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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #301
Gil Gunderson
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Originally Posted by peon View Post
RT watermark, all the credibility one needs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20340810

Although I assume you were being sarcastic.

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11-16-2012, 04:21 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Disagree with 67 as the Israeli's started that

Also the Israeli's + British/French initiated hostilites in 1956 when they invaded Egypt ,, But the pro-Israel side pretends that never happened

Good thing the US had a true great president in office at time who was willing to stand up against the Israeli/French/British invasion

And the Early 80's invasion of Lebanon was easily the most disurptive and devastating war between Israeli/Arabs and that was a war that Israel started and ended up pulling back in defeat (Also to universal scorn as they allowed genocide to happen before there eyes in refugee camps when the allies they armed went and slaughtered so many men/women/children)

And the 2006 war in Lebanon was overreaction on Israel's part that further disrupted progress in Lebanon
Technically not! The Egyptians had blockaded the Israeli port of Eilat by closing the Strait of Tiran in the Gulf of Aqaba preventing Israeli oil imports, ironically from Iran. That is an act of war under International Law, not that international law seems to matter too much.

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11-16-2012, 04:25 PM
  #303
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http://rememberthesechildren.org/remember2012.html

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11-16-2012, 04:29 PM
  #304
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I remember when Obama was criticized for taking such a hard stance against Israel early in his term. And I think I understand why. He knew that the PM for Israel was a radical. Almost as radical as the president of Iran. And for stability in the Middle East you can't have radical governments.

Israel has turned the sympathy they garnered after World War II into this obsessive guilt trip sort of thing that is not only annoying but it's time to move on. The Jews weren't the only major group persecuted during World War II by the Nazis and yes, they lost a significant portion of their people but so did the Chinese, Russians, and Koreans. And yet they have moved on and forged ahead. The Holocaust wasn't simply about the Jews but all undesirable races like the Gypsies, the Slavs.

The United States should and would be better off if they did sever all ties with Israel. You know. 60 years is enough. And a lot of these recent attacks can be blamed on Israel. They have no intention of making peace. They haven't shown it in recent years.
To be fair, neither have the Palestinians. The fact is, both sides distrust each other so much that the war just keeps on going, revenge attack after revenge attack. The only way peace will ever be achieved is if one side is willing to not retaliate if their citizens are killed, and instead push for a negotiated agreement. And neither side is willing to do that.

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11-16-2012, 04:31 PM
  #305
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Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, so even though Israel may try to be careful with their strikes, civilian casualties are to be expected.

CNN speculating Israel will be moving in for a ground invasion soon, and the operation could go on for weeks.

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11-16-2012, 04:33 PM
  #306
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Obama must have given orders to not perform operation pillar of cloud until after the election. This would have certainly made things more interesting if it was going on during the elections.

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11-16-2012, 04:36 PM
  #307
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Why "partition" Palestine at all? Why divide a territory that for years has been home to multiple religious groups living side by side in relative peace and stability?

Why, if not in the pursuit of the racist goal of making the land "pure" for it's Jewish inhabitants, i.e., Zionism. Nazism and Zionism are very similar in that both espouse the idea of a pure and unadulterated homeland for the dominant race. To this day no non-Jews can own land in Israel. Colonization is colonization, be it Palestine, South Africa, in short, any European quest for lebensraum.

Why do liberals give Israel a pass on such issues which are fundamentally anathema to the goals and ideals of humanism?
Such utter ridiculousness, it's astounding.

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11-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Jersey Fresh View Post
Such utter ridiculousness, it's astounding.
No, it's really not. Far from it, in a "history may not repeat, but it often rhymes" kind of way.

Occupations always degrade the occupiers. The IDF was the world's greatest fighting force in 1967, having simultaneously crushed the entire Arab world in less than a week. 45 years of occupation later, it's a shadow of its former self, unable to even defeat the lightly armed Hezbollah. It's all connected.

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11-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #309
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They have rocks. And anyone who has that sort of weapons is a threat for every modern army in the world.
Let's not be children about that.

Hamas owns several kinds of man-portable rockets that can strike between 20 to 60 miles, with the newer models being 20-feet tall and being able to strike targets nearly 90 miles away.

