebounds. It always irks me when people claim Luongo has it easy due to the quality of the team, instead of realizing that Luongo is the main factor in that 'team'.

And just because Cory Schneider looks ready to be one of the best in the world doesnt mean that Luongo is washed up. There was a 20 game stretch last year where he (and cory) literally stole every game, the team played like crap, barely squeeked into OT, and pulled out win after win. Flat unsipired hockey completely saved by all-world goaltending, every night.

If Luongo can keep winning 30 games a year for a few more years, he'll end up SECOND in all time NHL wins for a goalie. 3rd is about the worst he can do, and thats if he turns to garbage soon, but as a dedicated athlete and professional with a drive to win and immense pride, thats not going to happen. His character is one of his best assets.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:27 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First
none of these teams will offer up an unprotected first. especially the leafs and edmonton. and in the edmonton proposal you want 2 non protected firsts + hemsky? lol

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First
No way from Edmonton. Maybe 2 of the 4 in any variation but not giving up a top 6 forward, good wing prospect, very solid d prospect and a 1st

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:35 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
How awesome would it be if Gillis had leaked those Bolland rumours himself just to **** with Vigneault? AV picks up the paper and thinks "****, not that ugly dude with a face a only a mother could love and a brain the size of a bird seed. I'd rather have Hodgson back FFS!"

I agree it doesn't make much sense from Chicago's side, but like someone else said it's possible Blackhawks management thought it would be much easier to fill a hole at center than a hole at goalie. And from Vancouver's side it actually would make a ton of sense. Regardless of all this 2nd line RW talk, I maintain our biggest need is a legit middle six center. Lapierre and Malhotra are best suited for 4th line duties, and Schroeder shouldn't be relied on to center a bottom six line as a rookie.
lets he honest, AV would probably like Marchand, Bolland or Eager more than a soon to be superstar rookie like Yakupov.

Just an odd fellow

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:39 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
none of these teams will offer up an unprotected first. especially the leafs and edmonton. and in the edmonton proposal you want 2 non protected firsts + hemsky? lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
No way from Edmonton. Maybe 2 of the 4 in any variation but not giving up a top 6 forward, good wing prospect, very solid d prospect and a 1st
Are you guys missing the the "or" in the Edmonton proposal?

I actually don't like any of the proposals as a Canucks fan except for the Washington trade.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can the profitable teams just agree to give a player each to the non-profitable teams so we can get the season going? The Canucks fan just give Luongo to Florida, Chicago can give Kane to Phoenix, NYR can give a dman to NYI, Montreal can give Plekanec to CBJ...away we go.

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:42 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
lets he honest, AV would probably like Marchand, Bolland or Eager more than a soon to be superstar rookie like Yakupov.

Just an odd fellow
marchand and bolland were critical pieces in cup wins...

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Old
11-16-2012, 06:43 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Are you guys missing the the "or" in the Edmonton proposal?

I actually don't like any of the proposals as a Canucks fan except for the Washington trade.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can the profitable teams just agree to give a player each to the non-profitable teams so we can get the season going? The Canucks fan just give Luongo to Florida, Chicago can give Kane to Phoenix, NYR can give a dman to NYI, Montreal can give Plekanec to CBJ...away we go.
I read it to be Hemsky, 1st or Mps, Marincin, 1st in that theres a chose between mps and the 1st. Not that its two different proposals

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:06 PM
  #770
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A first, and a low end prospect would be fair I think.

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Old
11-16-2012, 07:19 PM
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First
No, preferrably no (unless we're in a no win situation and keeping him, ahem, "isn't an option"), yes(!!!), and sure.

That Toronto proposal seems...very weak compared to the Washington and Edmonton ones you're asking for, unless the slashes were supposed to be commas.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:15 PM
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First
Garbage proposals. Only one that won't make people annoyed is the Washington one.

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Old
11-16-2012, 08:57 PM
  #773
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
From Toronto:
One of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson, Finn, Non-protected first.

From Florida:
Petrovic, Theodore, Non-protected first

From Washington:
Green, Neuvirth (for Lou and Raymond)

From Edmonton:
Hemsky, Non Protected First or MPS, Marincin, Non-protected First
From Toronto or Edmonton I'd expect Hemsky/Lupul as a starting point, with a protected 1st as a likely secondary piece.

Green could work, but I don't think Washington's interested; it would also mean we have to dump Ballard for cheap.

From Florida Petrovic + 1st is fair for them, but as their need for Luongo isn't as great(unless the management has lowered expectations on Markstrom) I don't think he'll end up there. Versteeg would be the ideal target, but unlikely.

And on the off chance Philly buys out Bryz or something, Voracek + 1st would be the return I'd be looking for.

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:04 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
I know what a rumor is, and this one isn't even worth mentioning as it seems like utter nonsense. Should we start discussing Eklund rumors next? Or how about Samjam?

No, I'd rather discuss things based completely on fan bias. Fabrications without _any_ insider knowledge. Yes, that seems much more prudent. Much more logical. Clearly the reporters out there have nothing on your inside sources IR...


Quote:
I believe such rumors should not be the basis of discussion of Luongo's value in this thread.


You can believe whatever you want. Nobody is saying otherwise. By that same token, other people can believe what they want, and if they want to put more stock in the reports made by legit sources, instead of IR's insider opinion, they can do so. The only difference is that this latter group is using a secondary source to form their viewpoint, while you continue to use your own bias. Can you blame them for not buying into your insider knowledge?

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:08 PM
  #775
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Just trying to dispel some myths in this thread(s).

Reasons WHY Brian Burke is NOT under pressure to trade for Roberto Luongo, while we all know he is interested. (just because most conversation is about Leafs acquiring Luongo).

#1. Kessel, Phaneuf, & Lupul will walk for nothing if team keeps missing the postseason. What is important to remember is that all these players will be approached about extensions a year prior to or during the season and if they do not want to resign then all can be moved for significant assets (decide for yourself). Lupul can be traded without restriction. Phaneuf can be traded without restriction, although being team captain his movement is least likely. Kessel can be moved but his limitation is unknown. However, if the new CBA changes RFA status up one more year, Kessel will not be a UFA, rather and RFA and cannot walk. Either way, the likelihood of them walking and leaving the Leafs in a whole is extremely low and close to impossible.

#2. Goalie Market and future UFA’s. If this season is played as a shortened season, then it is possible that there are other goalies on the market to tandem with Reimer. It is hard to know but a package could be made and not set the Leafs back. It may be more of a risk but Brian Burke is known for taking risks. If the lockout goes all season, then the following goalies will potentially be UFA’s for Burke to target: Niklas Backstrom, Tim Thomas, Nikolai Khabibulin, Evgeni Nabokov, Jimmy Howard, Mike Smith, Jose Theodore, Ray Emery, etc.

#3. Burke Needs Luongo to save his job. Speculative at best. Refer to reasons #1 and #2. It's up to Luongo if he wants to come to Toronto, perhaps Florida. Really the decision is not in Brian's hand to make. All he can do is make the best offer he is comfortable with, and Gillis will judge based on ultimately what few offers he gets outlined by Luongo's contractual limitation (5 team trade list.)

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