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We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:12 PM
  #426
sheed36
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
As for likelihood of season, I give it a 5 out of 10to start by January. If nothing happens come Jan, IMO the season's done.
I was just listening to Bob McKenzie on TSN and he feels the season will be lost and I agree with him.

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11-13-2012, 05:14 PM
  #427
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I am fine with the agents going out of business. What the players really need are financial advisors that won't steal their money or put them into bad investments.

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11-13-2012, 05:14 PM
  #428
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I was just listening to Bob McKenzie on TSN and he feels the season will be lost and I agree with him.
He's been pessimistic the entire lockout. Says could go 2 years.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:15 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
He's been pessimistic the entire lockout. Says could go 2 years.
Actually he has been quite distant in his views. I think Mac has been one of the few who has held his own personal opinions in check. If he is saying the season could be lost I think we should all be worried.

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11-13-2012, 05:16 PM
  #430
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"You can't idiot proof anything," an agent said. "I'm sick of the teams coming back to the players and saying, 'Please save us from ourselves. The 30 of us general managers can't control our spending, so you have to help us because we can't help ourselves.'"
The problem is its not 30 GM's that cause the issues, its a small number of GM's, and that ends up driving the whole market.

Lets face it, Nashville has never (to my knowledge anyways) offered a foolish contract, but like it or not they have one.

If you wanted to compete for Suter and Parise, there were at least a few GM's that drove those insane contracts.

So its not every GM, every team, but all it takes is a couple and the market has literally little choice but to follow or be left out. If the rules stop these few from skewing the contracting, then the craziness of these back loaded contracts ends, not to mention some of the signings of young yet to be fully proven become more reasonable.

And to me, not only does it help the owners, but it helps the players (I believe even more). Given the league has been over the cap for years, all these signings are effectively a tax on the players. Quite simply the league was going to be over the cap number this year, and escrow would have kicked in, every dollar over the cap in spending comes from the players share, not the owners share. Who do you think effectively was paying for Suter, Parise, Weber? The players. The same bunch who balked at "players paying player" for the original make whole (and I agree with their side on that vehemently) should be smart enough to realize thats exactly what these back loaded contracts do as well.

Its quite simple in a linked system. The more player X signs for, the less every other player makes. So stopping foolish contracts is IMHO better for the players (who do not have the foolish contract, which is about 98% of the union membership) individually than for the owners.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:21 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
I was just listening to Bob McKenzie on TSN and he feels the season will be lost and I agree with him.
That'll get the attention of the players.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:23 PM
  #432
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I think that if nothings agreed by mid-December, around the 19th then we can kiss goodbye to a season.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:24 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
He's been pessimistic the entire lockout. Says could go 2 years.
Him and LeBrun have both been pretty pessimistic. Dreger is actually the guy I follow TBH. I also excepted the lockout to last as long as the NBA lockout did.

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11-13-2012, 05:27 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by habfan1968 View Post
The NHLPA wants the contracting rights to stay exactly the same as the previous CBA and the point is those rights need to be changed. The two sides should be able to find a compromise on those issues but the PA next offer should have some movement towards the league in this regard. Afaik, the PA has not actually moved on anything yet.
Not all of those rights need to be changed. Sure those changes are ideal for the owners but in a negotiation, you hardly ever get the ideal situation. It would be rather silly for the owners to cut their losses of an entire season for ALL of the contracting rights. But then again, with the PA still insisting on delinked revenues, I don't believe contracting rights is the only issue left to figure out.

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11-13-2012, 05:31 PM
  #435
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There's no way the league could lose two consecutive seasons and hope to ever bounce back. That'd be a deathblow

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:32 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
That'll get the attention of the players.
Basic common sense can't even get the attention of the players. What makes you think anything BMac says means a damn thing to them?

They don't care about the fans. They don't care about the arena workers, etc. they're screwing over who don't have millions in the bank. They're only looking out for number one. Bob Mackenzie doesn't even enter into for them.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:39 PM
  #437
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I just watched ESPN's 30 for 30 'Broke'. It doesn't give me much hope that the players will be reasonable financially.

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11-13-2012, 05:39 PM
  #438
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No offense, but people who say they will go running back supporting the NHL when this lockout is over are dumber than the players who want more money than they deserve.

I mean once this lockout reached to this point i already lost my interest in the NHL, but listening to some of this players (like Crosby) makes it even much easier for me to never support this dumb league again.

I just can't believe some or most people are actually willing to continue spending money on this circus when or if this lockout ends.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #439
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My personal camp is either something gets done in November or nothing at all. Those who are comparing it to the nba lockout. Just remember the nba lockout was longer in length wise because it started July 1st... Bettman and co should have done the same instead of more terrible contracts a la parise and suter

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by ottawah View Post
The problem is its not 30 GM's that cause the issues, its a small number of GM's, and that ends up driving the whole market.

Lets face it, Nashville has never (to my knowledge anyways) offered a foolish contract, but like it or not they have one.

If you wanted to compete for Suter and Parise, there were at least a few GM's that drove those insane contracts.

So its not every GM, every team, but all it takes is a couple and the market has literally little choice but to follow or be left out. If the rules stop these few from skewing the contracting, then the craziness of these back loaded contracts ends, not to mention some of the signings of young yet to be fully proven become more reasonable.

