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We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #326
HavlatMach9
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
the players are already losing more money than they can ever recover following a sustained lockout.
The 3rd issue is who's gonna pay for this lockout. The NHLPA being so fair will ask the NHL to pay the players the lost money, so then I guess the players aren't losing money are they?

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #327
DespoticNewt
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Let me ask you something...you ever hire someone to do something for you then trust that it'll get done?

Every hire a lawyer? Ever hire an accountant? A lawn guy?

Donald Fehr is Sidney Crosby's accountant in this example. While obviously Fehr can screw up and cost Crosby some dough, you'll have to forgive Sidney if he doesn't go get a law degree so he can hold Fehr's hand through this.

We're talking about hockey players here. If I was Crosby I wouldn't care to learn this stuff either.
It doesn't take a law degree to realise that if you're not working, you're not getting paid. Sidney's comment strikes me as being a month and a half to 2 months too late.


Last edited by DespoticNewt: 11-13-2012 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Phone loves to mistype what I speak.
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Old
11-13-2012, 02:38 PM
  #328
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I don't see a reason why they can't sign to a clause saying neither side can stop playing.
Then Fehr wouldn't have negotiated. The only reason the players started negotiating was because they got locked out.

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11-13-2012, 02:40 PM
  #329
bp13
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
You don't need a law degree to understand the basic arithmetic of the situation. High-school level math is more than enough to be able to understand that the players are already losing more money than they can ever recover following a sustained lockout.
And High School debate class shows you how to set up a strawman for the purpose of knocking it down. Which is what you just did. But it doesn't mean anything.

You're taking the position that Donald Fehr and the PA KNOW they are losing money they can't recoup, and it only takes a HS kid to figure that out. By stating that you're calling Donald Fehr and his colleagues incompetent, and the rest of the PA stupid. Now you can assume both of those are true and hell you may be right, but I don't make a habit of assuming other professionals are incompetent.

Put simply, I don't believe Donald Fehr and the players feel they're losing money by taking their stance. Or at least, they might be losing money, but they'd lose more by giving in to the current plan. And they're going to take this to the tipping point where holding out any longer brings a negative return, and at that point they'll sign a deal.

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11-13-2012, 02:41 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by DespoticNewt View Post
It doesn't take a law degree to realise that if you're not working, you're not getting paid. Sydney's comment strikes me as being a month and a half to 2 months too late.
So you're of the opinion then that no work stoppage for a better deal is worth it for the worker? You should always take the last offer on the table at the moment before you start losing work time?

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11-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #331
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Do the players have lost a paycheck so far ?

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11-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #332
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I'm thinking that the December deadline is going to be wiped out soon and if they're done and ready for Early January then we're done for the season.

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11-13-2012, 02:42 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
He's not calling out his leader. Just yesterday he was throwing around the PA notes that they all use. Please don't put your faith in Sidney Crosby that he'll be some kind of voice of reason in any of this. He won't.
Crosby is the face of whatever. He's the face of the league, of the Penguins, of the PA. He doesn't come off as a boat rocker. He just does what the league needs him to do, what the Penguins need him to do, what the PA needs him to do.

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11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by HarryHabs View Post
I don't get how people still say 'they agreed on 50-50''. No they didn't. The players are offering a delink system that MIGHT get to 50% IF the revenus grow at a 7% rate.

The NHL is offering a fix 50-50 split linked to revenues. Both sides are not even close.
what i dont get is, how the NHLPA thinks theyre better than every other league and deserves a larger portion. Dont tell me NFL players, who have a career that averages 3 years...THREE...are sacrificing themselves less than an NHLer.


Last edited by Crease: 11-13-2012 at 02:44 PM. Reason: OT
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Old
11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #335
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Brian Lawton @brianlawton9

"I have heard enough Mark Recci bashing. He is entitled to his opinion as a senior former player that lived through numerous work stoppages!

Older players seem to realize that this is a cold hard business! Some appear to believe the less time missed the better! Seems reasonable.

I believe there is a tipping point in all negotiations and we appear to be past that point!!! #weallcandecideourfate @nhlpa @nhl "

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #336
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Winnipeg has an event for the fans today --- player driven:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...-winnipeg.html

Team Ladd vs. Team Richards street hockey game at the Forks 4pm.

Bring your sticks!
Prust and Armstrong did this too a few weeks ago. Prust just said on twitter "anyone wanna play street hockey in front of the Bell Centre? Meet me there at 4 pm!" ... Armstrong replied "Me too!" and they actually both were there.

