HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lockout thread #2: mediation done - no progress

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-21-2012, 10:59 AM
  #426
Oilbleeder
Moderator
Lead us to glory.
 
Oilbleeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,823
vCash: 81
The business board has an article by thestar on somethings the NHL has agreed upon. Pretty decent read. My phone wont let me copy the link for some reason.


Last edited by Oilbleeder: 11-21-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Oilbleeder is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 11:09 AM
  #427
ponokanocker
Registered User
 
ponokanocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
So it sounds like the PA has actually agreed to talk about the same things as the NHL, and didn't propose going away from a cap or salaries based on a % of revenue. I guess that is progress. Just how much though, I'm not sure. Bettman's response should give a good indication. I still have a hard time believing they will play this year though.

ponokanocker is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 11:16 AM
  #428
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Fehr: there's $180 million separating the sides

That's not tht much
The pa moved away from te dollar demand and will work off a percent
They essential moved closer to each other
League response expected at 11 MT when sides meet again so far so good

402 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 11:18 AM
  #429
SK13
Mo'Linguish
 
SK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,009
vCash: 500
At this point, it's not even the money anymore. Now that both sides are haggling from the same perspective, they'll find some middle ground (hopefully sooner rather than later). Probably somewhere between the ~210M that the NHL offered and the ~390M that the players asked for.

Did the NHLPA's proposal have contract limitations (length, ELC, UFA eligibility)? That's the question. If the PA proposal involved no change, and the NHL is unwilling to come off their severe stance, that could be a bigger long term fight.

SK13 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 11:26 AM
  #430
402
#ualberta
 
402's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Egypt
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
At this point, it's not even the money anymore. Now that both sides are haggling from the same perspective, they'll find some middle ground (hopefully sooner rather than later). Probably somewhere between the ~210M that the NHL offered and the ~390M that the players asked for.

Did the NHLPA's proposal have contract limitations (length, ELC, UFA eligibility)? That's the question. If the PA proposal involved no change, and the NHL is unwilling to come off their severe stance, that could be a bigger long term fight.
@reporterchris: I'm told the NHLPA's proposal included player contract rights.

Yes according to Chris Johnston the proposal also covers contract issues at this point we don't know what exactly the pa asked for

402 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 11:47 AM
  #431
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,303
vCash: 98
Haven't read much, but what were the 13 or 17 things the NHL agreed to that were proposed by the PA? Only thing I heard was the free agency period being moved up, which led me to believe the draft would be after the free agency period?

joestevens29 is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:07 PM
  #432
Blue And Orange
#KevinLoweMustGo
 
Blue And Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,248
vCash: 500
@aaronward_nhl
NHLPA proposal took NHL structure, 50/50 in year 1; Only difference,took $211M (make whole) to $393M over 4 yrs


@Real_ESPNLebrun
So the difference in both Make Whole offers is the $182 M that Fehr cited

Don't know what to make of it, but it seems the PA has moved considerably towards the NHL. I hope the NHL can at least compromise instead of being jerks and keep asking.

Get this deal signed and sealed already. It's US Thanksgiving! Be in a giving mood for heaven's sake!

Blue And Orange is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:12 PM
  #433
Blue And Orange
#KevinLoweMustGo
 
Blue And Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,248
vCash: 500
@TSNBobMcKenzie

But the NHLPA offer, arguably for the first time, puts the two sides in what I would call the same universe. And that's a major step forward

This may not mean much, but coming from Bob McKenzie, this should at least put some positive feeling inside.

Blue And Orange is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:25 PM
  #434
Matador
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,352
vCash: 500
Why wasn't this offer on the table when there existed the possibility of an 82 game season? 50/50 was inevitable. It shouldn't have taken the NHLPA months to figure that out. Congrats. In the end you lost a bunch of salary only to come back to the proposal that was made over a month ago.

A 5 year CBA is laughable.

