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MLB Off-Season Thread | Jays Acquire Dickey From Mets

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Old
12-17-2012, 04:47 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG Canuck View Post
So, how 'bout them Jays?

Dickey
Morrow
Buerhle
Romero
Johnson

Not bad.
Never hurts to have a good starting rotation like that. That's what wins championships right there.

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12-17-2012, 05:13 AM
  #102
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Deal isn't finalized yet, Dickey still has to sign an extension with the Jays by 2pm on Tuesday.

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12-17-2012, 02:12 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
Deal isn't finalized yet, Dickey still has to sign an extension with the Jays by 2pm on Tuesday.
And contract extension is done!

Dickey
Morrow
Buehrle
Johnson
Romero

Morrow is the only one who hasn't been an all-star in that rotation. I can now safely say **** hockey, it's baseball time.

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Old
12-17-2012, 02:19 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TheMicrowave View Post
And contract extension is done!

Dickey
Morrow
Buehrle
Johnson
Romero

Morrow is the only one who hasn't been an all-star in that rotation. I can now safely say **** hockey, it's baseball time.
Josh Johnson should be swapped with Morrow. Proven way more.

But that's semantics. They are greatly improved on paper, and now need to go out and get the results.

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12-17-2012, 02:38 PM
  #105
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Absolutely awesome. Dickey/Johnson/Buehrle is a sick top three ... this has eased my angst at the NHL lockout. Plus with that extension Dickey signed you have the cash to ink up Johnson as well. In addition to another high first round draft pick.

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12-17-2012, 05:21 PM
  #106
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Jays also get Mike Nikeas, a catcher from Vancouver. A side bit but an interesting side bit. Doubt he ever plays.

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12-17-2012, 05:43 PM
  #107
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I don't like the price though.
Travis d'Arnaud is the best catching prospect in baseball and very, very close to MLB ready.
He has a great bat, and is better than J.P. Arencibia in all aspects.

Then there is Noah Syndergaard.
He was part of the Lansing 3, along with Aaron Sanchez and Justin Nicolino, and was the best of the 3.
He has 3 plus pitches, at only 20 years old, and I see a long future for him.
The only saving grace is that Sanchez has better stuff, and is likely to be better than Syndergaard in the future.

I like Dickey, and he is a bargain at 5 million next year, but the man is 38 years old.
The age alone scares me.
They say knuckleballers last a long time, and he does not have that much pitching mileage on him.
Plus, there is no need to worry about a Tommy John surgery, quite simply because he does not have a ulnar collateral ligament in his throwing elbow, which is what the surgery fixes.
Still, one never knows with injuries, which becomes harder to heal as one gets older. More importantly, no one knows how long he can keep up his elite stats, especially in the AL East.
He has historically been lit there.
Even though he was great against them last year, it was only for 3 games, which could indicate an aberration rather than a trend.

Sure, he has a Cy Young, and he is a terrific person, but there are certainly enough risks to him.
I always thought that they don't need to put in 2 terrific prospects to get him.
That's a vast overpayment in my books.
Hopefully he is great for the Jays during the duration of the contract, because even at 25 million for 14-15, if he has anymore near the season he had this year, he is worth every penny.

Edit:
Now they just added Wuilmer Becerra.
The guy was a top international Latin America amateur signing 2 years ago.
That's just way too much to pay for Dickey.
I really, really hope he has elite seasons for the next 3 seasons.

On the bright side, the Jays farm is still pretty good.
There are some very good prospects left, which includes Sanchez, Osuna, who a lot of people are excited about, as he is only 17 and he already has very good stuff, Stroman, D. J. Davis, Nolin and Smoral.
It is definitely still top 10 to borderline top 10.
That just shows you how deep it is.


Last edited by nameless1: 12-17-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
12-17-2012, 05:48 PM
  #108
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If the Blue Jays win a world series in the next 4 years then I don't care if D'Arnaud and Syndergaard become Buster Posey and Justin Verlander.

At this point in time, they are 'prospects', albeit excellent ones. It doesn't take much to look at back at former MLB top prospects and see them out side the game of baseball a half dozen years later.

It sucks to give up the prospects, but this team currently HAD to go for it, there was no point in half assing it. Go big or go home.

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12-17-2012, 06:07 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
If the Blue Jays win a world series in the next 4 years then I don't care if D'Arnaud and Syndergaard become Buster Posey and Justin Verlander.

At this point in time, they are 'prospects', albeit excellent ones. It doesn't take much to look at back at former MLB top prospects and see them out side the game of baseball a half dozen years later.

It sucks to give up the prospects, but this team currently HAD to go for it, there was no point in half assing it. Go big or go home.
I agree the statement, "Go big or go home."
Now is the perfect time to do it too, as the AL East looks weaker.
I also agree prospects are prospects, and they could flame out very easily.

I just think it is an overpayment for Dickey.
3 very good prospects for a 38 years old who certainly comes with risks.
I think he needs at least 2 elite seasons before I can call this trade worthwhile.
If he sucked and the prospects become the next stars of tomorrow, then this trade is very, very hard to stomach, even if the Jays win a title during that time.

