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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

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11-06-2012, 12:52 AM
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kdb209
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Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

We've gotten older losing our hair,
Three plus years by now.
We're still reading 'bout a bankruptcy
New owners, leases, and subsidies.
CoG claims that if the 'Yotes move
Westgate locks the door,
Will you still need me, will you still read me,
On thread LXIV.

There is Goldwater too,
And if you say the word,
They could just sue you.

Read a decision, sell Casual Beads,
When the votes are done.
Have a referendum upheld by the bench.
Learn to say Coyotes in French?
Doing the budgets, digging a hole,
GJ could ask for more.
Will you still need me, will you still read me,
On thread LXIV.

Every thread we might read a post
On the Isle of Wight, by Killion,
Stream of consciousness.
Moderators are on their knees
Fugu LS & me.

Start up a new thread, make a new post,
Stating point of view
Indicate precisely what you mean to say
We're sincerely, wasting away
Give a new answer, make a new claim
We've read it all before
Will you still need me, will you still read me,
On thread LXIV.

12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ
03-11-2011 Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?
03-16-2011 Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money
03-20-2011 Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show
03-22-2011 Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead
03-27-2011 Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop
04-05-2011 Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater
04-14-2011 Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence
04-20-2011 Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem
04-25-2011 Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...
05-03-2011 Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after
05-10-2011 Phoenix XXXVII - The Heat is On

Followed by the Interregnum between Kings Phoenix the XXXVII-th and Phoenix the XXXVIII-th:

[PYTHON]
The most interesting thing about King Charles, the first
Is that he was 5 foot 6 inches tall at the start of his reign
But only 4 foot 8 inches tall at the end of it because of
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England Puritan
Born in 1599 and died in 1658 September
[/PYTHON]

06-09-2011 ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out
06-20-2011 Coyotes related: Westgate faces foreclosure
06-21-2011 Phoenix, worst case scenario

Finally, the realm was restored ...

06-27-2011 Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes
08-16-2011 Phoenix XXXIX: You Never Give Me Your Money
10-18-2011 Phoenix XL: Rich Man's World
12-07-2011 Phoenix XLI: Bongo Fury
01-06-2012 Phoenix XLII: The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything
02-02-2012 Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks
02-28-2012 Phoenix XLIV: Ignorance & Apathy (or I Doan't know & I Doan't Care)
03-28-2012 Phoenix XLV: You can't YANDLE the truth!
04-11-2012 Phoenix XLVI: (Tre)living on a prayer
04-21-2012 Phoenix XLVII: More Threads than Superbowls
05-01-2012 Phoenix XLVIII: Of Mice and Lieberman
05-08-2012 Phoenix XLIX: Smoke & Mirrors
05-21-2012 Phoenix L: AllByDesign?
05-30-2012 Phoenix LI: es, Damn Lies, and Arena Management Fees
06-06-2012 Phoenix LII: Goodnight, Sweet Lieberman
06-08-2012 Phoenix LIII: How the GWInch Stole Phoenix
06-12-2012 Phoenix LIV:E and Let Die
06-19-2012 Phoenix LV: is Has Left the Building
06-26-2012 Phoenix LVI: s is Still Dead (or Maybe Working at a 7-11 in Glendale)
07-04-2012 Phoenix LVII (or MDCCLXXVI): Declarations of (In)Dependence
07-13-2012 Phoenix LVIII; Will jobbing get jobbed?
07-30-2012 Phoenix LIX: The JIG is up?
08-18-2012 Phoenix LX: Pinocchio's Furniture
09-07-2012 Phoenix LXI; We agreed to pay HOW MUCH‽
09-26-2012 Phoenix LXII: Abandon Hope all Ye Who Enter Here
10-16-2012 Phoenix LXIII: Have Become, Comfortably Numb;
11-06-2012 Phoenix LXIV: Will You Still Need Me, Will You Still Read Me, on Thread LXIV?

A couple whole bunch of Phoenix uThreads have popped up in the wake of the "To close, or not to close" mega-thread discussion:

