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Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

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11-19-2012, 12:12 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Well as Oiler fans we hope, but with league parity there will be years that will provide serveral playoff rounds and likely years that will result in only a single round and 2 games...*gulp*
Which is one of the reasons I have high expectations on these lads and that they don't become regular season morning glories like the Vancouver Canucks.

A good team should get out of the first round. For a club with a nucleus of 3 top picks in the world not to do this would be underwhelming for sure. For a team like this not to have home advantage in the first round would be worse still.

A good club in the NHL could get in the neighbornood of 3-16 home dates. With 6-8 being a reasonable expectation of average. Even in the last Oilers run rumors of 20M in playoff revenue off of afairc 10 home dates. With revenues having increased since then. Keep in mind we never had home advantage in any of those series so we had significantly less dates then we could have in a playoff run.

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11-19-2012, 12:18 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
This is very true. The Oilers do well financially coincides with the strength of the Canadian dollar. Right after the lockout, the loonie began to pick up.

The Oilers almost moved to Houston in 1998 and that's when the loonie was worth 60 cents US.
But this low valuation largely being unsubstantiated and compared with a USD that was vastly overrated, was a house of cards speculative currency, that was primed for a huge bust.
There was a strange overvaluation of the USD that was more speculative than anything I've ever seen. That bubble burst bigtime. I can't see the Canabuck going back to 6ocents and I can't see it legitimately ever being there in the first place.

Maybe with another Canadian govt complicit in the devaluation of its own dollar.

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11-19-2012, 12:21 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Which is one of the reasons I have high expectations on these lads and that they don't become regular season morning glories like the Vancouver Canucks.

A good team should get out of the first round. For a club with a nucleus of 3 top picks in the world not to do this would be underwhelming for sure. For a team like this not to have home advantage in the first round would be worse still.

A good club in the NHL could get in the neighbornood of 3-16 home dates. With 6-8 being a reasonable expectation of average. Even in the last Oilers run rumors of 20M in playoff revenue off of afairc 10 home dates. With revenues having increased since then. Keep in mind we never had home advantage in any of those series so we had significantly less dates then we could have in a playoff run.
So your saying you want the Oilers to always HAVE to make the playoffs in order to make a profit. Yea that's a great business model. And if you look at the Atlanta Thrashers nothing is guaranteed with top picks so people shouldn't be acting like we're going to be the next Detroit Red Wings.

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11-19-2012, 12:25 PM
  #279
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But this low valuation largely being unsubstantiated and compared with a USD that was vastly overrated, was a house of cards speculative currency, that was primed for a huge bust.
There was a strange overvaluation of the USD that was more speculative than anything I've ever seen. That bubble burst bigtime. I can't see the Canabuck going back to 6ocents and I can't see it legitimately ever being there in the first place.

Maybe with another Canadian govt complicit in the devaluation of its own dollar.
All it takes is a government that goes hard after "green" policies and clamps down on the Oil and Gas industry. As well as a rebound in the American economy which is in the gutter at the moment and will turn around with time.

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11-19-2012, 12:34 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
All it takes is a government that goes hard after "green" policies and clamps down on the Oil and Gas industry. As well as a rebound in the American economy which is in the gutter at the moment and will turn around with time.
That;s why I hope Katz and yegcc get their **** together regarding the arena.

If that scenario becomes a reality 5-10 years from now and we're still playing in that decrepit dump that is Rexall Place....oh boy

But that's an argument for another day and another thread.

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11-19-2012, 12:35 PM
  #281
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Reimer and Replacement, you have given me a lot to think about.

I came into this thread fully on the NHLPA side. Now, I don't think that's as much the case anymore.

Reimer, my personal solution for making the Islanders and Coyotes would be compensation for losing a free agent from the league (create draft picks or transfer money).

I would also implement more revenue sharing than is currently happening, but not too much either. As Hoogar pointed out, how much is too much. I don't have the answer, but more than what is currently done is my solution.

Lastly, I would make cap space a commodity. I would sell it to other teams. Some teams aren't close to the cap, so I would make that cap space a commodity that you can trade. You'd have to make sure this is not abused though.

