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Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:17 PM
  #401
Eytinge
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Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
That's exactly why the NBA is a circus. Superstars plotting to join a big market team like the lakers to form a super team while teams like Milwaukee and Indiana get the shaft.
But the NHL has a hard cap and a less convoluted cba than the NBA. No need to worry about superteams in the NHL.

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11-20-2012, 11:19 PM
  #402
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It's just a media ****-storm. A full week of rumor mongering and anticipation, and it favors a few select teams.

The week of negotiation doesn't really address some of the issues the PA has with July 1 free agency. It's one of the few issues the PA has that I agree with.
I think it would save GMs from themselves. No panicking and offering bad deals just to match what another GM offered 5 minutes ago.

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11-20-2012, 11:20 PM
  #403
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But the NHL has a hard cap and a less convoluted cba than the NBA. No need to worry about superteams in the NHL.
Do you realize that a super team is being built right under your nose!

Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, ....maybe MacKinnon


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Old
11-20-2012, 11:32 PM
  #404
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Do you realize that a super team is being built right under your nose!

Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yakupov, Schultz, ....maybe MacKinnon

Haha, I guess I meant superteams assembled via free agency.

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11-20-2012, 11:46 PM
  #405
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I have the same hope as when this lockout started.

I hope that the players are locked out until the NHL assure their teams of an acceptable business model.

...

So I think there is a slim hope to get this season in.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:29 AM
  #406
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Here's where were at

Meeting tomorrow in nyc at 10 am ET 8 am MT
Lots of players expected to show up
Pa' to share the proposal they put together over the last couple days with the owners
Imo if the players offer tomorrow continues to demand $1.883 billion and not a dollar less, it'll be a short meeting
But if the players move on the core economics then the owners will likely move on contract issues and we may finally have some traction

Hoping for the best but preparing for the worst

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11-21-2012, 10:07 AM
  #407
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The NHLPA sent a letter to the Canadian parliament and, of course, CC'd TSN on it.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409973

I came into this understanding that it was a necessary fight for both the owners and the PA, and really did try not to take it personally, but **** the PA. **** them so hard. Every move they've made since categorically dismissing the owners offer in early October has been fueled by a level of propaganda that insults the intelligence of the fans while asking us to "share in their pain". They're not only completely full of crap, they've convinced themselves that they're on some kind of martyr tear on our behalf.

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11-21-2012, 10:09 AM
  #408
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The NHL is the only sport in the world were the Owners don't want to honor pre existing contracts.

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:14 AM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The NHL is the only sport in the world were the Owners don't want to honor pre existing contracts.
The NBA was asking for rollbacks less than a year ago. Where were you?

The NFL didn't need to ask for that. They can cut players at will. NHLPA has guaranteed deals, which is something NFL players would KILL for, even if it meant taking a hit once or twice.

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11-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The NHL is the only sport in the world were the Owners don't want to honor pre existing contracts.
Oh? Didn't the league offer to pay those contracts, albeit deferred but with interest out of their share of the revenue?

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11-21-2012, 10:19 AM
  #411
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Oh? Didn't the league offer to pay those contracts, albeit deferred but with interest out of their share of the revenue?
Nope they did not

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11-21-2012, 10:22 AM
  #412
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
The NBA was asking for rollbacks less than a year ago. Where were you?

The NFL didn't need to ask for that. They can cut players at will. NHLPA has guaranteed deals, which is something NFL players would KILL for, even if it meant taking a hit once or twice.
The NBA honored the signed contracts. That is the reason the lockout ended.

The NFL offers massive signing bonuses instead of guaranteed contracts. It is an either/or situation. If you are a star player would you rather wait for 7 years to get money or would you rather get a huge bonus plus your contract. I know which one I want

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11-21-2012, 10:31 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
Nope they did not
Yup, they did. Likely not the full extent of the contracts value, but the PA has been free to counter offer that and until 2 minutes from now, have not done so.

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Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The NBA honored the signed contracts. That is the reason the lockout ended.

The NFL offers massive signing bonuses instead of guaranteed contracts. It is an either/or situation. If you are a star player would you rather wait for 7 years to get money or would you rather get a huge bonus plus your contract. I know which one I want
1) The NBA didn't 'honor all signed agreements'. Escrow increased and there was amnesty opt-outs. And it's a soft cap. Regardless, you said the NHL is the only league that doesn't want to "honor all pre-existing contracts", which is factually inaccurate.

2) Signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts are not mutually exclusives. In the NHL, signing bonuses are advances on salary (in essence) and count against the cap, but exist in spite of guaranteed deals. The NFLPA would take guaranteed contracts and allow the market to create signing bonuses, as a means of attraction, every single time. Careers are too short for them not to take guaranteed money.

