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islanders - black hawks

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:14 PM
  #26
startainfection
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Islanders are in no position to be giving up first rounders.
with the amount of top notch prospects that they have i say they are in a position to do such a thing

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:15 PM
  #27
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Bad trade for both teams, imho.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:17 PM
  #28
blinkman360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Islanders are in no position to be giving up first rounders.
Yes they are, depending on who they are getting in return. The Islanders have completely stockpiled youth and high-end youth for the last 5+ years. Barring that pick being in the top-2, I'm pretty sure Snow would be open to trading it away if it meant bringing in a solid, established, in-his-prime or prime-entering player. The Islanders already have a ton of youth, so much so that a lot of these guys probably won't ever even get a shot to make this team.

Trading a first really won't effect much of this team's rebuild. If anything, it will help speed it along.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Of course it would, but how much higher? Enough to warrant the risk of seeing his value drop if he struggles? If his value at the end of this year is high enough to bring back a Keith Yandle when packaged with a first, I'm pretty sure I'd pull the trigger. If he improves his value with NHL play, maybe that trade becomes Nelson and a 2nd instead of Nelson and a 1st. If he doesn't and his value takes a hit, that trade would probably become Nelson, Kabanov and a 1st. I'd rather just play it safe and make the deal before he gets NHL time. At this point, I'd be completely fine with this team trading away a 1st if they need to.
I'd be totally against trading away the first, until after the draft order is determined.

I'd also rather see Brock Nelson get NHL playing time on LI, before using him as trade bait.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Islanders are in no position to be giving up first rounders.
Depends on how you look at it. The Isles have an abundance of young, inexperienced talent that could be poised to make a run at the playoffs. They could go from 0 to 60 very quickly.

If you believe in your team and you are able to augment that youthful talent with the right veteran skill that can lead and teach, a first round pick would be the perfect asset to give up. It would just have to be for the right player.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:26 PM
  #31
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Keep Frans, he is tremendous is all zones and can play both the Powerplay and the Penalty kill. I think the Isles are going to try and transition one of Strome/Nelson to wing so we can keep forward depth.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Yes they are, depending on who they are getting in return. The Islanders have completely stockpiled youth and high-end youth for the last 5+ years. Barring that pick being in the top-2, I'm pretty sure Snow would be open to trading it away if it meant bringing in a solid, established, in-his-prime or prime-entering player. The Islanders already have a ton of youth, so much so that a lot of these guys probably won't ever even get a shot to make this team.

Trading a first really won't effect much of this team's rebuild. If anything, it will help speed it along.
Depends on who is expected to be on the board, when Snow picks.

We've read every draft, since the 2010 draft, that Snow's shopped his high lottery picks, demanding a young player back, with upside on the level of the prospects expected to be on the board when Snow picked.

I don't see Snow, with his glut of unproven youngsters, changing his trade demands and imo he shouldn't. If Snow's giving up a potential young stud, I expect he'll again demand a potential young stud back.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:28 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Golie View Post
Depends on how you look at it. The Isles have an abundance of young, inexperienced talent that could be poised to make a run at the playoffs. They could go from 0 to 60 very quickly.

If you believe in your team and you are able to augment that youthful talent with the right veteran skill that can lead and teach, a first round pick would be the perfect asset to give up. It would just have to be for the right player.
You don't give up first rounders until your are solidified playoff teams with studs at each position. Right now we have a good crop of forwards led by JT, but our defense is held down by Travis Hamonic, other than that there are no sure things. In goal we have a aging Nabby and Poulin and Nilsson are still developing.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:35 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think Nelson will eventually be traded, or at least dangled on the trade market. If the Islanders plan on having a future of Tavares-Strome-Nielsen-Cizikas up the middle, I don't see why Snow shouldn't at least explore his options with packaging Nelson away for a defenseman. Especially if a guy like Yandle or Subban or whoever becomes available. Even if you think Nelson can/will become a great player, if you can obtain a quality young player that fits a huge need while not weakening yourself in any other area, IMO you'd be foolish to not at least look into it.
From an outside perspective, if you can use Nelson as the centerpiece in a trade to land Keith Yandle, it should be explored. Yandle feeding breakout passes to Tavares would be nice to see.

Don't know if the plus would need to be a 1st, but something else tangible might pique their interest. The Coyotes organization is deep with defense prospects so adding a forward prospect like Ullstrom might be good enough. Tweaks from both sides may be possible as well.

*Not sure how high the Islander organization is on Ullstrom. Thought more fans could accept dealing him away as opposed to say ... Kabanov. Just spit ballin' here.

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Old
11-13-2012, 12:59 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I'd be totally against trading away the first, until after the draft order is determined.