Also, I would stop the cap from growing. I'm not sure why it's going up so much every single year. The NHL is the one determining the cap (I know, based on a calculation). But I would say stop that, and ground it.

To make that happen, I would allow amnesty buy outs (one time to fix things) at no penalty.

Lastly, I would count waiver-eligible players in the AHL as part of the cap to fix the Redden situation, and if one of the long contract guys (Hossa, Luongo, etc.) retires, I'm keeping their cap hit for the duration of the contract.

As a side point, I would try to facilitate trades by somehow playing around with the Cap hits (maybe you can alter how much "cap hit" is sent the other way). I think that this could get messy though, and without looking into it fully, it's just an idea at this point that I have no practical implementation plan for.
I think a great starting solution is to do a 50/50 share of revenues, that is obvious. Then on the owners side it should be like the players. The top 10 teams in revenue pay more than the bottom 10. There was something like this in one of the NHL's proposals so hopefully that point stays.

As for the cap going up, it's tied to revenues. So basically the upper teams are generating a butt load more revenue than the lower teams and this is why it's hurting the lower end teams. The players love this model because they are making more under it and they honestly don't give a flying crap about the poor teams, it doesn't affect them as long as the league stays at 30 teams.

So that's why the owners solution to limit contract lengths and UFA eligibility does take away and limit how much palyers can make in the future but it will still keep the parity in the league which in turn is a positive for all the players.

This really isn't too hard to solve without having to go the contraction route but Fehr and some of the players are hell bent about having to take less next season and by less I mean Ovechkin actually making what his current contract calls for instead of the ...and some.

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11-19-2012, 12:37 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
So your saying you want the Oilers to always HAVE to make the playoffs in order to make a profit. Yea that's a great business model. And if you look at the Atlanta Thrashers nothing is guaranteed with top picks so people shouldn't be acting like we're going to be the next Detroit Red Wings.
No, I guess its a better pro sports business model to miss the playoffs every year..

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All it takes is a government that goes hard after "green" policies and clamps down on the Oil and Gas industry. As well as a rebound in the American economy which is in the gutter at the moment and will turn around with time.
An American economy that for decades was built on a house of cards, is countless trillions of bucks in dept, has engaged in race to the bottom economics for decades not too curiously crashing the american middle class with all those jobs that were outsourced for cheap wages on foreign soil, and that don't currently have a healthy income tax base or economically viable tax payers to pay off all that debt.

Thats the US economy thats recovering soon. gotcha.

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11-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #283
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No, I guess its a better pro sports business model to miss the playoffs every year..
No, but you're obviously a pretty smart guy and can certainly see why needing to make the playoffs to get in the black is a pretty shaky model.

Since about half of the teams in the league do not make the playoffs, I think the conditions should provide you the opportunity to AT LEAST break even with no playoffs. The playoff revenue should be gravy.

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11-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
No, but you're obviously a pretty smart guy and can certainly see why needing to make the playoffs to get in the black is a pretty shaky model.

Since about half of the teams in the league do not make the playoffs, I think the conditions should provide you the opportunity to AT LEAST break even with no playoffs. The playoff revenue should be gravy.
Disagree. 3 number 1 picks in the world plus guys like Schultz and Eberle should be a playoff gimme any year that they are beyond ELC. Anything less, as I stated, would be underwhelming.

If we're going to assume that these players turn out well and that they will cost us inordinately then its somewhat fair to assume the same players will be pushing the club to contender, or at the very least, playoff status.

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11-19-2012, 01:09 PM
  #285
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Here is another RET*** showing his intelligence:

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

Just heard about Versteeg calling Bettman, Daly "cancers" on Toronto radio. Disgusting. Stop it, guys. Just stop it.

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11-19-2012, 01:18 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Here is another RET*** showing his intelligence:

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

Just heard about Versteeg calling Bettman, Daly "cancers" on Toronto radio. Disgusting. Stop it, guys. Just stop it.
Versteeg being a player that would have a hardtime even having a longtime career in a compressed league that his brethren for so long advocated. Oh irony.

But really people that stoop to labelling only ever succeed in hiliting that they don't have a valid argument or position.

So shut up. Empty rhetoric adds nothing to the resolution and is arguably toxic. Again, Irony.