They are not guided, tho. Only point and shoot. So the Palestinians have no way of actually knowing if they will hit anything. The best they can do is target places they know there will be Israelis, and that's the cities.

Since Israel has went on a campaign to neutralize these rockets and destroy all stockpiles, Hamas are under the imperative "use it or lose it" at the moment, which is why they are unleashing their arsenal. It makes strategical sense to at least try to blood your ennemy before it neutralizes you. USA and USSR had the exact same attitude toward nuclear war.

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11-16-2012, 05:47 PM
  #310
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That is absolutely not why. Early warning sirens and bomb shelters are why.
Hi, I think you missed the portion of my post where I said "part of the reason".

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11-16-2012, 05:55 PM
  #311
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Such utter ridiculousness, it's astounding.
Yes because their are no such things as Christian Palestinians.


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11-16-2012, 05:59 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
No, it's really not. Far from it, in a "history may not repeat, but it often rhymes" kind of way.

Occupations always degrade the occupiers. The IDF was the world's greatest fighting force in 1967, having simultaneously crushed the entire Arab world in less than a week. 45 years of occupation later, it's a shadow of its former self, unable to even defeat the lightly armed Hezbollah. It's all connected.
That's not what you said in your post and not what I was referring to. Non-Jews can't own land in Israel? Jews the dominant race? Lies and absurdities.

I do think Occupation has had an impact on the Israeli psyche. More ingraining the 'us vs. them' mentality.

The bottom line is that most Israelis do not want to occupy anyone, outside of a minority of religious fanatics who hold a disproportionate influence on the government. The issue is most don't think there is a legitimate partner. The Palestinians aren't even a unified people. Half, Hamas, doesn't recognize Israel, on '67 borders or otherwise. And Fatah is so weak in the West Bank even if they came to an agreement Abbas wouldn't have the clout to implement it. Does anyone think if Israel unilaterally withdrew to '67, Hezbollah/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/any other group is just going to say "Oh, okay we'll just get rid of these rockets and guns. We don't need those anymore." Naivete if you ask me. They are allowed to masquerade as 'resistance' movements because Israel is still occupying them. Really they are opposed to any Jewish presence whatsoever. Hezbollah, for example, is really just a sectarian, proxy terrorist arm of Iran. Israel isn't occupying an inch of Lebanon. Shebaa farms is Syrian.

The sad part is I think the mid-90's peace was at least talked about with an element of hopefulness and on a track of progress. The intifada starting in 2000 and the subsequent suicide bombings and rockets pushed the Israeli electorate so far to the right that the peace process is not even an election topic, only security. Labor is hardly a political party at this point.

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11-16-2012, 06:00 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Stylizer1 View Post
Yes because their are no such things as Christian Palestinians.

What the **** are you talking about? Is that what you think I said?

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11-16-2012, 06:04 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by sjsharky View Post
Hi, I think you missed the portion of my post where I said "part of the reason".
It's not even part of the reason. If a mortar or a rocket hits you or the house you're in, you will be killed more often than not.

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11-16-2012, 06:14 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Jersey Fresh View Post
It's not even part of the reason. If a mortar or a rocket hits you or the house you're in, you will be killed more often than not.
Right.

But if they had better weapons they would be more likely to hit more houses and kill more people. I absolutely don't understand how you could say their inferior weapons is not at all a factor in the number of Israeli deaths.

It's not a major point, but you called my post absolutely wrong when it is clearly not absolutely wrong.

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11-16-2012, 06:18 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by sjsharky View Post
Right.

But if they had better weapons they would be more likely to hit more houses and kill more people. I absolutely don't understand how you could say their inferior weapons is not at all a factor in the number of Israeli deaths.

It's not a major point, but you called my post absolutely wrong when it is clearly not absolutely wrong.
Sure.

The issue is that they're not accurate, not that they're not deadly, which was the implication I took from your post. Calling them 'not huge stuff' makes it sound like people are walking away from direct hits like they're sparklers.

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11-16-2012, 06:34 PM
  #317
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You mean that any other state that would respond to rocket strikes with military force would be invaded by foreign forces? I highly doubt that.

