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We'll Meet Again, Don't Know Where, Don't Know When (CBA/Lockout) XXVII

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #151
NJDevs26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Here is the full Recchi article,just saw the tweets before:

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/1...HvO/story.html

The longer they’re out, the revenues are going to go down and down,’’ said Recchi, explaining why he believes the NHL’s offer is only going to get worse. “Corporate sponsors aren’t going to be lining up . . . so there goes that money. The schedule isn’t going to be 82 games, I don’t think, at this point. That’s more money lost. So, how are you going to get a better deal? Personally, I think the best time is now.’’
.................................................. ..........................................


Recchi was stunned three years ago when the players abruptly fired Paul Kelly as the union’s executive director, and was among the very few in the Bruins’ dressing room to let his feelings known, especially to teammate Andrew Ference, who helped lead the mutiny against Kelly. He felt Kelly was the right man for the job, someone who could protect the players’ best interests while also working to build on a true partnership with the league.

“A dark time,’’ said Recchi, reflecting on Kelly’s ouster. “And it has been frustrating to see how it’s played out, obviously. If Paul had stayed on the job, I don’t think you would have seen this happen. The two sides would have started talking long before, maybe a year sooner [in 2011], and not with two or three months to go before [the CBA] expired
Too bad the players didn't realize at the time that Kelly did a great job of pulling a fast one on the owners under the circumstances. The 24% rollback and the cap were already given away under his predecessors, but he got basically everything else that the owners now want back.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:36 AM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenBanks56 View Post
we'll never know whats going on behind the doors unless youre there in person.
They may be closer than ever. I never read into quotes or stupid twitter and facebook garbage.

In my opinion i think they are close because they havent cancelled any more games.
They've already cancelled all of November. Give it another 2 weeks and Dec will be gone as well. This season is a wash until Fehr is overthrown.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenBanks56 View Post
we'll never know whats going on behind the doors unless youre there in person.
They may be closer than ever. I never read into quotes or stupid twitter and facebook garbage.

In my opinion i think they are close because they havent cancelled any more games.
Entire November has already been cancelled. Just wait after thanksgiving it will be all over.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post

Recchi was stunned three years ago when the players abruptly fired Paul Kelly as the union’s executive director, and was among the very few in the Bruins’ dressing room to let his feelings known, especially to teammate Andrew Ference, who helped lead the mutiny against Kelly. He felt Kelly was the right man for the job, someone who could protect the players’ best interests while also working to build on a true partnership with the league.

“A dark time,’’ said Recchi, reflecting on Kelly’s ouster. “And it has been frustrating to see how it’s played out, obviously. If Paul had stayed on the job, I don’t think you would have seen this happen. The two sides would have started talking long before, maybe a year sooner [in 2011], and not with two or three months to go before [the CBA] expired
I hope for the players sake that Recchi isn't the only intelligent individual having this train of thought.

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11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #155
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I'm not sure where Daly got that 65% figure from, unless he is saying that NHL will pay the players for 82 games 2012-2013 season, no matter what. And I assume that's not what he is meaning, because it would be insane.

Sounds like some creative mental accounting, just like when Fehr says the players have already given up $900M- $1200M*


* - reductions in future growth assuming the players should have gotten 57% otherwise, which is a completely bizarre stance

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:37 AM
  #156
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I have to wonder if all the talk about the NHL and NHLPA being close on financials is just fools gold,spin from the PA.None of that talk has come from the league side

It does bear all the marks of Fehr PR gambit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burtonboy View Post
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
Bill Daly told CSN that the NHLPA's latest offer would have the players making 65% of the HRR in Year 1 of the deal. #HireMediator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull

Daly tells Phila Inquirer sides r "very far apart. The players are asking for guaranteed dollars + a 'raise' year-over-year." #NHL #NHLPA
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wi.../57299562.html

instead of responding to the NHL’s proposals on revenue sharing and split of revenues, Don Fehr tried to demonstrate on paper how the two sides mathematically were “much closer together” than the league thought. The league disagreed, and things were off to a bad start
.................................................. .................................................

One day hopefully we'll get to see the NHL again. I'm not convinced it'll be any time soon though.