And to me, not only does it help the owners, but it helps the players (I believe even more). Given the league has been over the cap for years, all these signings are effectively a tax on the players. Quite simply the league was going to be over the cap number this year, and escrow would have kicked in, every dollar over the cap in spending comes from the players share, not the owners share. Who do you think effectively was paying for Suter, Parise, Weber? The players. The same bunch who balked at "players paying player" for the original make whole (and I agree with their side on that vehemently) should be smart enough to realize thats exactly what these back loaded contracts do as well.

Its quite simple in a linked system. The more player X signs for, the less every other player makes. So stopping foolish contracts is IMHO better for the players (who do not have the foolish contract, which is about 98% of the union membership) individually than for the owners.
It's quite simple. The folks here at hf boards that are against this are generally the fans of teams that have no trouble spending beyond the cap every season. Those fans want their teams to have that luxury so they can dominate the competition on the ice.

These folks do not want to have their GM be forced to compete on a level playing field with the other GMs.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
No offense, but people who say they will go running back supporting the NHL when this lockout is over are dumber than the players who want more money than they deserve.

I mean once this lockout reached to this point i already lost my interest in the NHL, but listening to some of this players (like Crosby) makes it even much easier for me to never support this dumb league again.

I just can't believe some or most people are actually willing to continue spending money on this circus when or if this lockout ends.
Add me to those who will support the league WHEN this is all over. I have no shame in admitting it. I love the NHL and the game of hockey which is why this whole process pisses me off so much. Just bring back the game I love.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
No offense, but people who say they will go running back supporting the NHL when this lockout is over are dumber than the players who want more money than they deserve.

I mean once this lockout reached to this point i already lost my interest in the NHL, but listening to some of this player demands (like Crosby) makes it even much easier for me to never support this dumb league again.

I just can't believe some or most people are actually willing to continue spending money on this circus when or if this lockout ends.
Why not? Why should I deny myself my favorite form of entertainment? Because it was not available for a while I should deprive myself of it when it becomes available? Makes no sense.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:42 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
No offense, but people who say they will go running back supporting the NHL when this lockout is over are dumber than the players who want more money than they deserve.

I mean once this lockout reached to this point i already lost my interest in the NHL, but listening to some of this players (like Crosby) makes it even much easier for me to never support this dumb league again.

I just can't believe some or most people are actually willing to continue spending money on this circus when or if this lockout ends.
The only problem with this line of thinking is I really really really miss watching nhl quality hockey.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:44 PM
  #444
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I don't think owners are really interested in being a part of 2 lock outs, some maybe even 3? I'd like to know what owners are currently the same group that went through the last lock out.

Put yourself in the shoes of the business owner and think if you want your name and group highlighted under laughing stock anti NHL journalism for years to come?

I still think the game of Chicken is underway and we'll need to wait it out until the very last days of November before a new CBA is agreed to.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:44 PM
  #445
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
I think that if nothings agreed by mid-December, around the 19th then we can kiss goodbye to a season.
I dunno, I think the owners should call it quits for this season on Nov 30. Fehr will call that an artificial deadline of course, but who cares.

Maybe the NHL declares an impasse and starts recruiting replacement players? I am sure that the kids playing in the CHL and NCAA would like a place to play professionally in North America someday. In 4 or 5 years we would all be saying Sidney Who? That's assuming of course that he is dumb enough to not play or play in Europe for significantly fewer dollars.

At this point I say if Fehr wants war, give him war.


Last edited by KINGS17: 11-13-2012 at 05:50 PM.
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Old
11-13-2012, 05:46 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by StittsvilleJames View Post
The only problem with this line of thinking is I really really really miss watching nhl quality hockey.
Seriously, start getting yourself involved in the CHL. The current Super Series alone has been great coverage and near NHL quality. I'm starting to quickly get over my NHL addiction.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:47 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
I don't think owners are really interested in being a part of 2 lock outs, some maybe even 3? I'd like to know what owners are currently the same group that went through the last lock out.

Put yourself in the shoes of the business owner and think if you want your name and group highlighted under laughing stock anti NHL journalism for years to come?
What you did wrong here, was apply logic. There is no logic anywhere in this whole thing...

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:48 PM
  #448
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Agreed with CHL. If you have Rogers or live near Hamilton with shaw or cogeco invest in the super sports pack. You get OHL almost everynight for only 30 dollars a month on top of NBA,NHL(when it's playing),MLB,NFL,college...

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:52 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
No offense, but people who say they will go running back supporting the NHL when this lockout is over are dumber than the players who want more money than they deserve.

I mean once this lockout reached to this point i already lost my interest in the NHL, but listening to some of this players (like Crosby) makes it even much easier for me to never support this dumb league again.

I just can't believe some or most people are actually willing to continue spending money on this circus when or if this lockout ends.
Then why are you even on this website posting? Go find other sports or hobbies to spend time on if you've lost all interest in hockey.

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Old
11-13-2012, 05:52 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Crescent Street View Post
Seriously, start getting yourself involved in the CHL. The current Super Series alone has been great coverage and near NHL quality. I'm starting to quickly get over my NHL addiction.
Hard to find enough quality CHL games on without a specialty package, unfortunately.

Its too bad, which CBC or TSN had the foresight to sign a deal contingent on a lockout to show CHL games. Most hockey fans sitting at bars would hardly know the difference.

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