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Brunet: Perezhogin among the elite

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Old
02-08-2005, 04:56 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le depisteur
:lol
Thank you. You are one of the few habs fans that thinks Murray is a joke, and I am pleased that you know that Murray isn't tough. He's a lazy player, and the press would eat him up.

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02-08-2005, 04:59 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Thank you. You are one of the few habs fans that thinks Murray is a joke, and I am pleased that you know that Murray isn't tough. He's a lazy player, and the press would eat him up.
I'd take the LA Kings version of G. Murray, but I'd pass on the Bruins version.

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02-08-2005, 05:00 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Thank you. You are one of the few habs fans that thinks Murray is a joke, and I am pleased that you know that Murray isn't tough. He's a lazy player, and the press would eat him up.
Hes not the only one.........

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02-08-2005, 05:00 PM
  #79
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Bulis will probably stay on the third line when the NHL will resume is activities but this time, he will have Bonk between him and another good foward(probably Hossa, Higgins or Sundstrom) so he might put better numbers on the scroring sheet! He's going nowhere after his awesome year in Europe!

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02-08-2005, 05:04 PM
  #80
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Not saying that he is anywhere near untouchable but Jan Bulis is one of the last starting forwards that I would be dangling as possible trade bait.

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02-08-2005, 05:05 PM
  #81
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Bulis is a keeper,he just has to put in a few more of his chances(which he has plenty of) and he'll gain some more fans.If your getting chances your doing something right.

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02-08-2005, 05:09 PM
  #82
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Jan Bulis is 26 years old. The guy is about to enter his prime. He’s having a great year playing on the top offensive line in the Czech league. Over the next few years, Bulis has the potential to be one the premier 3rd line players in the game. We would be absolutely crazy, crazy, crazy to trade Jan Bulis at this stage of his career.

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02-08-2005, 05:29 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 19bruins19
Thank you. You are one of the few habs fans that thinks Murray is a joke, and I am pleased that you know that Murray isn't tough. He's a lazy player, and the press would eat him up.
Add me to the list. I'd stay very far away from the kind of contract he's asking for.

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Old
02-08-2005, 05:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Guy Caballero
I'd take the LA Kings version of G. Murray, but I'd pass on the Bruins version.
The L.A. Glen Murray spent plenty of time in the coach’s doghouse for “effort” issues. I wouldn’t touch him with a ten-foot pole.

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02-08-2005, 05:55 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by E = CH²
Add me to the list. I'd stay very far away from the kind of contract he's asking for.

Add me to the list as well. It makes you wonder what the hell some Habs fans were watching (and seeing from Murray) the last 2 playoffs series against the Bruins. I have no idea why anyone would want him. Some fans are blind and just want anyone who has "size" I guess, regardless of how the player uses it.

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02-08-2005, 06:18 PM
  #86
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i can't wait to see what he can do in the nhl

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Old
02-08-2005, 06:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mooch
I guess its a matter of personal opinion, because he has shown me can play both ends of the ice.........I see him as a consistent 15+ goal guy, consistent 20+ assist guy while providing a great defensive instinct. He can also play the PK, and fill in on the top 6 quite nicely. Obvoiusly those numbers are +/- depending on the situation. Again, its matter of opinion.......and all should be well respected!
Absolutely not. I utterly refuse to respect anyones opinion but my own.

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Old
02-08-2005, 06:37 PM
  #88
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Bulis is in my book, on any team (good or bad), 1/3 of a very good 3rd line. He's one of the best forecheckers we have, creating havock in the offensive zone with his speed and coming back hard to backcheck, playing PK and putting one in once in a while. Next year, this is all that should and likely will be asked of him.

Bonk is 2/3 of that very good 3rd line. Add a bit of fairly talented sandpaper (Moreau/Langenbrunner style) and this becomes one of the best checking lines in the NHL.

No need to tweak what doesn't have to be fixed. It's the holes we have to plug (enforcer, grit up front).

And for the ones that are starting to get the prospect fever once again, you have to realize that neither Gainey or Julien is interested in blindly inserting 4-5 rookies in the lineup and watch them swim or drown. This isn't management's philosophy at all. If you want to see such questionable asset management, go cheer for Florida.

There is no way we'll see all of Perezhogin, Higgins, Hossa and Plekanec play on the starting roster, along with other younsters like Dagenais, Ribeiro, Ryder and Ward. Just no way, it would be non-sense. This team would get crushed on most nights. Julien loves his vets, so you can be sure he will start guys like Sundstrom regularly whether we like it or not, and might even ask Bob a bit of help on the UFA market.