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11-21-2012, 10:38 AM
  #414
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@TSNBobMcKenzie
We're hearing today's NHLPA proposal to NHL will include increasing the NHL's $211M Make Whole provision by another $180M.
That's a fair counterproposal. NHL won't accept it, but haggling to a middling figure is easier than disagreeing with how to work the numbers entirely.

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@TSNBobMcKenzie
We're also hearing the NHLPA proposal will work off a percentage of HRR -- as requested by NHL -- and not a guaranteed dollar amount.
Good. Now stay on that train of thought, because you won't play again demanding a guaranteed share (let alone a guaranteed 5% increase year-over-year)

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Old
11-21-2012, 10:41 AM
  #415
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Nope they did not
Bob Mackenzie says otherwise. Check out his blog from Nov 11.

He does say "as close as possible" to making the contracts whole, maybe that's what your hung up on?

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11-21-2012, 10:58 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by OilDrop37 View Post
Bob Mackenzie says otherwise. Check out his blog from Nov 11.

He does say "as close as possible" to making the contracts whole, maybe that's what your hung up on?
I think it was also hung up on the players "needing" to represent their "share" as a whole concrete number as opposed to a percentage, that's changed today apparently.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:15 AM
  #417
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PA proposal is about 390M in make whole from the league. Sidney Crosby is saying that's "not even close" to what they want from make whole, but tabled it as a "move in the NHL's direction".

How the hell is that "just wanting our contracts honored". That's asking for a raise.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:21 AM
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The NHL is the only sport in the world were the Owners don't want to honor pre existing contracts.
NFL says a big HELLO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Hallenback View Post
The NFL offers massive signing bonuses instead of guaranteed contracts. It is an either/or situation. If you are a star player would you rather wait for 7 years to get money or would you rather get a huge bonus plus your contract. I know which one I want
Either way you cut it, owners can get out of contracts anytime they want in the NFL. The NFL doesn't honor contracts. Did you see the signing bonus Weber just got? What about Erhoff the year before? Signing bonuses are going to become even larger in the NHL unless the NHL corrects this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OilDrop37 View Post
Bob Mackenzie says otherwise. Check out his blog from Nov 11.

He does say "as close as possible" to making the contracts whole, maybe that's what your hung up on?
This is a lot closer than the NFL has offered its players. Sure the guys coming off huge years get signing bonuses, but what about the guys that don't, or get injuried? The stars in the NFL make out well. A lot of the rest don't.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:25 AM
  #419
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Meh. NHLPA keeps wrapping the same gift in different paper. Screw them.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:26 AM
  #420
ponokanocker
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
PA proposal is about 390M in make whole from the league. Sidney Crosby is saying that's "not even close" to what they want from make whole, but tabled it as a "move in the NHL's direction".

How the hell is that "just wanting our contracts honored". That's asking for a raise.
How is it asking for a raise? They are asking for their contracts to be honored rather than rolled back. In effect, they are saying even with the $390M make whole, their contacts still may not be fully honored if revenues don't continue to grow.

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11-21-2012, 11:28 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by SK13 View Post


That's a fair counterproposal. NHL won't accept it, but haggling to a middling figure is easier than disagreeing with how to work the numbers entirely.



Good. Now stay on that train of thought, because you won't play again demanding a guaranteed share (let alone a guaranteed 5% increase year-over-year)
I'm a bit confused when it comes to the players moving off of a guaranteed share. Is this how the old system was? Or did they just start demanding this during these negotiations?

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:36 AM
  #422
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
How is it asking for a raise? They are asking for their contracts to be honored rather than rolled back. In effect, they are saying even with the $390M make whole, their contacts still may not be fully honored if revenues don't continue to grow.
With the way their agreement worked last year was that not always a concern if revenues took a dip?

I also hope that the players are talking about making the pro-rated amount of their contracts for say a 50-game season instead of talking about making the full amount over a 50-game season.

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11-21-2012, 11:39 AM
  #423
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Holly **** both sides are getting back together today, they aren't just gonna meet for 90 minutes in one day. Not bad. PA finally scored some points in my book.

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11-21-2012, 11:46 AM
  #424
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Holly **** both sides are getting back together today, they aren't just gonna meet for 90 minutes in one day. Not bad. PA finally scored some points in my book.
They're meeting twice because the NHL needs a couple hours to review the proposal and prepare a response.

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11-21-2012, 11:47 AM
  #425
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They're meeting twice because the NHL needs a couple hours to review the proposal and prepare a response.
I assumed as much, but my comment was more sarcasm than not.

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