Matador is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:28 PM
  #435
OilerNut*
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Why wasn't this offer on the table when there existed the possibility of an 82 game season? 50/50 was inevitable. It shouldn't have taken the NHLPA months to figure that out. Congrats. In the end you lost a bunch of salary only to come back to the proposal that was made over a month ago.

A 5 year CBA is laughable.
This offer should of been made in the summer...

OilerNut* is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:31 PM
  #436
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Call me pessimistic if you want, but I don't buy the NHLPA's numbers until somebody actually confirms them. We're talking about a group of people who said they were giving up a billion dollars just last week, when in reality they were asking for guaranteed raises, lol. It's math that only republicans could actually follow.

That being said, if their numbers do happen to be mostly true, it at least means the two sides are at least speaking the same language. Doesn't mean much, but it would at least be an improvement of sorts.


Last edited by jadeddog: 11-21-2012 at 12:41 PM.
jadeddog is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:33 PM
  #437
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,303
vCash: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Why wasn't this offer on the table when there existed the possibility of an 82 game season? 50/50 was inevitable. It shouldn't have taken the NHLPA months to figure that out. Congrats. In the end you lost a bunch of salary only to come back to the proposal that was made over a month ago.

A 5 year CBA is laughable.
Probably because neither side wants to give in too soon.

joestevens29 is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:43 PM
  #438
Meanashell11
Registered User
 
Meanashell11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: connecticut
Posts: 2,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
@aaronward_nhl
NHLPA proposal took NHL structure, 50/50 in year 1; Only difference,took $211M (make whole) to $393M over 4 yrs


@Real_ESPNLebrun
So the difference in both Make Whole offers is the $182 M that Fehr cited

Don't know what to make of it, but it seems the PA has moved considerably towards the NHL. I hope the NHL can at least compromise instead of being jerks and keep asking.

Get this deal signed and sealed already. It's US Thanksgiving! Be in a giving mood for heaven's sake!
It's comments like this I just don't understand. I think it is generally agreed that it's been the PA that has not been compromising. What's next, calling GB a cancer?

Meanashell11 is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:48 PM
  #439
OilDrop37
Registered User
 
OilDrop37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up North
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,013
vCash: 50
The NHLPA offer is on TSN

OilDrop37 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:51 PM
  #440
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
Call me pessimistic if you want, but I don't buy the NHLPA's numbers until somebody actually confirms them. We're talking about a group of people who said they were giving up a billion dollars just last week, when in reality they were asking for guaranteed raises, lol. It's math that only republicans could actually follow.

That being said, if their numbers do happen to be mostly true, it at least means the two sides are at least speaking the same language. Doesn't mean much, but it would at least be an improvement of sorts.
Here a link to the offer from Bobby MAc twitter:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

About time they have something to work with but as was said earlier in this thread what the hell was the point of wasting this time and even forfeiting an 82-game season when that was still possible a month or so into the lockout.

Reimer is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:53 PM
  #441
Reimer
Tambo Troll Face
 
Reimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue And Orange View Post
Don't know what to make of it, but it seems the PA has moved considerably towards the NHL. I hope the NHL can at least compromise instead of being jerks and keep asking.

Get this deal signed and sealed already. It's US Thanksgiving! Be in a giving mood for heaven's sake!
LOL are you serious. So the PA staying at the same stance and not moving from day one means the NHL hasn't done anything? They moved from their original 43% to 50% quite a while ago.

Reimer is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:56 PM
  #442
jsho
Registered User
 
jsho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,250
vCash: 500
Does just a 5 year term slightly concern anyone? I mean its almost like a 4.5 year term and we could potentially be looking at another lockout then. Just the term of 5 years has always seemed to short to me.

The NFL almost had a lockout last year and did a 10 year term. Last NHL term was 7 years and ended up with a lockout. Wouldn't either side want to try and lock in a longer deal so you don't have to deal with this again in just 5 years?

jsho is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:57 PM
  #443
ponokanocker
Registered User
 
ponokanocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,980
vCash: 500
Only offering 5 years and expiring in September again. What a slap in the face to fans everywhere.