1 or 2 of those prospects should IMO see regular ice time by mid-season, my guess will be Higgins and Perezhogin, the other ones will either sit on their ***** in the stands waiting for injuries, platoon with the under-acheivers, be sent back or just plain traded. There is not enough leadership and veteran presence on this team to babysit 6-7 greensters (if we include the ones on D), unless you want a very good spot in the 2006 draft.

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Old
02-08-2005, 06:51 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
Absolutely not. I utterly refuse to respect anyones opinion but my own.
Is this supposed to be a joke, because that comment by wasent directed at you, but rather a in general comment.....

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02-08-2005, 06:53 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Bulis is in my book, on any team (good or bad), 1/3 of a very good 3rd line. He's one of the best forecheckers we have, creating havock in the offensive zone with his speed and coming back hard to backcheck, playing PK and putting one in once in a while. Next year, this is all that should and likely will be asked of him.

Bonk is 2/3 of that very good 3rd line. Add a bit of fairly talented sandpaper (Moreau/Langenbrunner style) and this becomes one of the best checking lines in the NHL.

No need to tweak what doesn't have to be fixed. It's the holes we have to plug (enforcer, grit up front).

And for the ones that are starting to get the prospect fever once again, you have to realize that neither Gainey or Julien is interested in blindly inserting 4-5 rookies in the lineup and watch them swim or drown. This isn't management's philosophy at all. If you want to see such questionable asset management, go cheer for Florida.

There is no way we'll see all of Perezhogin, Higgins, Hossa and Plekanec play on the starting roster, along with other younsters like Dagenais, Ribeiro, Ryder and Ward. Just no way, it would be non-sense. This team would get crushed on most nights. Julien loves his vets, so you can be sure he will start guys like Sundstrom regularly whether we like it or not, and might even ask Bob a bit of help on the UFA market.

1 or 2 of those prospects should IMO see regular ice time by mid-season, my guess will be Higgins and Perezhogin, the other ones will either sit on their ***** in the stands waiting for injuries, platoon with the under-acheivers, be sent back or just plain traded. There is not enough leadership and veteran presence on this team to babysit 6-7 greensters (if we include the ones on D), unless you want a very good spot in the 2006 draft.
That's sensible. I've always expected to see Perezhogin get some good icetime pretty much right away, but everyone else I expect to be eased in. See one or two (usually one, especially at the start of the season) of Hossa, Pleks and Higgins playing in the bottom 6, occasionally getting into the top 6 if someone else is underperforming.

As the season goes on, I expect one of them to start playing well and see more ice. If by the end of the season, Hossa, Perezhogin and one of Higgins and Plekanec is playing regularly, even just on the 4th line, I'll be very, very pleased with the progress they've made.

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02-08-2005, 06:55 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooch
Is this supposed to be a joke, because that comment by wasent directed at you, but rather a in general comment.....
yeah, it was a joke.

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02-08-2005, 06:55 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky
yeah, it was a joke.
Oh........

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02-08-2005, 08:00 PM
  #93
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Greats news about Perez!!!!!



Sumhabs

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Old
02-08-2005, 08:33 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
Bulis is in my book, on any team (good or bad), 1/3 of a very good 3rd line. He's one of the best forecheckers we have, creating havock in the offensive zone with his speed and coming back hard to backcheck, playing PK and putting one in once in a while. Next year, this is all that should and likely will be asked of him.

Bonk is 2/3 of that very good 3rd line. Add a bit of fairly talented sandpaper (Moreau/Langenbrunner style) and this becomes one of the best checking lines in the NHL.

No need to tweak what doesn't have to be fixed. It's the holes we have to plug (enforcer, grit up front).

And for the ones that are starting to get the prospect fever once again, you have to realize that neither Gainey or Julien is interested in blindly inserting 4-5 rookies in the lineup and watch them swim or drown. This isn't management's philosophy at all. If you want to see such questionable asset management, go cheer for Florida.

There is no way we'll see all of Perezhogin, Higgins, Hossa and Plekanec play on the starting roster, along with other younsters like Dagenais, Ribeiro, Ryder and Ward. Just no way, it would be non-sense. This team would get crushed on most nights. Julien loves his vets, so you can be sure he will start guys like Sundstrom regularly whether we like it or not, and might even ask Bob a bit of help on the UFA market.

