Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
There is no Zionist hate, this is a common sense issue. One side is clearly the oppressor, the other side is an occupied 2nd/3rd world nation. One side continues to expand their territory and the other side commits FEEBLE attempts of resistance. End the occupation physically and economically THEN address what problems of resistance may be left, if any.
Who is to blame for the Israeli bias in the media?
There is no Zionist hate, this is a common sense issue. One side is clearly the oppressor, the other side is an occupied 2nd/3rd world nation. One side continues to expand their territory and the other side commits FEEBLE attempts of resistance. End the occupation physically and economically THEN address what problems of resistance may be left, if any.
Feeble?
They frequently fire rockets at Israel which inflict casualties, as well as employ suicide bombers. Feeble is hardly the word I would use to describe Hamas, an organization intent on destroying Israel.
Well, you're that voter base which has been lead to believe that the Zionists are innocent protectors of their great culture.
The rest of the world lives in reality,...
Huge and false assumption on your part.
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Stop living in a fantasy world where the Hamas, or any Palestinian group, have any chancy whatsoever at destroying, invading, or inflicting major harm on Israel.
Exactly What does this mean? They dont have the same military toys as Israel? Didnt the COMBINED ARAB LEAGUE try to wipe out Israel in 1948. Lets take inventory on all the rocket attacks and bomb vests against civilian targets and whatever they may use.
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Stop living in a fantasy world where "terrorism" is RESISTING OCCUPATION.
Your opinion. The Palestinians have a long history from before 1947 of attacking the Palestinian Jews.
Well, you're that voter base which has been lead to believe that the Zionists are innocent protectors of their great culture.
The rest of the world lives in reality, a reality where:
1. When innocent people grow up under a harsh and brutal occupation against a vastly more powerful oppressor many find methods of resistance. If the resistors put on military outfits and marched through the streets they'd be annihilated instantly. How do you think we fought the "redcoats"!!??
2. It's quite well documented that the Israeli forces deny access to basic medical care across "checkpoints" all over Palestine.
3. The denial of access to trade and resources is also very well documented by every major neutral human rights group.
4. Oh, lest we forget, one country is destroying homes and kicking people off their lands they've survived on for decades to expand "settlements" consistently deemed illegal by the United Nations.
5. If not for the U.S. veto power on the security council, we'd have seen a two state solution decades ago.
Stop living in a fantasy world where the Hamas, or any Palestinian group, have any chancy whatsoever at destroying, invading, or inflicting major harm on Israel. Stop living in a fantasy world where "terrorism" is RESISTING OCCUPATION. Hamas didn't blow up the world trade center.
If the violence perpetrated by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists is futile, then doesn't it strike you as a bad idea to keep doing it? I mean, they've been at it for what, decades? And what has come from it? At this point, all it is is terrorism. They are simply making it easier for Israel to take drastic, violent action. They aren't resisting occupation, because for all intents and purposes, they aren't effective.
They frequently fire rockets at Israel which inflict casualties, as well as employ suicide bombers. Feeble is hardly the word I would use to describe Hamas, an organization intent on destroying Israel.
Might as well keep occupying them until they grow larger then.
That's what happens when you live in a small oppressed area and an airstrike kills a relative(s) of yours.
Might as well keep occupying them until they grow larger then.
That's what happens when you live in a small oppressed area and an airstrike kills a relative(s) of yours.
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Originally Posted by Omnomnomnom
If the violence perpetrated by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists is futile, then doesn't it strike you as a bad idea to keep doing it? I mean, they've been at it for what, decades? And what has come from it? At this point, all it is is terrorism. They are simply making it easier for Israel to take drastic, violent action. They aren't resisting occupation, because for all intents and purposes, they aren't effective.
Exactly. They are determined to destroy Israel through any violent means necessary. Even other people here who have been biased against Israel admit that. It is very difficult to negotiate with an organization whose main theme is violence.
Exactly. They are determined to destroy Israel through any violent means necessary. Even other people here who have been biased against Israel admit that. It is very difficult to negotiate with an organization whose main theme is violence.
Their theme is the same theme used by the human mine sweeper (Ahmadinejad) and the rest of the radical Islamists... WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE FACE OF THE MAP.
They frequently fire rockets at Israel which inflict casualties, as well as employ suicide bombers. Feeble is hardly the word I would use to describe Hamas, an organization intent on destroying Israel.
Plus, are you aware of who is backing Hamas?
Tell me, in the past decade, how many rockets fired vs. how many Israeli's killed by said rockets?
For the most part, the death tolls of Palestinians are four times greater when military conflicts arise, that has little bearing on the daily goings-on in my opinion.
We hear all day long, in the Media, when "rockets are fired" yet we NEVER hear about the daily oppression of Palestinian civilians being shot, bulldozed (literally), and denied medical treatment by the Israeli military. These incidents are simply a daily occurrence for Palestinians and are well-documented by human rights groups, heck, there's hundreds of videos on youtube.
But...but..NO, Rockets were fired
You, as a human being, wouldn't try to fight back at these things you see on a daily basis, in YOUR neighborhood? Give me a break.
Exactly. They are determined to destroy Israel through any violent means necessary. Even other people here who have been biased against Israel admit that. It is very difficult to negotiate with an organization whose main theme is violence.