There's a schism between the two sides right now and it's pretty poisonous. The NHL wants to go to 50-50 and "Make Whole," and the NHLPA wants guaranteed $1.9 billion-plus next year (more than last year's share when revenue will decrease who knows because of this lockout) and an increase for the four subsequent years of the deal.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:38 AM
  #157
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A lost season does not benefit the players. Fehr must know this, and he must be stalling as late as possible to milk the NHL for all it will give.

It also wouldn't surprise me to see Fehr pull a "Katz" with the NHL and move the goalposts at the last minute.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperUnknown View Post
I hope for the players sake that Recchi isn't the only intelligent individual having this train of thought.
The players have voices and their voices are showing us that yes, Recchi is in fact the only intelligent (ex)hockey player

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11-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santiclaws View Post
-Voltaire
Fitting quote and exactly how I see it. People can apply blame as they wish but I have never waivered from the stance that with each passing day that this lockout persists, it creates more blame for BOTH sides to share.

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11-13-2012, 11:39 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Too bad the players didn't realize at the time that Kelly did a great job of pulling a fast one on the owners under the circumstances. The 24% rollback and the cap were already given away under his predecessors, but he got basically everything else that the owners now want back.
Hind sight is always 20/20. I wish the majority of the players would step up and take control of this thing. There is a small group of wealthy players who are controlling this situation and that needs to stop. Too many personal agenda's going on.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:42 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Stats01 View Post
Everyone should've known when they hired Fehr that this was going to be a fight. This is probably Fehr's last battle and you gotta know that he's not going out without getting his money's worth. The players are crying poor and whining but their goal was to end up with a situation like this. They wanted someone who would fight and claw for them and now they got it.
what was the saying the players were using after the kelly ousting? he's to nice, they want someone who isn't going to play nice?

so in other words, they don't want a partnership or to some extent an agreement. they just want a war.

it is one reason why when i said last night, that fehrs end game is no cap i wasn't joking about it fully.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:43 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-where-were-we

LeBrun on the three (biggest) issues outstanding: core economic issues, player contracting and...
Pro rating whatever they decide on core economic issues should solve #3 though no? Get to 50/50 and if the owners agree, toss in a wage inflator to solve #1 and we are left with contract rights. I would extend UFA to 28, add in a 5% movement from year to year and cap them at 10 years or something.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
No. As I've been saying for awhile now, the PA saying 'we're close' on HRR split is a smoke screen. They hope people will gloss over (and the NYT article did gloss over it) the fact that the PA is still demanding delinked cap which is a very significant difference.
It is a significant difference, but that could be what Fehr means by "when the moment is right a deal could be reached very quickly". When one side budges on that, it should all fall into place. It's just who will budge first.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #164
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I want a resolve on this season whether there are games or not. I want the NHL to flip the bird to the PA and just hard ball them 1 more offer December 1st that is take it or the entire season is getting canned. Pa will reject it but atleast this would effectively end the season.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:46 AM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
The players have voices and their voices are showing us that yes, Recchi is in fact the only intelligent (ex)hockey player
except all ex players are telling the players to take basically any deal now, it is not worth the wait for something else to come along.

the only ex player that has said anything good about the players has been fleury, who wasn't even around for the last lockout.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:49 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Here is the full Recchi article,just saw the tweets before:

http://bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/1...HvO/story.html

The longer they’re out, the revenues are going to go down and down,’’ said Recchi, explaining why he believes the NHL’s offer is only going to get worse. “Corporate sponsors aren’t going to be lining up . . . so there goes that money. The schedule isn’t going to be 82 games, I don’t think, at this point. That’s more money lost. So, how are you going to get a better deal? Personally, I think the best time is now.’’
.................................................. ..........................................


Recchi was stunned three years ago when the players abruptly fired Paul Kelly as the union’s executive director, and was among the very few in the Bruins’ dressing room to let his feelings known, especially to teammate Andrew Ference, who helped lead the mutiny against Kelly. He felt Kelly was the right man for the job, someone who could protect the players’ best interests while also working to build on a true partnership with the league.