1 or 2 of those prospects should IMO see regular ice time by mid-season, my guess will be Higgins and Perezhogin, the other ones will either sit on their ***** in the stands waiting for injuries, platoon with the under-acheivers, be sent back or just plain traded. There is not enough leadership and veteran presence on this team to babysit 6-7 greensters (if we include the ones on D), unless you want a very good spot in the 2006 draft.
I respectfully disagree.

Other teams have done it. I know it's a bit tired as an exemple but the 86 habs did it, they did it with more rookies, and not only did they make the playoffs but they won the cup. Also there were a lot of young players that weren't rookies on that team. Carbonneau and Chelios were still very young. Sure there were great leadership too. But ours isn't so bad with Gainey at the top, Julien, Green and Jarvis as coaches, and guys like Souray and Koivu.

If they are good enough to be on the roster they will make it. It's as simple as that. Let's look at last season for exemple :

We had Ryder, Ribeiro (had barely ever been given a big role before), Hossa, Ward and Hainsey in the line up to start the season. That's not a whole lot of NHL experience. It didn't take long before proven NHLers like Perreault and Audette took a backseat. Balej, Plekanec and Higgins also played a couple of games each and were given a small chance to prove they belong.

I'd consider a more experienced Hossa, Perezhogin, Higgins and Plekanec to be equally as good as a group as last year crop of youngsters. You don't leave players ready to take the next step in the AHL just because you might finish one spot higher in the standings. Again look at last year, we had guys like Audette, Perreault, Dagenais, Kilger and Bulis in our top 6 at various points in the season. Not a whole bunch of quality. Especially when surrounded by inexperienced youngsters like Ribs and Ryder. And it didn't prevent us from finishing 7th in a deep eastern conference.

Let's not forget that we are still rebuilding. And that we have capable people in place able to recognize talent. They're not going to blindly let them "swim or drown". If they can't cut it because they're still not good enough, then by all means send them all back into the AHL.

But the management has already said that Higgins and Perezhogin would be given a chance to make it. Hell Perezhogin was almost promised a top 6 role. Granted that's supposing he proves himself in training camp and at the beginning of the season but the intention is there. Nothing in their progression so far this year has proven they aren't worthy of that chance, quite the opposite. Barring an awful showing in training camp, I'd be surprised not to see them make the big club from the start.

And since both Hossa and Hainsey can't be sent down without having to clear waivers. They will both be given a last chance to make it. THEY are at the point where it's sink or swim. They play well and become parts of the organisation, or they'll be packing their stuff to play in Hamilton, Europe or somewhere else in the NHL.

I for one am not super optimistic about Plekanec's chances to make it. But I don't rule this out. If the management judges he has nothing to learn in the AHL, he could always make it on the roster as the 13th or 14th forward. He could be useful in case of injuries.

Let's compare the line up of last season before Koivu came back to a projected "we would get destroyed with 5 youngsters" 05-06 line up :

Hossa-Ribeiro-Zednik
Ryder-Perreault-Audette
Bulis-Juneau-Dackel
Langdon/Dwyer-Bégin-Ward

Souray-Quintal
Markov-Rivet
Bouillon-Brisebois
Hainsey

Theodore
Garon

*keep in mind they were more or less a 0.500 team before Koivu came back, and that was before Julien found his groove with his line combinations and before he identified who's who.

to

Zednik-Koivu-Perezhogin
Higgins-Ribeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Sundstrom
Hossa-Bégin-Ward
Two of Dagenais/Plekanec/Ivanan(waiver enforcer pick up)

Markov-Rivet
Souray-Komisarek
Bouillon-Brisebois
Hainsey

Theodore
Huet

Julien and co could easily use the first 20 games as a testing ground and see if this line up can win games without screwing the season. If anything it's much much better than last season line up at the beginning of the season, and comparable to the one we had without Kovalev. The one with which we finished 7th in an ultra competitive eastern conference.

EDIT : I think Kilger never saw time in the top 6 though, that was 2 years ago.

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Old
02-08-2005, 08:45 PM
  #95
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I'd just like to add that with good coaching (while Julien likes his vets, he also proved he liked youngsters too when they have the right attitude and when they perform up to NHL standards) and good goaltending, an inexperienced team becomes much better.