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez
Their theme is the same theme used by the human mine sweeper (Ahmadinejad) and the rest of the radical Islamists... WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE FACE OF THE MAP.
Somebody's been reading their AIPAC propaganda pamphlets!
Somebody's been reading their AIPAC propaganda pamphlets!
Nope. Just the Hamas charter.
I love how anyone insulting Hamas is called a "Zionist" (like that is a bad insult to throw around these days) or "AIPAC". I am just telling it like I see it. Hamas is a terrorist organization focused on violence. They say it themselves. How can it be propaganda if they explicitly say they want the destruction of Israel?
Exactly. They are determined to destroy Israel through any violent means necessary. Even other people here who have been biased against Israel admit that. It is very difficult to negotiate with an organization whose main theme is violence.
It's been reported numerous times that Hamas would accept a truce with Israel in exchange for a Palestinian state with the 1967 borders. I don't know if that's changed.
Last edited by Gil Gunderson: 11-15-2012 at 10:33 PM.
Exactly. They are determined to destroy Israel through any violent means necessary. Even other people here who have been biased against Israel admit that. It is very difficult to negotiate with an organization whose main theme is violence.
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Originally Posted by ChiGuySez
Their theme is the same theme used by the human mine sweeper (Ahmadinejad) and the rest of the radical Islamists... WIPE ISRAEL OFF THE FACE OF THE MAP.
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Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, agrees that Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as, "the Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)."[88] According to Cole, "Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian." Instead, "he did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."[89] The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) translated the phrase similarly, as "this regime" must be "eliminated from the pages of history."[90]
I love how anyone insulting Hamas is called a "Zionist" (like that is a bad insult to throw around these days) or "AIPAC". I am just telling it like I see it. Hamas is a terrorist organization focused on violence. They say it themselves. How can it be propaganda if they explicitly say they want the destruction of Israel?
They want to destroy the Israel that engages in genocide. Israel is a real, immovable fact in the region. Most Muslims in the region get it; the Palestinians, who suffer greatly, are not so naive to think their oppressors are "gonna get wiped off the map." They just want to move about freely, and stop having their homes and orchards bulldozed to make way for some crazed settlers from Brooklyn.
The occupation gave birth to Hamas (which was also nurtured in it's nascent stages by Mossad to be a counterweight to Arafat's PLO -- fact), not the other way around. People act as if Palestinian violence precedes Israeli aggression, when in fact it's clearly and unambiguously the other way around.
They want to destroy the Israel that engages in genocide. Israel is a real, immovable fact in the region. Most Muslims in the region get it; the Palestinians, who suffer greatly, are not so naive to think their oppressors are "gonna get wiped off the map." They just want to move about freely, and stop having their homes and orchards bulldozed to make way for some crazed settlers from Brooklyn.
The occupation gave birth to Hamas (which was also nurtured in it's nascent stages by Mossad to be a counterweight to Arafat's PLO -- fact), not the other way around. People act as if Palestinian violence precedes Israeli aggression, when in fact it's clearly and unambiguously the other way around.
So you are going to pretend Hamas has no violent intentions whatsoever?
I love how anyone insulting Hamas is called a "Zionist" (like that is a bad insult to throw around these days) or "AIPAC". I am just telling it like I see it. Hamas is a terrorist organization focused on violence. They say it themselves. How can it be propaganda if they explicitly say they want the destruction of Israel?
Look, Hamas is bad dude. I think everybody understands that.
But it's also important to understand that because of unilateral decisions made by the Israeli government IE apartheid policy, millions of innocent Muslims in the West Bank have suffered for decades now.
This is something that is not touched on at all in mainstream media and needs to be considered when looking at this conflict.
Look, Hamas is bad dude. I think everybody understands that.
But it's also important to understand that because of unilateral decisions made by the Israeli government IE apartheid policy, millions of innocent Muslims in the West Bank have suffered for decades now.
This is something that is not touched on at all in mainstream media and needs to be considered when looking at this conflict.
Apparently not everyone. Some people think it's justified for them to continue their violent ways.
So you are going to pretend Hamas has no violent intentions whatsoever?
Do you believe in the concept of "just violence." When the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto rose up against the Germans, do we refer to their violence as morally repugnant? On the contrary, it's the essence of the human spirit to resist degradation by any means necessary.
I don't condone violence but I understand it's origins while differentiating between "resistance" and "aggression/occupation." Both concepts embody violence, but in very different ways.
They want to destroy the Israel that engages in genocide. Israel is a real, immovable fact in the region. Most Muslims in the region get it; the Palestinians, who suffer greatly, are not so naive to think their oppression are "gonna get wiped off the map." They just want to move about freely, and stop having their homes and orchards bulldozed to make way for some crazed settlers from Brooklyn.
The occupation gave birth to Hamas (which was also nurtured in it's nascent stages by Mossad to be a counterweight to Arafat's PLO -- fact), not the other way around. People act as if Palestinian violence precedes Israeli aggression, when in fact it's clearly and unambiguously the other way around.
I think the caveat here must be that the whole ordeal has reached a point where the origins are largely inconsequential: Israeli violence spurs Palestinian violence, which in turn spurs more Israeli violence. I think had Israel acted differently early on, we might have a more peaceful region. But after awhile, the violence becomes an end itself, and it's something both sides must work on stopping.
