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Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:10 AM
  #401
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by jeety mcjeet View Post
If I'm 95% of the PA that's a terrifying article. Hopefully they are smart enough to speak up for what's in their best interest.
Yeah but how do they get him out if he isn't listening? If he does see a bigger picture above and beyond where the players want to go then we are all seriously pooched.

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11-15-2012, 10:10 AM
  #402
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It's a union - isn't it the membership making the decisions?
That would be the latest concern regarding the NHLPA; being hijacked.

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11-15-2012, 10:11 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Wheeler/Schultz becoming UFAs.
that isn't a ncaa loop hole, that is a rookie loop hole. if players cannot agree to terms with the team they got drafted to (meaning they don't want to sign with that team), then can either go back into the draft (if young enough), or become a ufa.

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11-15-2012, 10:12 AM
  #404
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It really doesn't seem like Fehr and the top earning players care about the players who stand to lose 1 of the 2 or 3 years of NHL play they will ever earn in their careers.

The guys who toil in the AHL for years, get a 2 year NHL contract at 27 and never sign another 1-way deal.

Crosby, Toews, Malkin etc. can all afford to lose a year since they have millions more coming in future seasons.

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11-15-2012, 10:13 AM
  #405
Stewie Griffin
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
It's a union - isn't it the membership making the decisions?
Not after Fehr changed their constitution. He holds all the power right now.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:15 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
It's a union - isn't it the membership making the decisions?
NHLPA does not work as a union. They have hardliners who make decisions for everyone.

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11-15-2012, 10:17 AM
  #407
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Piere Lebrun. Time to fish or cut bait:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...l-be-permanent

Know this: s. The long-term damage incurred by this league and industry canít be undone, at this point. ...

And so at this point all that remains is salvaging whatís left of a chance to play hockey this season...

The NHL has informed the NHLPA that talks wonít resume unless/until the players have new ideas or a new proposal to reignite things. Owners donít want to move an inch at this point. Theyíre furious that their $211 million "make-whole" offer was rebuffed so easily....

NHLPA executive director Don Fehr.... has done a "masterful" job so far in terms of managing this lockout, getting the league to move on key issues such as revenue sharing, and keeping his players on board through it all. Heís also frustrated the league to no end. But Fehrís grading is far from complete. His most important test is coming. Unless Iím completely misreading the tea leaves, I canít think of very many NHL players who are willing to sacrifice an entire season of hockey just so they can make a point to commissioner Gary Bettman.

..... if Iím an NHL player, I demand that Fehr over the next 2-3 weeks cut his losses and try to make the best deal possible from whatís left on the table. ........

And hereís where the read on Fehr gets widely different takes. On the one hand, there are people who believe Fehr has always shown an ability to feel the pulse of his membership and if itís a deal they want, heíll deliver one when the time is right.

But there are others who doubt his true intentions.

"I think he wants to rewrite labor negotiations; the game is not his priority," said one NHL team executive.
I think Fehr's made this perfectly clear. I hope the players urge him back because I don't see him getting the negotiations going again without some pleading from players.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:22 AM
  #408
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Ray Ferraro saying he knows lots of players and there is a big under current of the pa saying " we gotta sign this and play now"

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11-15-2012, 10:24 AM
  #409
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Yeah but how do they get him out if he isn't listening? If he does see a bigger picture above and beyond where the players want to go then we are all seriously pooched.
All you need to do is kick one leg out and the table falls. If i'm the rank and file guys i'm not pissing away a million bucks so Crosby and the like can get retirement contracts. Piss off. By the way those same rank and file guys are trying to rip Sid's head off every shift.

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11-15-2012, 10:25 AM
  #410
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Alot of people think of Fehr as some wizard but he's not, he's just a tough as nails bully lawyer just like Bettman is.

It's not so much "Fehr has them thinking they'll get a better deal" as it is "The players know what happened in 2004/2005 and they're not going to get fleeced again"

The crazy part in this thing is the players recognize they'll be giving back on this deal. They've admitted it themselves. Don't throw "well they want raises" into the argument cuz delinked proposals are tactics, just like the owners saying "take it or leave it" on contractual rights.

If a fair deal is on the table, the players will sign off on it and i doubt you'll get the PA coming back to the league with offers they're gonna like.

Who knows, last Sunday, if the league actually was flexible on contract rights, this thing may have had the traction it needed to get done.

I liked the article i read yesterday about neither side putting forth real proposals yet cuz the level of trust just isn't there. Someone or something has to break down that wall if this thing is to be solved quickly.
Please explain, with numbers, how the players "got fleeced" by playing under the last CBA.