Only partially fixing the loophole for long term deals and players sent to the minors going against the cap.

I guess they are at least talking about the same things now.

ponokanocker is online now  
Old
11-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #444
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
So the full agreement was released and it does actually appear to be a pretty big step towards the NHL. I must say that I am surprised. The NHLPA didn't cave on the systematic contract issues, but I don't think anybody was expecting that. I have a sneaking feeling that the NHL isn't willing to kill the season over the contract issues though. The 50/50 is the big win they were after, although the NHLPA did somewhat curtail back diving contracts over 9 years, as well as count players in the minors making over 1 million against the cap (but not against the players share of HRR).

The NHL needs to seriously look at this IMO, as it gives them the biggest thing they were after.

jadeddog is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:01 PM
  #445
SK13
Mo'Linguish
 
SK13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,009
vCash: 500
There are all kinds of sneaky caveats that need to be worked out.

The bit about the players not being able to lose share if revenue drops? That's one of those stupid little things that removes the guarantee of 50/50. No, if you can share in the profits, you can share in the risk. If you think there's going to be financial backlash, you had a little something to do with this lockout too. Just ask any fan.

SK13 is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:11 PM
  #446
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
There are all kinds of sneaky caveats that need to be worked out.

The bit about the players not being able to lose share if revenue drops? That's one of those stupid little things that removes the guarantee of 50/50. No, if you can share in the profits, you can share in the risk. If you think there's going to be financial backlash, you had a little something to do with this lockout too. Just ask any fan.
Exactly, exactly, exactly.... It would be insulting to me as a fan (or if I where an owner) for the players to ask for an unequal partnership (and being tied to revenue, not profit, is exactly that) and then further it by taking no financial risk.... as you say, ESPECIALLY since their greed has done an (at-the-moment) immeasurable amount of damage to this game/business.

bucks_oil is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:17 PM
  #447
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 11,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
There are all kinds of sneaky caveats that need to be worked out.

The bit about the players not being able to lose share if revenue drops? That's one of those stupid little things that removes the guarantee of 50/50. No, if you can share in the profits, you can share in the risk. If you think there's going to be financial backlash, you had a little something to do with this lockout too. Just ask any fan.
Yeah that is a sneaky one for sure. But one would assume they could take that off the table by the NHL dropping their UFA change (or something similar anyhow). Of course there is no way the NHL accepts anything less than true HRR linkage. Smart by the players though, as revenue isn't really that likely to go down, but yet its a "bargaining chip" that they can now use. The NHL will want to get rid of it, but it's likely a non-issue to be honest, inflation alone likely takes care of that.

jadeddog is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:25 PM
  #448
RipsADrive
Maybe next year?
 
RipsADrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,654
vCash: 500
Big sticking point right now is that the PA wants a guarantee that, "beginning with the second year of the Agreement, players' share, expressed in dollars may not fall below its value for the prior season."

In this way, the NHL takes the full hit from any fan backlash and leaves them vulnerable if the currency drops. I'm not sure the NHL will be alright with that.

Edit: Oops, forgot to refresh and I see SK13 just covered this. Going to be really interesting to see how the NHL responds.

RipsADrive is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:26 PM
  #449
Calgary Oilers
Registered User
 
Calgary Oilers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary
Posts: 1,306
vCash: 50
The 5 yr agreement is just stupid. Make it a 10 yr agreement and be done with these stupid lockouts for the next decade!!

Calgary Oilers is offline  
Old
11-21-2012, 01:31 PM
  #450
RipsADrive
Maybe next year?
 
RipsADrive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,654
vCash: 500
As an aside I totally agree with extending this deal to 10 years or so.

Both sides can frame it as an offering of laurel leaves and a show of good will to thank the fans for their patience. Much better than writing "Thank you fans" on the ice.

RipsADrive is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.