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11-16-2012, 06:37 PM
  #318
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Israel withdrew all settlers from Gaza and a Taliban like government took over. Why should the Israeli people believe anything different would happen if they withdraw from the wb?



BTW why does Jordan not grant citizenship to their Arab brothers in refugee camps? Why do the Arab governments force the Palestinians to live like animals in camps? Israeli Arabs are treated 1000 times better than the Arab refugees in neighboring countries.

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11-16-2012, 06:41 PM
  #319
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Arafats bank accounts

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-582487.html

I think that's better than you picture of some white guy holding up a sign in perfect English.

Why don't we ask the PA how they managed the funds for wb municipalities. Probably too busy spending it on European vacations and little boys for the pederast Arafat.

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11-16-2012, 07:53 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Johnnywhite View Post
Technically not! The Egyptians had blockaded the Israeli port of Eilat by closing the Strait of Tiran in the Gulf of Aqaba preventing Israeli oil imports, ironically from Iran. That is an act of war under International Law, not that international law seems to matter too much.
So US blockade of Cuba is act of war. Cubans have right to attack America if they want right?

Egyptians had all right to close the Strait of Tiran... Israeli's could have still imported thru longer route (Into Med thru Gibraltor)

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11-16-2012, 07:55 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by PSUCapsFan View Post
Israel withdrew all settlers from Gaza and a Taliban like government took over. Why should the Israeli people believe anything different would happen if they withdraw from the wb?



BTW why does Jordan not grant citizenship to their Arab brothers in refugee camps? Why do the Arab governments force the Palestinians to live like animals in camps? Israeli Arabs are treated 1000 times better than the Arab refugees in neighboring countries.
Hamas is hardly anything like Taliban

Netanyahu is closer to Taliban in his actions then anyone in Gaza...

And why does Arab world treatment of Palestinians have anything to do with the horrific treatment the Israeli inflict on them?

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11-16-2012, 08:01 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Arkansas Shark View Post


Considering BBC uses loop when playing images from Gaza (Not live) there is no truth to which screen shot is 1st taken

Man could have fainted (It has happened) to news someone he is looking for is dead

And this is clearly staged right


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11-16-2012, 08:33 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hamas is hardly anything like Taliban

Netanyahu is closer to Taliban in his actions then anyone in Gaza...

And why does Arab world treatment of Palestinians have anything to do with the horrific treatment the Israeli inflict on them?
Article 8 of Hamas Charter

The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief."

Article 12

affirms that "Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed" .

Article 13

There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer

Source= Wikipedia and links therein.

Hamas treatment of homosexuals

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/...-secular-west/

Yet somehow to you Netanyahu is more similar to the Taliban. What world do you live in?

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11-16-2012, 08:43 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
And why does Arab world treatment of Palestinians have anything to do with the horrific treatment the Israeli inflict on them?
Because it is hypocritical to focus in how Israel tries to deal with the issue and completely ignore Palestinian treatment in other Muslim countries. The UN is stocked with Muslim member states who are all to eager to pass resolution after resolution against Israel yet never take a look at their own members when it comes to human rights violations.

In the United nations you have one Jewish state representing 6 million Jewish people vs multitudes of Islamic nations representing hundreds of millions of Muslims.

The hypocrites in the UN hold Israel to a higher standard when it comes to human rights. Some of the nations passing resolutions against Israel for human rights violations are 100x worse to their own populations than the Israelis are to the Palestinians!

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Old
11-16-2012, 09:11 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hamas is hardly anything like Taliban

Netanyahu is closer to Taliban in his actions then anyone in Gaza...

And why does Arab world treatment of Palestinians have anything to do with the horrific treatment the Israeli inflict on them?
How is it not relevant? These arab states continously rail against Israel for their treatment of their Palestinian "brothers", meanwhile they are denied citizenship, cannot own land, attend university, or become doctors, lawyers, and a multitude of other professions. Not to mention the squalid refugee camps they are herded into. Israeli Arabs can do all of the above. Granted, there are issues about the allocation of government funds for many arab communities that successive Israeli governments have failed to address, but their standard of living is astronomically better and most want to remain in Israel even after a Palestinian state is established.

I don't see you calling those arab states Nazis. They don't give two ***** about the Palestinians.

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