03-16-2012 COG to spend more on Coyotes than public safety?
03-22-2012 Dreger (3/22): NHL to investigate "plan b" for Phoenix
03-23-2012 Sunnicks strikes again "will they stay or will they go now?"
03-28-2012 G&M: Architects of Glendale pro sports disaster won't be around for fallout
03-30-2012 Shoalts: Ice Edge talking about bringing (minor) hockey to the Job should Yotes leave
04-04-2012 Shoalts: Glendale Mayor Scruggs wants city's $$ back
04-05-2012 Coyotes CEO 'confident' team is staying in Glendale
04-05-2012 Puck Daddy: Coyotes battline relocation worries with public optimism
04-06-2012 A strong PHX team in the playoffs may bring a new owner.
04-10-2012 Father of PHX AGM Brad Treliving involved in keeping Coyotes in Glendale?
04-10-2012 PKP offer for Coyotes may be 230 million (mod: to QC w/relo $$)
04-10-2012 Beasley: Coyotes deal within a month
04-11-2012 Glendale, NHL trying to close Phoenix Coyotes deal with Jamison group
04-11-2012 Bettman: no timeline on Phoenix situation (AP)
04-13-2012 Adding up the Numbers in the Phoenix Jamison Bid
04-16-2012 COG's Lieberman calls for demonstration against Coyote deal
04-17-2012 COG - budget payment to Jamison group not to exceed $20m?
04-17-2012 GWI ready to scrutinize new deal
04-18-2012 Coyotes sale soon, five things to watch
04-21-2012 Jamison looking for more investors on Coyotes bid, could be 1-2 months away from deal
04-21-2012 Greg Jamison finally goes public with potential purchase of the Coyotes
04-24-2012 Glendale Busts its Budget; Pledges More Money for Yotes
04-27-2012 Coyotes working to convert bandwagon fans to full time fans
04-28-2-12 4/28: Coyote sale deal getting closer
04-30-2012 Phoenix Coyotes sale finalized May 8th? Hulsizer back in?
05-03-2012 Phoenix CEO/Pres Nealy - something could happen next week
05-04-2012 Feschuk: Phoenix Coyotes doing just fine, thanks
05-04-2012 If the yotes make the finals
05-04-2012 Former Coyotes owner Jerry Moyes assails NHL over Coyotes’ operations
05-07-2012 NHL to announce tentative deal re: sale to Jamison
05-08-2012 Sportsnet: COG promising $306mm over next 21 years
05-08-2012 Wall Street Journal: 'Glendale's Public Hockey Project' = Loss
05-17-2012 Phoenix saga: 5/22 end date
05-17-2012 Jamison signing preliminary sales docs with NHL 5/17 or 5/18
05-21-2012 Goldwater Inst. ready to sue Glendale over arena management deal
05-23-2012 COG council approves preliminary budget with $17m payment for arena management
05-25-2012 Preliminary draft of lease agreement for Jobing.com in hands of COG board
06-04-2012 Phoenix lease details
06-05-2012 Bettmans plan may unravel in Phoenix (vote coming 6/8)
06-06-2012 The angst of Phoenix -- from three major league teams to one (that use city name)
06-06-2012 Forbes: Jamison having trouble raising funds
06-07-2012 GWI letter to Glendale Mayor and Coucilmembers
06-07-2012 Arizona Free Enterprise Club opposes COG deal
06-07-2012 Goldwater Institute Files for Restraining Order
06-11-2012 Coyote name change on hold?
06-13-2012 13 June, Goldwater files suit
06-14-2012 Halverstadt on NHL Home Ice talking Coyotes
06-14-2012 Coyotes deadline "now"? NHL schedule releasing soon
06-15-2012 PBJ: CoG says they'll withstand GWI legal challenge
06-15-2012 AFEC considering ballot (referendum) and COG concil recall
06-18-2012 Phoenix Coyotes, NHL looking for legal counsel to represent team, arena
06-19-2012 Coyotes deal not immediately effective - Referendum to follow?
06-26-2012 COG + GWI agreement on non-emergency status
06-28-2012 Jones/Cobb v Glendale (Coyotes Court Case)
07-04-2012 Coyotes PAC formed
07-04-2012 COG city council candidates voice opposition to Coyotes deal
07-05-2012 Shoalts 7/5 update on Coyotes situation
07-09-2012 Coyotes lease referendum petition not submitted by 7/9
07-11-2012 Glendale rejects group's attempt to overturn sales-tax increase
07-12-2012 PBJ: Jamison group has funding for purchase of Coyotes
07-16-2012 2 COG referendum proponents gearing up for legal battle
07-26-2012 Jones & Cobb decide to NOT file lawsuit after their lease referendum rejected
07-26-2012 PBJ: 7/27 deadline for Coyotes sale?
07-28-2012 PBJ: 7/28: Jamison short $20mm?
07-31-2012 Glendale arena proposal scheduled to expire 7/31, extended another 31 days
08-01-2012 Mayoral candidates speaking out on Coyotes prospective owner
08-08-2012 PBJ: 8/8 Jamison group apparently now has the funds to buy Coyotes
08-10-2012 SBN's Five for Howling: Coyotes sale a done deal
08-16-2012 COG mayoral candidate: Rework proposed lease due to lockout
08-18-2012 CBA uncertainty delaying Coyotes sale?
08-24-2012 8/24: Appeals Court Orders Glendale Sales-Tax Measure to be put Back on Ballot
08-27-2012 8/27 COG extends lease (with NHL) again (pending sale to Jamison group)
08-29-2012 COG seeking change to negotiated proposed arena deal with Jamison
09-04-2012 ESPN Burnside has source that says Jamison's got funding, arena deal to be done
09-11-2012 PBJ: O’odham tribe now involved in Jamison's deal to buy team?
09-29-2012 Final details on Coyotes lease to be settled 10/3?
10-07-2012 Final vote on reworked Jobing.com lease coming 10/23?
10-08-2012 Deja vu, redux = COG talk about extending agreement with NHL another 30 days
11-01-2012 Dater: Phoenix reason for lockout
11-07-2012 Impact of Glendale election on fate of Phoenix Coyotes future