And altough Perezhogin and Higgins are on the top 6 in my highly hypothetical scenario, they don't have to stay there for 82 games. They don't have to start there either. And even if they do, we wouldn't need them to score 50 pts a piece to make the playoffs. The pressure to produce would lie on guys like Koivu, Zednik, Ribeiro, Bonk, Ryder and Bulis.

I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried with my hypothetical scenario. If things went wrong they could always bring Dagenais back on the 2nd line, have Bulis play with Koivu and Zednik and give more of a backseat to whoever of the youngsters produce the most.

Also one last thing that's important not to forget. If we don't have our youngsters playing now we're only pushing back the problem. They'll have to get NHL experience one day, and with Chipper, Kostitsyn and co coming up, it'll just make things harder down the road. That's a factor that needs to be considered too.

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02-08-2005, 09:34 PM
  #96
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We're not in rebuilding mode. If so why did we resign Sundstrom and traded for Bonk? We have a good young core and yet the Habs should challenge for a playoff spot.

This will be the lineup at the start of the season

Hossa-Koivu-Zednik
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Sundstrom
Plekanec-Bégin-Ward

Markov-Rivet
Souray-Brisebois
Bouillon-Komisarek
Hainsey

This will be the lineup at the end of the season

Bulis-Koivu-Zednik
Hossa-Ribeiro-Ryder
Higgins-Bonk-Sundstrom
Bégin-Plekanec-Ward

Souray-Brisebois
Markov-Komisarek
Hainsey-Rivet
Bouillon

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02-08-2005, 09:37 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
We're not in rebuilding mode. If so why did we resign Sundstrom and traded for Bonk? We have a good young core and yet the Habs should challenge for a playoff spot.

This will be the lineup at the start of the season

Hossa-Koivu-Zednik
Dagenais-Ribeiro-Ryder
Bulis-Bonk-Sundstrom
Plekanec-Bégin-Ward

Markov-Rivet
Souray-Brisebois
Bouillon-Komisarek
Hainsey

This will be the lineup at the end of the season

Bulis-Koivu-Zednik
Hossa-Ribeiro-Ryder
Higgins-Bonk-Sundstrom
Bégin-Plekanec-Ward

Souray-Brisebois
Markov-Komisarek
Hainsey-Rivet
Bouillon

Wheres Perezhogin?

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Old
02-08-2005, 09:56 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
We're not in rebuilding mode. If so why did we resign Sundstrom and traded for Bonk? We have a good young core and yet the Habs should challenge for a playoff spot.
I think we have a different opinion of what rebuilding is. We're in the final but most important step of the rebuild. We got the prospects, now we've got to help them take the next step in the NHL. Acquiring good established veterans like Bonk and Sundstrom is a part of the rebuild. Rebuilding doesn't mean trading away every vets and going with an all rookie roster. You have to surround your talented guys with quality vets if you have them, and if you don't you have to acquire them one way or another.

There's no doubt in my mind we're making the playoffs next season, with or without 4-5 rookies in the line up. If we remain relatively healthy of course and if our established players don't underachieve baldy.

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Old
02-08-2005, 09:56 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Other teams have done it. I know it's a bit tired as an exemple but the 86 habs did it, they did it with more rookies, and not only did they make the playoffs but they won the cup. Also there were a lot of young players that weren't rookies on that team. Carbonneau and Chelios were still very young. Sure there were great leadership too. But ours isn't so bad with Gainey at the top, Julien, Green and Jarvis as coaches, and guys like Souray and Koivu.
I just don't think you can compare the 86' squad's leadership with today's version of the Habs. IMO it's not even close. And my opinion wouldn't be the same if there was loads of leadership in this room like we had in 1986. But it isn't the case, and I feel this team doesn't have the backbone to have a handful of mistake prone rookies all take the plunge at the same time. They're good and talented, but just like Ryder last year, they are going to have to go through a learning curve in which they will get schooled a few times by experienced opponents. You don't want this happening when the leadership in the room is at best, average. It's a receipe for disaster.

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02-08-2005, 10:18 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH²
Also one last thing that's important not to forget. If we don't have our youngsters playing now we're only pushing back the problem. They'll have to get NHL experience one day, and with Chipper, Kostitsyn and co coming up, it'll just make things harder down the road. That's a factor that needs to be considered too.
It's not about not giving them NHL experience, it's about slowly easing them in, and not all at the same time. Let's trade for or sign a couple character guys when the NHL resumes to better surround those youngsters and I will change my tune. But as it stands, I'm not convinced.

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