At least the Jays system is still good and there are a lot of good prospects left.


Last edited by nameless1: 12-17-2012 at 06:15 PM.
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12-17-2012, 06:14 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
I agree the statement, "Go big or go home."
Now is the perfect time to do it too, as the AL East looks weaker.
If the Jays win a title in your projected time frame, then all is well.
I also agree prospects are prospects, and they could flame out very easily.

I just think it is an overpayment for Dickey.
3 very good prospects for a 38 years old who certainly comes with risks.
He needs a minimal of 2 good seasons to call this a success.

At least the Jays system is still good.
Might be an overpayment for Dickey and it could backfire but it's not too often that Cy Young starters on decent contracts become available, I'm just thankful that he's ours rather than with the Yankees or Sox.

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12-17-2012, 06:24 PM
  #111
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Might be an overpayment for Dickey and it could backfire but it's not too often that Cy Young starters on decent contracts become available, I'm just thankful that he's ours rather than with the Yankees or Sox.
To be honest with you, I highly doubt the Mets will do any trades with the Yankees, who is their biggest rival in both performance and attendance, and especially one that involves a very popular player.
The Sox does not have that great of a farm system now, and certainly don't have the pieces for Dickey.

From what I heard, there were only 5 or 6 teams who are interested, and other than the Blue Jays, only the Rangers are willing to give more than 1 good prospect for Dickey.
What the Rangers offered, however, were just not quite what the Mets were looking for.

My information might not be correct, but it seems like teams are weary of Dickey.
I think the Mets made out extremely well, and only time will tell if the trade is worthwhile.

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12-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
If the Blue Jays win a world series in the next 4 years then I don't care if D'Arnaud and Syndergaard become Buster Posey and Justin Verlander.

At this point in time, they are 'prospects', albeit excellent ones. It doesn't take much to look at back at former MLB top prospects and see them out side the game of baseball a half dozen years later.

It sucks to give up the prospects, but this team currently HAD to go for it, there was no point in half assing it. Go big or go home.
This ^

The Blue Jays have been building through the system for the past 17 years, look what that has done for them. The Blue Jays need to get butts back in the seats now, and with the AL East in a weakened state, this is the perfect time to load up. It's time to build a winning environment and make Toronto a desirable destination for MLB's top free agents.

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12-17-2012, 07:18 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMicrowave View Post
And contract extension is done!

Dickey
Morrow
Buehrle
Johnson
Romero

Morrow is the only one who hasn't been an all-star in that rotation. I can now safely say **** hockey, it's baseball time.
As much as a Sox fan I am, it's also a good time to follow the Jays. One of the teams I've always rooted for when they aren't playing the Sox. Can't wait to see how they look in April.

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12-17-2012, 07:25 PM
  #114
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Dickey
Johnson
Morrow
Buehrle
Romero

That should be the order, and Romero to the bullpen in October/November...

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12-17-2012, 08:24 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Dickey
Johnson
Morrow
Buehrle
Romero

That should be the order, and Romero to the bullpen in October/November...
Unless Romero has a bounceback season now that all the pressure of being the #1 guy is off his chest, I could see Morrow also go to the bullpen come October if Romero has a good year.

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12-17-2012, 10:44 PM
  #116
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Jays see that the Sox and Yanks are trending downward and it's their time to shine and make a splash. Price may have been a bit steep for Dickey, but as mentioned, having a Cy Young winner is never bad.

Jays look scary, and I can't wait until the season starts.

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12-17-2012, 11:23 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
I don't like the price though.
Travis d'Arnaud is the best catching prospect in baseball and very, very close to MLB ready.
He has a great bat, and is better than J.P. Arencibia in all aspects.

Then there is Noah Syndergaard.
He was part of the Lansing 3, along with Aaron Sanchez and Justin Nicolino, and was the best of the 3.
He has 3 plus pitches, at only 20 years old, and I see a long future for him.
The only saving grace is that Sanchez has better stuff, and is likely to be better than Syndergaard in the future.

I like Dickey, and he is a bargain at 5 million next year, but the man is 38 years old.
The age alone scares me.
They say knuckleballers last a long time, and he does not have that much pitching mileage on him.
Plus, there is no need to worry about a Tommy John surgery, quite simply because he does not have a ulnar collateral ligament in his throwing elbow, which is what the surgery fixes.
Still, one never knows with injuries, which becomes harder to heal as one gets older. More importantly, no one knows how long he can keep up his elite stats, especially in the AL East.
He has historically been lit there.
Even though he was great against them last year, it was only for 3 games, which could indicate an aberration rather than a trend.

Sure, he has a Cy Young, and he is a terrific person, but there are certainly enough risks to him.
I always thought that they don't need to put in 2 terrific prospects to get him.
That's a vast overpayment in my books.
Hopefully he is great for the Jays during the duration of the contract, because even at 25 million for 14-15, if he has anymore near the season he had this year, he is worth every penny.