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11-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Disagree. 3 number 1 picks in the world plus guys like Schultz and Eberle should be a playoff gimme any year that they are beyond ELC. Anything less, as I stated, would be underwhelming.

If we're going to assume that these players turn out well and that they will cost us inordinately then its somewhat fair to assume the same players will be pushing the club to contender, or at the very least, playoff status.
Well Eberle and Hall both start there big deals next year. The Oilers being forced to make the playoffs to be profitable is ridiculous and would most likely result in the team being sold.

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11-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Disagree. 3 number 1 picks in the world plus guys like Schultz and Eberle should be a playoff gimme any year that they are beyond ELC. Anything less, as I stated, would be underwhelming.

If we're going to assume that these players turn out well and that they will cost us inordinately then its somewhat fair to assume the same players will be pushing the club to contender, or at the very least, playoff status.
You disagree that you are a smart guy? OK - I won't fight you on that, dumbass.

My point was more about an NHL team in general, not specifically the Oilers. I am expecting/hoping for extended playoff runs sooner rather than later for our team - but this is not just about the Oilers. It's about having a structure and environment in which teams can turn a profit in an 82 game schedule. That's the only guarantee they have (well that and a few pre-season games).

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11-19-2012, 01:39 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Here is another RET*** showing his intelligence:

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika

Just heard about Versteeg calling Bettman, Daly "cancers" on Toronto radio. Disgusting. Stop it, guys. Just stop it.
Its only idiots like Versteeg and Ian White that have done that. I doubt Crosby, Iginla or the like will embarrass themselves like that.

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11-19-2012, 01:40 PM
  #290
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They won't. They are too smart to start talking like that about the hands that feed them.

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11-19-2012, 01:41 PM
  #291
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I'm so glad that no Oilers have made ***** of themselves by commenting on the lockout thus far.

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11-19-2012, 01:42 PM
  #292
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I'm so glad that no Oilers have made ***** of themselves by commenting on the lockout thus far.
Whitney on twitter a few times has. But I'm thinking he's not long as an Oiler anyway.

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11-19-2012, 01:43 PM
  #293
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You disagree that you are a smart guy? OK - I won't fight you on that, dumbass.
haha, well played.

Quote:
My point was more about an NHL team in general, not specifically the Oilers. I am expecting/hoping for extended playoff runs sooner rather than later for our team - but this is not just about the Oilers. It's about having a structure and environment in which teams can turn a profit in an 82 game schedule. That's the only guarantee they have (well that and a few pre-season games).
OK, fair enough, I was having an Oilercentric center of the universe view there. You're absolutely right and I'm not sure why I got to thinking about just one team.

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11-19-2012, 01:53 PM
  #294
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Whitney on twitter a few times has. But I'm thinking he's not long as an Oiler anyway.

Ryan Whitney will be gone the moment July 1st hits.I'm just hoping that we re-sign Ladi Smid long before then.

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11-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #295
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Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA

Some of NHLers skating this morning in Montreal wore "Puck Gary" ballcaps. They are NOT sanctionned by the @NHLPA.

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11-19-2012, 02:58 PM
  #296
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Classy stuff.

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11-19-2012, 02:59 PM
  #297
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Whitney on twitter a few times has. But I'm thinking he's not long as an Oiler anyway.
Either way what Whitney has said is just par for what guys like Lupul and BizNasty have done just ***** and complain. They haven't officially comes out and made objectionalble comments about Bettman to the media.

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11-19-2012, 03:01 PM
  #298
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Classy stuff.
Yeah the actions of some of the players just feed the stereotype that they are a bunch of whiney millionaires.

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11-19-2012, 03:03 PM
  #299
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Either way what Whitney has said is just par for what guys like Lupul and BizNasty have done just ***** and complain. They haven't officially comes out and made objectionalble comments about Bettman to the media.
"BizNasty" represents everything that's wrong with professional sports. Look at the lifestyle he lives in comparison to the actual work he puts in. It's absurd.

Livin' dat lifestyle.

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11-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #300
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Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA

Some of NHLers skating this morning in Montreal wore "Puck Gary" ballcaps. They are NOT sanctionned by the @NHLPA.
Sorry but that's full of epic WIN!

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