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Off-season Madness the 3rd: Jeffrey Loria taketh and Jeffrey Loria giveth away

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11-14-2012, 08:03 AM
  #376
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Just rolling through the thread from when I signed off last night to this morning. I see a lot of "we's" out of people I've never seen in this thread before lol. Ah, the bandwagon; the casual fans favorite mode of transportation.

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11-14-2012, 08:05 AM
  #377
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Hey guys,

I'm pretty pumped about the Jay's this year. Assuming they can stay healthy and are able to pick up a manager that continues with the aggressive base running style, they are going to be a lot of fun to cheer for this year.

Here is how I can see the top 9 projecting:

Avg HR RBI SB
3B Lawrie .280 15 55 15
SS Reyes .290 10 55 40
CF Rasmus .245 25 75 5
RF Bautista .285 40 100 10
DH Encarnacion .275 35 100 12
C Arencibia .245 20 60 0
2B Bonifacio .275 2 40 35
1B Lind .250 15 50 0
RF Davis .250 10 40 40

172 575 157

Add to that the bench players (Buck, Izturis, Cooper, Sierra) and you have some serious offensive punch. A very good team batting average, lots of speed for stolen bases adds up to a lot of RBIs!

The starting pitching (Morrow, Buerhle, Johnson, Romero, Happ) has the potential to be epic if they can stay healthy. My biggest worry there is that Romero will have a repeat of last year in which case we would want to trade him off right away and not let him drag the team down. Hopefully he can get back to his form of two years ago.

Anyhow, it's a good day to be a Jay's fan!

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11-14-2012, 08:06 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
But CV wasn't that good last season, in fact, he was pretty average. Just looking at the basic numbers, the league average ERA was 4.01, CV put up a 4.16. The average WHIP was 1.31, CV had a 1.27. He posted a 1.2 WAR which is average. In fact, he's actually a better reliever than he is a starter and the numbers show this.
Ill take an "average" pitcher for a #5... That means our worst pitcher is average.

In all likelihood though, theyll just go with Happ. Too bad for Marcum, I was kinda hoping we'd sign him, doesnt look as likely now.

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11-14-2012, 08:12 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Just rolling through the thread from when I signed off last night to this morning. I see a lot of "we's" out of people I've never seen in this thread before lol. Ah, the bandwagon; the casual fans favorite mode of transportation.
Hmm so I guess you're a bigger fan because you post in here more than others? this is a hockey site, I'm surprised there's any baseball threads at all, actually.

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Ill take an "average" pitcher for a #5... That means our worst pitcher is average.

In all likelihood though, theyll just go with Happ. Too bad for Marcum, I was kinda hoping we'd sign him, doesnt look as likely now.
He'd be a number 5 until someone goes down, which is bound to happen. You can never have enough pitching, that old cliche always rings true. My problem with CV isn't that he's average, it's that he's average at best and expects the salary of an above average starter. He's barely made any starts over his career and even then, he's better as a long man out of the pen then he ever has as a starter. You simply don't give guys big contracts to start with 30 career starts under their belts. He'll get paid, just not by us. As far as Marcum goes, there's been rumblings that he may accept a shorter term deal which is ideal for us meaning I wouldn't rule him out just yet. That final rotation arm will really put a stamp on this team.

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11-14-2012, 08:12 AM
  #380
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I don't believe this team is yet a contender, still need another good player. AA is not done, there are still bodies to be moved.

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11-14-2012, 08:18 AM
  #381
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I think your analogy undervalues the talent the Jays gave up. Here is my assessment of the Equivalent offer from the Leafs (lol).

Leafs trade

Nikolai Kulemin - equivalent to Escobar without the attitude problem
Dave Steckel - equivalent to Jeff Mathis
Matt Finn - equivalent to Justin Nicolino
Joe Colborne - equivalent to Jake Marisnick
Cody Franson - equivalent to Henderson Alvarez
Nazem Kadri - equivalent to Adeiny Hechavarria

in return, they receive

Jamie Benn (equivalent to Johnson)
Loui Eriksson (equivalent to Reyes)
Brendan Morrow (equivalent to Buehrle)
Stephane Robidas (equivalent to John Buck)
Tom Wandell (equivalent to Emilio Bonifascio)
Agree with all of those but I think Bonifascio is an unsung piece of this trade, he replaces Aviles' versatility but adds more youth and more speed, could even be a leadoff guy if injuries come up again. The only problem with him is his defence which really hurts his WAR. I'd platoon him with Davis in LF.