Edit:
Now they just added Wuilmer Becerra.
The guy was a top international Latin America amateur signing 2 years ago.
That's just way too much to pay for Dickey.
I really, really hope he has elite seasons for the next 3 seasons.

On the bright side, the Jays farm is still pretty good.
There are some very good prospects left, which includes Sanchez, Osuna, who a lot of people are excited about, as he is only 17 and he already has very good stuff, Stroman, D. J. Davis, Nolin and Smoral.
It is definitely still top 10 to borderline top 10.
That just shows you how deep it is.
you have to pay to get elite pitching, and they only gave up prospects, hardly a vast over payment... wouldnt surprise me if one of them were complete busts. remember Kyle Drabek the "can;t miss prospect"? yeah... give me the cy young winner every time.

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12-18-2012, 05:53 AM
  #118
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you have to pay to get elite pitching, and they only gave up prospects, hardly a vast over payment... wouldnt surprise me if one of them were complete busts. remember Kyle Drabek the "can;t miss prospect"? yeah... give me the cy young winner every time.
The problem is Dickey has quite a bit of question marks.
Is the knuckleball still going to be effective?
Is his age going to be a factor?
Would the lack of a UCL cause arm troubles down the line?
Can he keep up his elite stats, especially in the AL East, with so many good teams?
These are all question that need to be asked.

I agree that prospects flame out, but every scout loves d'Arnaud and Syndergaard.
Furthermore, every publication also rate them highly.
I might be biased, since I am a Jays fan, but I also love those 2.

I am not the only one that think it is a vast overpayment.
Many rival GMs and people in the game have the same opinion.
1 guy even said that the Blue Jays got schooled.
No matter how you look at it, it is an overpayment.

Still, even though I don't like the price, I understand why the Blue Jays want to do it, and Dickey does make the rotation so much better.
If they win a World Series and Dickey pitches well, then it is all worth it, even if they players they gave up become superstars.

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12-18-2012, 11:22 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
you have to pay to get elite pitching, and they only gave up prospects, hardly a vast over payment... wouldnt surprise me if one of them were complete busts. remember Kyle Drabek the "can;t miss prospect"? yeah... give me the cy young winner every time.
Didn't Esteban Loaiza win the Cy Young one year?

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12-18-2012, 12:35 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by nameless1 View Post
I agree the statement, "Go big or go home."
Now is the perfect time to do it too, as the AL East looks weaker.
I also agree prospects are prospects, and they could flame out very easily.

I just think it is an overpayment for Dickey.
3 very good prospects for a 38 years old who certainly comes with risks.
I think he needs at least 2 elite seasons before I can call this trade worthwhile.
If he sucked and the prospects become the next stars of tomorrow, then this trade is very, very hard to stomach, even if the Jays win a title during that time.

At least the Jays system is still good and there are a lot of good prospects left.
This isn't poetry. You don't need a line break every sentence. Keep it in on paragraph so your posts aren't keeping me from scrolling down forever...you think you can help me out here bud?

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12-18-2012, 02:05 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by The Kassian Train View Post
This isn't poetry. You don't need a line break every sentence. Keep it in on paragraph so your posts aren't keeping me from scrolling down forever...you think you can help me out here bud?


It's true. Sorry, nameless1, but I've been tempted many, many times to say this to you. Why do you break up every single line that you write?

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12-18-2012, 02:19 PM
  #122
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It's true. Sorry, nameless1, but I've been tempted many, many times to say this to you. Why do you break up every single line that you write?
Just
Because
Dude.

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12-18-2012, 03:02 PM
  #123
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Didn't Esteban Loaiza win the Cy Young one year?
lol almost but he finished 2nd behind doc. his two years leading up to the fluke year he had a 5+ era..

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12-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  #124
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lol almost but he finished 2nd behind doc. his two years leading up to the fluke year he had a 5+ era..
Dickey's last stint in the AL he had an era of 4.62, and his last stint as a starter in the AL he had an era above 5. Admittedly I don't know enough about Dickey's career progression to really say for certain that he will be a flop, but I'm not as confident as I would be if we re-acquired Halladay or another long-time established ace. Still though, even if he regresses to a 3.50era 1.20whip 150k pitcher he is still a solid number 2/3 pitcher and a major major upgrade on what we had last season.

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12-18-2012, 04:45 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Dickey's last stint in the AL he had an era of 4.62, and his last stint as a starter in the AL he had an era above 5. Admittedly I don't know enough about Dickey's career progression to really say for certain that he will be a flop, but I'm not as confident as I would be if we re-acquired Halladay or another long-time established ace. Still though, even if he regresses to a 3.50era 1.20whip 150k pitcher he is still a solid number 2/3 pitcher and a major major upgrade on what we had last season.
Dickey's last stint in the AL was as a conventional pitcher, with below average velocity.

All we know is that since becoming a knuckleballer, he is 7-0 against the american league. Not much to go on, but like you said, even if his play drops he's still a better option than Carlos Villaneuva and Aaron Laffey.

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