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Israel-Gaza conflict huge escalation

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:16 AM
  #726
guest1467
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Israel did end the occupation of Gaza in 2005...
I really don't think you can call continual and extensive blockading of an area 'ending occupation.'

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11-21-2012, 12:17 AM
  #727
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Jesus Christ... go inform yourself... I'm not going to sit here and feed you every tid bit of detail about the conflict.

Yes, it's complex, yes both sides share some of the blame for the wider conflict. But it's quite clear which side is far more humanitarian, while the other resorts to fear mongering, racism and terrorism. Especially in these recent battles.

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11-21-2012, 12:17 AM
  #728
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
People still voted. He just destroyed all opposition.

Much like Hamas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
Um what are you taking about? Fatah started that conflict, not Hamas.

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11-21-2012, 12:18 AM
  #729
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Jesus Christ... go inform yourself... I'm not going to sit here and feed you every tid bit of detail about the conflict.

Yes, it's complex, yes both sides share some of the blame for the wider conflict. But it's quite clear which side is far more humanitarian, while the other resorts to fear mongering, racism and terrorism. Especially in these recent battles.
And yet the more "humanitarian" side tends to kill far more civilians than the "terrorists".

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11-21-2012, 12:19 AM
  #730
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
But they didn't end the siege. And what about the west bank?
Notice how they ended the blockading at the West Bank, but not Gaza? Ever think it has something to do with the fact that the West Bank does not launch rockets at Israel daily, while Gaza does?

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11-21-2012, 12:20 AM
  #731
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Notice how they ended the blockading at the West Bank, but not Gaza? Ever think it has something to do with the fact that the West Bank does not launch rockets at Israel daily, while Gaza does?
So why do they continue to build illegal settlements there?

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11-21-2012, 12:20 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
But they didn't end the siege. And what about the west bank?
Which is an excellent question.

Occupy west bank = no missiles

End occupation in gaza = missiles

Which right or wrong only reinforces the belief of some Israelis that occupation and military intervention is needed to protect itself.

So forever the dance continues.

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11-21-2012, 12:26 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Notice how they ended the blockading at the West Bank, but not Gaza? Ever think it has something to do with the fact that the West Bank does not launch rockets at Israel daily, while Gaza does?
Which sends the message that to avoid being occupied, use rockets.

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11-21-2012, 12:28 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
And yet the more "humanitarian" side tends to kill far more civilians than the "terrorists".
Bingo.

You proved my point.

People like you only support Hamas because they are the "underdog", and don't have the power that Israel does. It doesn't change the fact that Israel only targets thing of military value, while Hamas targets civilians. But people like you only see the David-vs-Goliath situation, lump Palestinians and the Hamas terrorists together and cheer for the underdog like its a ****ing hollywood sports movie. This is real life with real casualties, not a movie for your ****ing enjoyment. The more people like you enable these terrorists to commit these acts, the more the Palestinian people will suffer.

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11-21-2012, 12:28 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
And yet the more "humanitarian" side tends to kill far more civilians than the "terrorists".
Which is a combination of weapons efficiency (although this has now changed with longer range Fajer 5) and military target emplacements.

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11-21-2012, 12:31 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Bingo.

You proved my point.

People like you only support Hamas because they are the "underdog", and don't have the power that Israel does. It doesn't change the fact that Israel only targets thing of military value, while Hamas targets civilians. But people like you only see the David-vs-Goliath situation, lump Palestinians and the Hamas terrorists together and cheer for the underdog like its a ****ing hollywood sports movie. This is real life with real casualties, not a movie for your ****ing enjoyment. The more people like you enable these terrorists to commit these acts, the more the Palestinian people will suffer.
How many people here are supporting Hamas? Some people are pro-Palestine because it's clear who the oppressed people are in this conflict.

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11-21-2012, 12:37 AM
  #737
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How many people here are supporting Hamas? Some people are pro-Palestine because it's clear who the oppressed people are in this conflict.
You are absolutely correct. I totally agree with you, the Palestinians are the ones suffering in this conflict... and the hands of Hamas, not Israel.

Besides the "they took our land 64 years ago" argument (which can be applied to dozens of countries, even in Europe, in the same time frame), every Israeli action against Gaza has been in reaction to Hamas aggression.

I am both pro-Palestine and pro-Israeli. I even said earlier in the thread that I support a two-state solution. But terrorist organization like Hamas make things worse.

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11-21-2012, 12:39 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Bingo.

You proved my point.

People like you only support Hamas because they are the "underdog", and don't have the power that Israel does. It doesn't change the fact that Israel only targets thing of military value, while Hamas targets civilians. But people like you only see the David-vs-Goliath situation, lump Palestinians and the Hamas terrorists together and cheer for the underdog like its a ****ing hollywood sports movie. This is real life with real casualties, not a movie for your ****ing enjoyment. The more people like you enable these terrorists to commit these acts, the more the Palestinian people will suffer.
The only people getting enjoyment out of killing are the trigger happy Israelis

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/

. I don't side with Palestinians because they are underdogs. I side with them because every country and people have the right to defend themselves from occupiers and oppressors. And that's exactly what Israel is.

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11-21-2012, 12:45 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
The only people getting enjoyment out of killing are the trigger happy Israelis

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-hamas-war-103/

. I don't side with Palestinians because they are underdogs. I side with them because every country and people have the right to defend themselves from occupiers and oppressors. And that's exactly what Israel is.
Does Israel also get to "defend" itself against its oppressor?