“A dark time,’’ said Recchi, reflecting on Kelly’s ouster. “And it has been frustrating to see how it’s played out, obviously. If Paul had stayed on the job, I don’t think you would have seen this happen. The two sides would have started talking long before, maybe a year sooner [in 2011], and not with two or three months to go before [the CBA] expired
Recchi seems to be one of the few players or former players who gets it. If there is not a big faction of the NHLPA that is questioning its leadership at this moment I've got to question the intelligence of the players as a group.

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Old
11-13-2012, 11:50 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
So what did Steve Fehr mean yesterday when he said one of the issues was still who pays for what if season is shortened? What is there to pay for?
Hasn't there been talk about Molson discussing compensation for the lockout with the league?

65% is just BS, but we will keep hearing stuff like that from the league since they are never called out for it...

Imagined if Fehr walked up to a bunch of repoters and said "Hey Bettman just offered us 30%", and it turned out he was just BSing them? He would have been killed by media...

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11-13-2012, 11:52 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm not sure where Daly got that 65% figure from, unless he is saying that NHL will pay the players for 82 games 2012-2013 season, no matter what. And I assume that's not what he is meaning, because it would be insane.

Sounds like some creative mental accounting, just like when Fehr says the players have already given up $900M- $1200M*


* - reductions in future growth assuming the players should have gotten 57% otherwise, which is a completely bizarre stance
It's estimated that the league has lost 720M (not including the revenues that will be lost with a cancelled Winter Classic).

Assuming that the league could have matched revenues of last year, revenues have dropped from 3.3B to 2.58B. If players want to prorate that number and be paid (say for a 70 game season) at face value of their contracts (+ that 1.75% raise they want), that means that their share will be 63% HRR in year 1. If they want the league to cover the cost of the shortened season by demanding full pay of contracts, the players are looking at a 74% share of HRR. No way I see the league agree to either of those options.

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11-13-2012, 11:53 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Hasn't there been talk about Molson discussing compensation for the lockout with the league?
yeah that is a sponsor, that is asking for part of the money they are losing because of this lockout (which if its in the contract they have a fight, if its not then they are out of luck).

but they will not get every thing they are asking for, they are also asking for beer sells that they are losing out because of bars not being able to play hockey games. and same goes for restuarants, beer sells in the beer store/lcbo.

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11-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #170
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Geez, Recchi needs to talk some sense into these guys.

Keep in mind that Recchi also knows Eric Lindros very well. Another one of the major players in this coupe.

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11-13-2012, 11:54 AM
  #171
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It is funny to me that we've now had 4-5 ex players who have been through this thing before saying that it's not worth it and to get the deal done now. I honestly believe those guys aren't trying to throw their peers under the bus and want to keep quiet like the rest of the older guys have but they can sense impending disaster.

It's incredible and I guess a testament to Fehr in some sick way that the PA doesn't see the cliff coming.

I want to feel bad for them, but I can't bring myself to.

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11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
  #172
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Mark Recchi, who benefited to the tune of about $51,000,000 over his career, should just keep his mouth shut and let today's players worry about today's CBA.

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11-13-2012, 11:56 AM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
yeah that is a sponsor, that is asking for part of the money they are losing because of this lockout (which if its in the contract they have a fight, if its not then they are out of luck).

but they will not get every thing they are asking for, they are also asking for beer sells that they are losing out because of bars not being able to play hockey games. and same goes for restuarants, beer sells in the beer store/lcbo.
Yeah, my point is just that isn't it very likely that its just that which is mentioned when they talk about who should pay for the lockout?

I mean, some seem to believe the absurd idea that if -- for example -- half the revenue of the league is lost this season the players would want 100% of revenue in y1. Hmm, yeah that sounds credible. But Daly said it...

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11-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #174
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Finally. There's a player I've respected very much. And when he speaks out, I respect him even more. Mark Recchi, what a fine man.

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11-13-2012, 11:57 AM
  #175
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Because

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
But the nhlpa keep telling the owners what to do with their money (increased revenue sharing).
Why can't the owners play that right back at them?
The request for revenue sharing is the PA's way of calling the NHL's bluff. The NHL says the justification for the reduction in HRR split is to help the unprofitable teams out. The PA says Ok but have the CBA REQUIRE that the increase of funds available to ownership does go from the profitable teams to the unprofitable teams.

Seems like an appropriate response to the NHL claims of having unprofitable teams.

Just mho,

F1

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