And, hey, why not, for completeness:

03-05-2010 NHL sues Jerry Moyes


Last edited by kdb209: 11-21-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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11-06-2012, 12:01 PM
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http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ers-audit.html

Some comments from the Glendale City Council whom had tough questions for interim City Manager Horatio Skeete in a special meeting on Monday about an internal audit that showed $6 million was improperly spent.

Skeete oversaw the Human Resources Department as deputy city manager during the time of the transfers. In general, he said the city manager had final say on these matters.
City Manager Ed Beasley retired in June. Documents show some others who knew about the situation also retired, including a risk manager and the HR director.


Councilwoman Yvonne Knaack said it made her “sick to her stomach” to hear about staff bolstering the general fund through such transfers.

Councilwoman Norma Alvarez pointed to a culture of spending “regardless of whether we have the money or not.”

Best quote:

Mayor Elaine Scruggs said she was particularly disturbed when she read a 2009 e-mail from the former city risk manager, copied to the former HR director and the present budget chiefs, suggesting ways to get around a state law that prohibits taking money out of trust funds for other expenses.

Staff working to circumvent the law “cannot be tolerated,” Scruggs said.


This coming from the Mayor of the burg that has spent the last 3 years doing all it can to circumvent Arizona law in regards to the Gift Clause. Sorry.... can't ... stop ... laughing...

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11-06-2012, 12:09 PM
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I read all the lyrics in tune.

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11-06-2012, 12:24 PM
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kdb209
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The end of the last thread got ugly.

The trolling stops now.

Stop the market bashing, Schadenfreude, and giddy comments concerning today's votes.

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11-06-2012, 12:25 PM
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Thanks barneyg... objectiveposter. That definately clarifies things.


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11-06-2012, 12:25 PM
  #6
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Been lurking this board for the last six months. Registered to say this thread title and lyrics are hilarious!

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11-06-2012, 12:30 PM
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ajmidd12
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Aww kbd why can't we have a little fun at the expense of Glendale? After all the Coyotes fans did when Winnipeg was looking to get a team, same with Hamilton, and now Quebec, and so on and so on.

You may as well shut down the Coyotes subforum as lots of it bashing other markets.

When do the polls close by the way guys?

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11-06-2012, 12:33 PM
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are we there yet?

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11-06-2012, 12:35 PM
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11-06-2012, 12:38 PM
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rj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Quote:
It’s unclear how the financially strapped city will rebuild its Risk Management Trust Fund, which fell to less than $3 million this June.

The audit noted the low balance leaves the city exposed to the risk of being unable to cover liabilities, which is the fund’s purpose.

...The mayor questioned how the city can rebuild the risk management fund.

Skeete had no good answer.

He said the general fund’s balance is in the negative when considering other obligations that must be repaid.

These obligations include borrowing from utility funds to pay the National Hockey League $50million to manage the city’s arena.
Well bankruptcy can't be too far off. Sad, but it's what happens when you elect poor leaders with pie in the sky dreams and bail town when the problems start. Not to go overly political here but it is election day and so whatever you decide to do when voting, just make sure you do your homework on who you will be voting for. President's easy, you find out about it all the time. It's much harder on stuff like city council and state legislature to see who does an honest job and who is just taking kickbacks.

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11-06-2012, 12:39 PM
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What the heck is that outfit? She looks like Obi-Wan Coyoti

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11-06-2012, 12:52 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Slashers98 View Post
What the heck is that outfit? She looks like Obi-Wan Coyoti
i believe that was a giveaway night where people got coyotes snuggies.

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11-06-2012, 12:58 PM
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oh man, my first post got deleted! very sad, it was my first time being first!


....To reformat my comments on friendly terms - I very much look forward to seeing positive results in today's Glendale tax increase proposition vote.

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11-06-2012, 12:59 PM
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i believe that was a giveaway night where people got coyotes snuggies.
Theres the problem, instead of giving away should be charging

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11-06-2012, 01:02 PM
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Slashers98
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i believe that was a giveaway night where people got coyotes snuggies.
Have you ever heard of a hockey fan wearing a snuggie while watching a game on TV?

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11-06-2012, 01:04 PM
  #16
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All I know is that in two weeks, we'll be talking about things happening in two weeks.