The longer this remains a "moral" (not to mention religion being a very strong "moral" code) argument about whos oppressed and who isnt the longer the dance will continue.

Both sides claim the moral high ground and as such it continues.

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11-21-2012, 12:51 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
You are absolutely correct. I totally agree with you, the Palestinians are the ones suffering in this conflict... and the hands of Hamas, not Israel.

Besides the "they took our land 64 years ago" argument (which can be applied to dozens of countries, even in Europe, in the same time frame), every Israeli action against Gaza has been in reaction to Hamas aggression.

I am both pro-Palestine and pro-Israeli. I even said earlier in the thread that I support a two-state solution. But terrorist organization like Hamas make things worse.
So Israel takes no responsibility when they murder civilians? It's all Hamas' fault, despite plenty of IDF soldiers admitting they targeted civilians and abused children?

Is it Hamas' fault when Palestinians are kicked out of their homes in West Bank?

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11-21-2012, 12:56 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by Gil Gunderson View Post
So Israel takes no responsibility when they murder civilians? It's all Hamas' fault, despite plenty of IDF soldiers admitting they targeted civilians and abused children?

Is it Hamas' fault when Palestinians are kicked out of their homes in West Bank?
lolwut?

source?

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11-21-2012, 01:23 AM
  #742
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
lolwut?

source?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29782266.../#.UKxvKIYQDu4
http://www.channel4.com/news/israeli...o-cleanse-gaza
http://www.sott.net/article/250345-I...lestinian-kids
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...-2009-1.292679
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226457685823
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/vide...stinians-video


Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 11-21-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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11-21-2012, 01:42 AM
  #744
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Four minors reported being sexually assaulted, and 12 said they were threatened with sexual assault.
Four? That's it? I mean, its obviously terrible, but only four probably has to be a record low for a war.

You made it sound like it's a widespread systemic issue.

In war, civilians die, sometimes soldiers act poorly, it happens in all wars. I'm sure you can come up with similar accounts from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. What is important is that these actions are reported and dealt with accordingly, which is what happened. Nothing you posted is out of the ordinary. Moral of the story = war sucks.

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11-21-2012, 01:49 AM
  #745
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Originally Posted by swiftwin View Post
Four? That's it? I mean, its obviously terrible, but only four probably has to be a record low for a war.

You made it sound like it's a widespread systemic issue.

In war, civilians die, sometimes soldiers act poorly, it happens in all wars. I'm sure you can come up with similar accounts from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. What is important is that these actions are reported and dealt with accordingly, which is what happened. Nothing you posted is out of the ordinary. Moral of the story = war sucks.
Well it happens regularly, and it's not just during war. Also, what do you mean by "You made it sound like it's a widespread systemic issue."? I said plenty of soldiers admit it and I just posted articles with IDF soldiers saying it happens regularly.

It's also not just "soldiers acting poorly" when they bomb civilian infrastructure.


Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 11-21-2012 at 03:22 AM.
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11-21-2012, 04:31 AM
  #746
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Hamas executes six suspected collaborators with Israel; body dragged through street
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-wo...l-body-dragged

Hamas cracking under pressure, doing ridiculous things. No sympathy for them now. I say they kick this off and get it over with.

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11-21-2012, 04:59 AM
  #747
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Originally Posted by nikhilmtl View Post
So if someone came to your house and kicked you ut claiming their ancestors lived there 2000 years ago, you'd be cool with it? Give me a ****ing break.
One of the things, I think Americans get a bit uncomfortable with is this is the exact situation that founded America in the first place.

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11-21-2012, 05:04 AM
  #748
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One of the things, I think Americans get a bit uncomfortable with is this is the exact situation that founded America in the first place.
"To the victor go the spoils"

Just the nature of things.

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11-21-2012, 05:11 AM
  #749
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"To the victor go the spoils"

Just the nature of things.
Doesn't make it right. Situations a bit different but still...

America should throw up their hands and tell Israel to go screw themselves along with the Palestinians. No more arm sales, no more aide for both countries.

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11-21-2012, 05:31 AM
  #750
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Bingo.

You proved my point.

People like you only support Hamas because they are the "underdog", and don't have the power that Israel does. It doesn't change the fact that Israel only targets thing of military value, while Hamas targets civilians. But people like you only see the David-vs-Goliath situation, lump Palestinians and the Hamas terrorists together and cheer for the underdog like its a ****ing hollywood sports movie. This is real life with real casualties, not a movie for your ****ing enjoyment. The more people like you enable these terrorists to commit these acts, the more the Palestinian people will suffer.
I really would like to know how Hamas has the alternative to shooting at military targets. How are they going to accomplish that?

When the Arabs fought properly (i.e. No terrorist tactics) the west systematically forced them to commit to ceasefire that gave the upper hand to Israel. Nobody ever forced a ceasefire on Israel.

Therefore, there is little incentive for the Arab to play fair, since it's been proven that the only outcome the West will tolerate is Israeli victory.

Therefore, the only thing left for Palestinians is underhanded tactic, and not giving up. They don't want their people to roll over and die.

Plus, there are quite a number of Non-Hamas splinter Militant jihadist groups who act on their own. There numbers grow with every deaths in Gaza, and it's their agenda to provoke Israel into more violence and group intervention.

Hamas tries desperately to keep control of these groups, which often is only done through hard rhetoric (think of Republican candidates trying to rally the Tea Party to his cause while trying to win the election after)

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