That said, I think we still need a legit power bat. I think positionally we're sound with the new recruits, but I don't think Buck brings enough to DH (I like EE at 1B). But that only happens if Lind and/or JPA are shipped out.

These recruits open up many new avenues for trades, as JPA and others are much more easily moveable for possibly a cheapish 4/5 starter.

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11-14-2012, 08:19 AM
  #382
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I don't believe this team is yet a contender, still need another good player. AA is not done, there are still bodies to be moved.
This.

But, the BJs have returned to relevance in a big way. Puts a ton of pressure on EVERYONE in the East.

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11-14-2012, 08:20 AM
  #383
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Hmm so I guess you're a bigger fan because you post in here more than others? this is a hockey site, I'm surprised there's any baseball threads at all, actually.
Lol bigger fan? Nah bruh.

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11-14-2012, 08:21 AM
  #384
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Is Bonifacio getting payed 11.mil 18mil and 18mill the 3rd year? That's not good at all And he should be moved that's way 2 much money for a player not starting. If we need a Player for 2nd base that bad we can bring back Marco at way less.

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11-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  #385
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I don't believe this team is yet a contender, still need another good player. AA is not done, there are still bodies to be moved.
Absolutely. Wouldn't be surprised to see Buck and Arencibia traded to fill other needs.

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11-14-2012, 08:22 AM
  #386
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Ill take an "average" pitcher for a #5... That means our worst pitcher is average.

In all likelihood though, theyll just go with Happ. Too bad for Marcum, I was kinda hoping we'd sign him, doesnt look as likely now.
It was never likely: he apparently has off-field issues that management was not impressed by (according to Blair and Hayhurst). They might still go and sign a swing man, but at this point they're not going to give anybody #3 dollars, which Marcum could reasonably expect.

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11-14-2012, 08:23 AM
  #387
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Is Bonifacio getting payed 11.mil 18mil and 18mill the 3rd year? That's not good at all And he should be moved that's way 2 much money for a player not starting. If we need a Player for 2nd base that bad we can bring back Marco at way less.
2013 Contract Status: 1st-Year Arb Eligible, 1 yr/$2.2M (12) (details)[*]
Service Time (01/2012): 3.066, Arb Eligible: 2013, Free Agent: 2015[*],

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...onifem01.shtml

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11-14-2012, 08:24 AM
  #388
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Lol bigger fan? Nah bruh.
It's pretty hard to be a bandwagon fan of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in twenty years, bruh.

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11-14-2012, 08:24 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by AndMat View Post
Is Bonifacio getting payed 11.mil 18mil and 18mill the 3rd year? That's not good at all And he should be moved that's way 2 much money for a player not starting. If we need a Player for 2nd base that bad we can bring back Marco at way less.
No. He was at $2.2 in 2012, and is arb eligible this winter. If you meant Reyes, he's at 10, 16, 22, 22, 22 + option.

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11-14-2012, 08:25 AM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Just rolling through the thread from when I signed off last night to this morning. I see a lot of "we's" out of people I've never seen in this thread before lol. Ah, the bandwagon; the casual fans favorite mode of transportation.
You and the others in the hardcore herd need to relax. Just because people actually have something to be excited about as fans of teams in this city and are showing excitement doesn't mean they should be belittled by idiotic comments like this and what Woodman19 has said. You guys are no more entitled to this thread than anyone else, get off your high horses.

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11-14-2012, 08:25 AM
  #391
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It's pretty hard to be a bandwagon fan of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in twenty years, bruh.
Lol and yet, here they are.

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11-14-2012, 08:27 AM
  #392
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In place of who though? Until he proves otherwise, Loup deserves a spot, and I'm not sure they'd dump Lincoln so easily after acquiring him last year.
Loup has options and if Oliver is coming back, he gets pushed out. Its unfair because he deserves a spot but that happens to guys with options. He'll come up at some point in the year anyways because injuries will happen.

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No, you dump Cecil whether it be through trade or releasing him. He is that bad and we have too many quality pen arms to give him a spot simply because he cannot be sent back down. AA didn't grab all these arms to only see Cecil be used.
Cecil isn't as about as you think. He is a terrible starter but he can get lefties out and Cecil could do well in that role. His stuff also went up as a reliever (throwing more 91-93 as a reliever). Held lefties to a .214/.281/.321/.603 line last year (righties went all EE on him though). Held lefties to .186/.282/.240/.522 in 2011. Held lefites to .224/.255 /.342/.597 line in 2010. Lefties only hit him well when he first came up in 2009 over a small sample size.