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11-06-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Aww kbd why can't we have a little fun at the expense of Glendale? After all the Coyotes fans did when Winnipeg was looking to get a team, same with Hamilton, and now Quebec, and so on and so on.

You may as well shut down the Coyotes subforum as lots of it bashing other markets.

When do the polls close by the way guys?
Arizona polls at 9

http://bostinno.com/2012/11/06/what-...9_255223_0__ss

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11-06-2012, 01:50 PM
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Gold kdb! Gold!

Can us old guys retire at LXV? What about our HF pension that Fugu promised us when this whole thing started?

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11-06-2012, 02:01 PM
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Gold kdb! Gold!

Can us old guys retire at LXV? What about our HF pension that Fugu promised us when this whole thing started?
Invested in CoG debt, so you'll be around for a while.

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11-06-2012, 02:11 PM
  #20
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Well bankruptcy can't be too far off. Sad, but it's what happens when you elect poor leaders with pie in the sky dreams and bail town when the problems start. Not to go overly political here but it is election day and so whatever you decide to do when voting, just make sure you do your homework on who you will be voting for. President's easy, you find out about it all the time. It's much harder on stuff like city council and state legislature to see who does an honest job and who is just taking kickbacks.
Quote:
The mayor questioned how the city can rebuild the risk management fund.

Skeete had no good answer.

He said the general fund’s balance is in the negative when considering other obligations that must be repaid.

These obligations include borrowing from utility funds to pay the National Hockey League $50million to manage the city’s arena.
I thought this last bit was interesting. I guess they do still have an obligation for the $25 million for year 2 of the subsidy. It seems that the financial obligations to the NHL to subsidize the Coyotes have pretty much cleaned the cupboard bare. It seems pretty shameful for the NHL to have done this after the COG supported the NHL's bid in bankruptcy court.

I have a feeling that Glendale and Coyotes' fans have not fully appreciated how little faith they should put in Bettman and the NHL. After all, the NHL recently brokered the relocation of an NHL franchise from a larger and more important market (Atlanta) after Bettman and Daly publicly cited poor fan support and poor arena location as the main reasons for the relocation.

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11-06-2012, 02:11 PM
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Invested in CoG debt, so you'll be around for a while.
Until the first cash call is made at least....

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11-06-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ers-audit.html

Best quote:

Mayor Elaine Scruggs said she was particularly disturbed when she read a 2009 e-mail from the former city risk manager, copied to the former HR director and the present budget chiefs, suggesting ways to get around a state law that prohibits taking money out of trust funds for other expenses.

Staff working to circumvent the law “cannot be tolerated,” Scruggs said.


This coming from the Mayor of the burg that has spent the last 3 years doing all it can to circumvent Arizona law in regards to the Gift Clause. Sorry.... can't ... stop ... laughing...
Honestly, gotta give credits to Shruggs, since I am following this saga, she has been anti-Coyotes/anti-AMF.

Tho, things seems to work by majority wins all, being it moral or immoral issue. So far, those for Coyotes have been a majority in council votes.

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11-06-2012, 02:31 PM
  #23
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The trolling is particularly distasteful in my opinion.

As a Canucks fan, we have things good. But we didn't always. Just over a decade ago, one Brian Burke was threatening to move the franchise. It was a disgusting feeling.

And that is only minor to what Coyotes fans have gone through over the last few years.

I get that fans in certain markets are desperate for hockey. And I think they deserve hockey.

But Phoenix fans deserve hockey as well. Perhaps the economics just won't work out. But, at the end of the day, it's our love of hockey that brings us together. It doesn't matter where you live or what your background is. Belittling another fan because they're different is low. It's unseemly. It's wrong.

And it shouldn't be reduced to a zero sum game. If the Coyotes don't survive in the Phoenix market, then I hope there is access to quality hockey there when they leave. Personally, I think it would be fantastic to have a Canucks farm team there. From what we've heard, the players think that there should be hockey in Phoenix. They enjoy playing there and think it's a great city.

You would think that fans in markets that have lost hockey would be more empathetic. As a hockey fan, if you aren't, then there is something wrong with you. Because even if the franchise does move to your market, you can't separate the fact that the players have history there. And you can hope that the management team and coaching staff comes with them, because they've proven to be among the best in the business. They deserve credit for what they've achieved.

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11-06-2012, 02:32 PM
  #24
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In the end, after every dollar spent is counted, would Glendale have been better just accepting Jimmy's money and telling Judge Baum their preference for Jim?

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11-06-2012, 02:35 PM
  #25
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If the team moves, yes, it probably would have been better for Glendale to take the money.

But that's besides the point. Balsillie would have been a terrible owner, and given his current financial situation, quite possibly an owner who wouldn't be able to afford to maintain a team regardless.

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