My friend said she stripped the puck from Armstrong...Sigh, not ideal...Well, he only has a 1 year deal anyways and that'll be lost to the lockout.

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11-13-2012, 02:45 PM
  #337
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The NHL could offer the PA a de-linked CBA, then fold the Phoenix franchse the next day.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:46 PM
  #338
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Chadgriz ‏@chadgriz
@brianlawton9 challenge is if the players never take a stand then they will always be giving more.. What's next 40%? Then 30%??


Brian Lawton ‏@brianlawton9
@chadgriz i don't think so. The trick is accurate reporting. Players won't ever again play for minor fraction of revenue. #daysgone @Nhlpa

Whoops, there goes that fear-mongering argument.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #339
CerebralGenesis
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The NHL could offer the PA a de-linked CBA, then fold the Phoenix franchse the next day.
Why would they do that and what does Phoenix have to do with the other 29 team's un linked revenues?

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11-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #340
mossey3535
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I just don't see it. The only thing that comes close to 'both sides' is his "Everyone's going to lose" comment, but he bookended that comment with a series of NHLPA-Approved (TM) comments targeting the owners.
I know, but my opinion is coloured by that Russo radio interview I posted a couple of pages back.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:47 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Put simply, I don't believe Donald Fehr and the players feel they're losing money by taking their stance. Or at least, they might be losing money, but they'd lose more by giving in to the current plan. And they're going to take this to the tipping point where holding out any longer brings a negative return, and at that point they'll sign a deal.
The players are losing money each and every day, and they know it, and Fehr knows it. It's lost money they will never get back.

I can't remember the player that said it, but they said they knew going into this they were going to have to give up salary. What they are fighting for is to minimize the rollback. They are not fighting for the future player, they are fighting to minimize their losses. When the players have decided they have lost enough, they will tell Fehr to settle.

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11-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #342
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Who is Brian Lawton and why is he trying to rescue the NHL season?

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #343
Ernie
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Please don't put your faith in Sidney Crosby that he'll be some kind of voice of reason in any of this. He won't.
Voice of reason? I can count on one hand the number of people even tangentially attached to this who have presented a "voice of reason."

Crosby IS the voice of the players though, more so than any other. He's likely the most influential person on that side of things. When he offers his take on things, he's not talking to the fans. He's talking to 700 players and 30 owners.

And don't try to tell me for a second that he'd not give up money to get back on the ice. But he's got principles.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:48 PM
  #344
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Why would they do that and what does Phoenix have to do with the other 29 team's un linked revenues?
They'd lose support in Phoenix and probably in other areas as well but it would cost at least 22 jobs in the PA which they could attribute to them holding out causing Phoenix to miss out on revenue.

They wouldn't do that though.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:49 PM
  #345
PensFanSince1989
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Who is Brian Lawton and why is he trying to rescue the NHL season?
Ex player

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #346
isles31
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Ex player
i believe an agent too, no?

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11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
Let me ask you something...you ever hire someone to do something for you then trust that it'll get done?

Every hire a lawyer? Ever hire an accountant? A lawn guy?

Donald Fehr is Sidney Crosby's accountant in this example. While obviously Fehr can screw up and cost Crosby some dough, you'll have to forgive Sidney if he doesn't go get a law degree so he can hold Fehr's hand through this.

We're talking about hockey players here. If I was Crosby I wouldn't care to learn this stuff either.
You know, just when he was starting to get real attention, I remember an interview Jay-Z gave, where some joke host at MtV asked him about money. Instead of telling the guy how nice it was or how much awesome stuff he had, he went into this thing where he said he had every intention of keeping what he had, so he hired a lawfirm to review every document his lawyer gave him and an accountant to review everything his business manager proposed and an auditing firm to double check his accountant's work.

I don't think it's any accident this guy's worth so much more money than guys who've done equal or greater record sales.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #348
CerebralGenesis
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They'd lose support in Phoenix and probably in other areas as well but it would cost at least 22 jobs in the PA which they could attribute to them holding out causing Phoenix to miss out on revenue.

They wouldn't do that though.
That is extremely petty

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:50 PM
  #349
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The NHL could offer the PA a de-linked CBA, then fold the Phoenix franchse the next day.
And that accomplishes nothing other then costing a bunch of players there jobs

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:52 PM
  #350
waffledave
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Quote:
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Who is Brian Lawton and why is he trying to rescue the NHL season?
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Ex player
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
i believe an agent too, no?
He was GM of the Lightning just a few years ago.

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