I'd also rather see Brock Nelson get NHL playing time on LI, before using him as trade bait.
Yes, I'd wait for the order as well, but barring us getting one of the top-2 picks, I'd be completely open to trading the pick away.

Again, as far as Nelson goes, if we can center a package around him to get Yandle, I really wouldn't care what the kid is capable of doing at the NHL level. I have enough confidence in Strome becomming a great 2nd line center so I don't see us losing much/if anything production wise, and on top of that Nelson would be playing in the Western Conference so even if he does turn into a stud, it really wouldn't hurt us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Depends on who is expected to be on the board, when Snow picks.

We've read every draft, since the 2010 draft, that Snow's shopped his high lottery picks, demanding a young player back, with upside on the level of the prospects expected to be on the board when Snow picked.

I don't see Snow, with his glut of unproven youngsters, changing his trade demands and imo he shouldn't. If Snow's giving up a potential young stud, I expect he'll again demand a potential young stud back.
Which is exactly what Keith Yandle is. Unless we have a shot at MacKinnon or Jones, I'd gladly part ways with a 1st to bring him in. No question about it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
From an outside perspective, if you can use Nelson as the centerpiece in a trade to land Keith Yandle, it should be explored. Yandle feeding breakout passes to Tavares would be nice to see.

Don't know if the plus would need to be a 1st, but something else tangible might pique their interest. The Coyotes organization is deep with defense prospects so adding a forward prospect like Ullstrom might be good enough. Tweaks from both sides may be possible as well.

*Not sure how high the Islander organization is on Ullstrom. Thought more fans could accept dealing him away as opposed to say ... Kabanov. Just spit ballin' here.
I've thought about it a lot, and IMO the two teams really do make great trade partners. NYI have a glut of centers, PHX have a glut of defenseman. As far as the value goes, by the end of the year you could be right. Nelson's value alone could be close to that of Yandle, and it might not require a 1st rounder to be added. I suppose Ullstrom could be had, although I do like him. Either way, I see him more as a 3rd line player here in the future, so if it came down Nelson and Ullstrom for Yandle I think I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat. Not so sure Phoenix would, though.

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:14 PM
  #36
PWJunior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Yes, I'd wait for the order as well, but barring us getting one of the top-2 picks, I'd be completely open to trading the pick away.

Again, as far as Nelson goes, if we can center a package around him to get Yandle, I really wouldn't care what the kid is capable of doing at the NHL level. I have enough confidence in Strome becomming a great 2nd line center so I don't see us losing much/if anything production wise, and on top of that Nelson would be playing in the Western Conference so even if he does turn into a stud, it really wouldn't hurt us.
I think Nelson is more advanced in his development than Strome is and is probably better equipped at the current time to play in the NHL. Rather than trading Nelson (we don't even know his true ceiling yet), I think it's smarter to keep both to see who wins #2 center spot and then make adjustments from there. Move someone to the wing, trade them, whatever you want. It's premature to choose one over the other right now. Not all prospects pan out and having 2 to hedge your bets is what I'd like to see.

Quote:
Which is exactly what Keith Yandle is. Unless we have a shot at MacKinnon or Jones, I'd gladly part ways with a 1st to bring him in. No question about it.
Blink, we all know you have a mancrush on Yandle. I'd like him on the Isles too, but I don't see the Isles in a position to start making decisions on personnel when the majority of them have yet to establish themselves in professional hockey (AHL or NHL). Yes, our prospect base looks nice and shiny - it is still too early to see who goes and who stays. I'd rather wait another year or two and then make moves when we have a better idea of who is in the future plans.

Quote:
I've thought about it a lot, and IMO the two teams really do make great trade partners. NYI have a glut of centers, PHX have a glut of defenseman. As far as the value goes, by the end of the year you could be right. Nelson's value alone could be close to that of Yandle, and it might not require a 1st rounder to be added. I suppose Ullstrom could be had, although I do like him. Either way, I see him more as a 3rd line player here in the future, so if it came down Nelson and Ullstrom for Yandle I think I'd pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat. Not so sure Phoenix would, though.
I could see synergy between the Isles and Coyotes. What I don't see is a true match at the current time. I don't think either team is looking for a good 'ole hockey trade, our offensive prospect for your defensive prospect. The cost associated with any deals is probably not palatable at this current time for the Isles as they have the less established talent. Things could change drastically by next year though.