Like I said, he can be pretty good out of the pen getting lefties out. He could our Brian Matusz out of the pen.

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11-14-2012, 08:30 AM
  #393
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My bad..... Lol

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11-14-2012, 08:31 AM
  #394
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Starting to feel bad for Arencibia. Every trade deadline and offseason, his name, without fail, is always the name that comes up to be traded

Sounds like the Jays had a great day yesterday. Now let's just wait on it all to be deemed official. I saw tweets from Bautista, Romero and Janssen and I thought it was interesting that all of them were so caught up in the excitement of what the Jays acquired, they didn't do the normal 'sad to see him go' but instead did the 'I'm excited, let's it get it going'.

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11-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #395
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Lol and yet, here they are.
Uh huh, I post on a baseball site, been a member since 2006, guess I'm a bigger fan and you're a bandwagoner amIright? Your condescending tone is pretty funny though.

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11-14-2012, 08:32 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Nasty Nazem View Post
Loup has options and if Oliver is coming back, he gets pushed out. Its unfair because he deserves a spot but that happens to guys with options. He'll come up at some point in the year anyways because injuries will happen.



Cecil isn't as about as you think. He is a terrible starter but he can get lefties out and Cecil could do well in that role. His stuff also went up as a reliever (throwing more 91-93 as a reliever). Held lefties to a .214/.281/.321/.603 line last year (righties went all EE on him though). Held lefties to .186/.282/.240/.522 in 2011. Held lefites to .224/.255 /.342/.597 line in 2010. Lefties only hit him well when he first came up in 2009 over a small sample size.

Like I said, he can be pretty good out of the pen getting lefties out. He could our Brian Matusz out of the pen.
You're absolutely correct about Loup. He was very good last year, but I agree that he'll start the year in Buffalo. Hopefully, he forces his way back onto the roster. Same for Cecil. He functions best as a Loogy, and can also be a good long reliever. People forget he was a very good closer in college, so coming out of the pen is not foreign to him. He's got value.

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11-14-2012, 08:35 AM
  #397
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Loup has options and if Oliver is coming back, he gets pushed out. Its unfair because he deserves a spot but that happens to guys with options. He'll come up at some point in the year anyways because injuries will happen.



Cecil isn't as about as you think. He is a terrible starter but he can get lefties out and Cecil could do well in that role. His stuff also went up as a reliever (throwing more 91-93 as a reliever). Held lefties to a .214/.281/.321/.603 line last year (righties went all EE on him though). Held lefties to .186/.282/.240/.522 in 2011. Held lefites to .224/.255 /.342/.597 line in 2010. Lefties only hit him well when he first came up in 2009 over a small sample size.

Like I said, he can be pretty good out of the pen getting lefties out. He could our Brian Matusz out of the pen.
I think given all of the options, I'd find it pretty hard to guarantee Cecil a roster spot. There are simply too many good pen options and I still question his velocity. I haven't looked at the graphs but last I checked he could crack 90 but was in the 80's most of the time. Without control, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I'd deal Cecil given the chance rather than rolling the dice on him. He's a very replaceable player.

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11-14-2012, 08:42 AM
  #398
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Feel it John Farrell

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11-14-2012, 08:47 AM
  #399
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Feel it John Farrell
Cut him some slack, he's on suicide watch

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11-14-2012, 08:48 AM
  #400
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I think given all of the options, I'd find it pretty hard to guarantee Cecil a roster spot. There are simply too many good pen options and I still question his velocity. I haven't looked at the graphs but last I checked he could crack 90 but was in the 80's most of the time. Without control, that's a disaster waiting to happen. I'd deal Cecil given the chance rather than rolling the dice on him. He's a very replaceable player.
Disagree. There is value in him. I mean Loup is only going to be on the roster as a LOOGY (righties will eventually figure him out) and if you can get Cecil in that same role and he can do well, why get rid of him? At worst, you get a mop up man.

He could barely hit 90 as a starter but sat 91-93 as a reliever. Jays bullpen should be good enough that he is the 6-7th best option in the pen which is perfectly fine. Unless Oliver retires, Loup is most likely the man that gets pushed out.

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