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Old
11-13-2012, 01:48 PM
  #37
blinkman360
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Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I think Nelson is more advanced in his development than Strome is and is probably better equipped at the current time to play in the NHL. Rather than trading Nelson (we don't even know his true ceiling yet), I think it's smarter to keep both to see who wins #2 center spot and then make adjustments from there. Move someone to the wing, trade them, whatever you want. It's premature to choose one over the other right now. Not all prospects pan out and having 2 to hedge your bets is what I'd like to see.
I get it, but at some point you need to take a risk. Who's to say Nelson doesn't pan out, and you end up with a guy who was once a top prospect that you could have used to acquire a top-20 defenseman, but is now a player with absolutely zero trade value. Sure, Nelson is further along than Strome, but I still see Strome as the much safer bet between the two. His hockey IQ and work ethic is what has me sold. Not to say I don't have confidence in Nelson becomming a great player, but I wouldn't hold onto him in fear of Strome not panning out. Call me a homer, I just think the odds of that happening are rather small.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
Blink, we all know you have a mancrush on Yandle. I'd like him on the Isles too, but I don't see the Isles in a position to start making decisions on personnel when the majority of them have yet to establish themselves in professional hockey (AHL or NHL). Yes, our prospect base looks nice and shiny - it is still too early to see who goes and who stays. I'd rather wait another year or two and then make moves when we have a better idea of who is in the future plans.
The reason I have a mancrush on Yandle is because he's one of the only legit, young, top-2/3 defensemen in the entire league who could realistically be had in a trade without completely crippling our system.

And just a heads up, you don't have to wait for a prospect to reach the pro level before you trade them. A lot of times, prospects have more value before they reach the pro level than after. See: Nino(not to say Nino won't still become a great player, but his value is probably half of what it was last offseason).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWJunior View Post
I could see synergy between the Isles and Coyotes. What I don't see is a true match at the current time. I don't think either team is looking for a good 'ole hockey trade, our offensive prospect for your defensive prospect. The cost associated with any deals is probably not palatable at this current time for the Isles as they have the less established talent. Things could change drastically by next year though.
Agree to disagree. I personally think it makes too much sense for either team to not at least look into it. Isles need established talent on the blue-line, especially guys who can move the puck. Chances are Visnovsky will be gone next year, and while I think Streit will be back there's always the chance that he won't be. Even if he stays, we could still desperately use a player like Yandle.

Phoenix is completely bare of top-end forward talent in their system and at the NHL level. Especially centers. Getting a prospect like Nelson, who would arguably be NHL ready at the time, as well as a solid pick/prospect could be too much for them to pass up.

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Old
11-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #38
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Does nothing for Hawks other then weaken team now and just add more prospects to a good prospect pool which is something that isn't needed. Nielsen is nice but rest of package doesn't help Hawks at this time (And Bailey looks like a bust)

Isles wouldn't do it as they give up too much going forward and Sharp isn't going to put them over the top (Carcillo is 4th line/3rd liner and Hayes is a ok not great prospect)

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Old
11-13-2012, 03:18 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Clyde Donovan View Post
Islanders are in no position to be giving up first rounders.
I have to agree, not a bad deal if the Islanders challenge for a playoff spot, but terrible deal if the Islanders finish bottom 5 again

If the Islanders want to trade their first rounder this year they are better off waiting till the draft when that pick has an exact value

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Old
11-13-2012, 06:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
ok there is a reason that i don't usually post proposals but here it is

to the Blackhawks
Bailey
Nielsen
Andrei Pedan
2013 first
2013 second

to the Isles
Sharp
Carcillo
Jimmy Hayes

the main point of this trade is to get sharp on the isles
I never would have guessed

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Old
11-14-2012, 09:26 AM
  #41
Jeffrey Lebowski
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No way the Hawks do that. If Sharp's going to NYI, I'd demand Reinhart and Strome. Proven commodity for two great prospects.

Overpriced? Yeah, probably. But Hawks have no reason to give up an established player who is a leader on our team and our only bonafide top 6 LWer. He's versatile (can play any forward position), good for ~30 goals and 70 points with good two-way play... the Hawks need another one of those, if anything.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:14 AM
  #42
CREW99AW
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey Lebowski View Post
No way the Hawks do that. If Sharp's going to NYI, I'd demand Reinhart and Strome. Proven commodity for two great prospects.

Overpriced? Yeah, probably. But Hawks have no reason to give up an established player who is a leader on our team and our only bonafide top 6 LWer. He's versatile (can play any forward position), good for ~30 goals and 70 points with good two-way play... the Hawks need another one of those, if anything.
Nah.


I'd rather see no trade at this time, then a Milburylike trade.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:23 AM
  #43
Clyde Donovan
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
You don't give up first rounders until your are solidified playoff teams with studs at each position. Right now we have a good crop of forwards led by JT, but our defense is held down by Travis Hamonic, other than that there are no sure things. In goal we have a aging Nabby and Poulin and Nilsson are still developing.
This was my line of thought. I think the Islanders as a team will want to prove they can get out of the basement, let alone make the playoffs, before they start shelling out 1st rounders. Once they look like a lock for the playoffs for the forseeable future they start adding the key pieces they need with first rounders or expendable prospects for a deep run.

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