The same CBA that the NHLPA and money players have stated publicly that they want to continue to play under.

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11-15-2012, 10:25 AM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Ray Ferraro saying he knows lots of players and there is a big under current of the pa saying " we gotta sign this and play now"
If that's the case, these players have to speak up.

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11-15-2012, 10:30 AM
  #412
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Are all of these particular contracts limits that the League is asking for truly necessary for the owners to achieve their objectives of cutting costs?

If they can get the players to agree to the 50/50 split, and have that completely in place within 3 years, which I know hasn't been done yet, but if they can do that then are all these other contract limitations that the owners are asking for truly necessary? It seems like just a pile of issues that help to prevent getting an agreement done.
Once the NHLPA agrees to a linked system that goes to 50/50 but year 3 the owners will then begin to negotiate the contracts.

Fehr continues to ask for de-linked contracts and NO contract restrictions, which of course won't happen.

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11-15-2012, 10:30 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Wheeler/Schultz becoming UFAs.
While it's distressing to teams and their fans that lose a player this way I don't see it as that huge of a loophole. The NCAA players have to be 4 years out since their draft. If you had a non-NCAA player that had gone 4 years without being signed (presume the player was drafted twice for 2 years of rights each time) they would also be eligible to enter the league as a UFA.

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11-15-2012, 10:30 AM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Ray Ferraro saying he knows lots of players and there is a big under current of the pa saying " we gotta sign this and play now"
I don't understand why we haven't heard more from those players not making multi millions of dollars. There are far too many players who need a paycheck as apposed to those who don't. If the season gets cancelled we will see a storm of player out bursts.

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11-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Please explain, with numbers, how the players "got fleeced" by playing under the last CBA.
I'm not pro-PA by any means, but here are a few:

24% rollback on all players' salaries
Reduction in player's share of revenues from ~75% to 57%
Salary cap artificially limiting "free market" contracts (sorry, no actual numbers here)

If someone told me "hey, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago? well, we want another 12%", I'd be less than pleased, and damn the facts. Especially if I was still in my 20's.

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11-15-2012, 10:33 AM
  #416
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Are all of these particular contracts limits that the League is asking for truly necessary for the owners to achieve their objectives of cutting costs?
No, those are different objectives. Its more to help balance out spending and ensure that all teams can compete for players at a relatively equal level. Its more for parity than anything else.

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11-15-2012, 10:34 AM
  #417
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'm not pro-PA by any means, but here are a few:

24% rollback on all players' salaries
Reduction in player's share of revenues from ~75% to 57%
Salary cap artificially limiting "free market" contracts (sorry, no actual numbers here)

If someone told me "hey, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago? well, we want another 12%", I'd be less than pleased, and damn the facts. Especially if I was still in my 20's.
How can you use the 24% rollback as an example when that was the PA's own idea?

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:34 AM
  #418
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I don't understand why we haven't heard more from those players not making multi millions of dollars. There are far too many players who need a paycheck as apposed to those who don't. If the season gets cancelled we will see a storm of player out bursts.
They just haven't done it publically and undermine their union, but I believe that they are getting antsy. That cancellation in a week has to be looming large. Let's see if Fehr can convince them that it is another fake deadline, that will go over well when the month is cancelled and more paychecks are thrown away.

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11-15-2012, 10:35 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by The Note View Post
I think Fehr's made this perfectly clear. I hope the players urge him back because I don't see him getting the negotiations going again without some pleading from players.
This is what I am afraid of and that is how it looks.

Mark Mowers was just on Team 1200 and said that before he went to Europe during the 2004 lockout, he checked with PA headquarters to see if he should stay around. When they said it wasn't close he left .He said that no one goes abraod without first callint PA head office.From anotherof Lebruns tweets:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Agent Pat Brisson says client Cam Fowler of the Anaheim Ducks has signed with Sodertajle (Sweden) and is leaving today


So it seems that while they are telling reporters that a deal is close, they are advising players that ask that they might as well as go overseas.

i think Fehr is trying to set it up for the League in general and Gary Bettman in particular to take the fall if there is the loss of a season.In fact everything that he has done so far seems to show that his goal is not to make a deal but to kill the season ,put the blame on the league and then who knows-go for the cap, try to cook up some sort of court case....whatever it is that on his agenda..

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:35 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'm not pro-PA by any means, but here are a few:

24% rollback on all players' salaries
Reduction in player's share of revenues from ~75% to 57%
Salary cap artificially limiting "free market" contracts (sorry, no actual numbers here)

If someone told me "hey, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago? well, we want another 12%", I'd be less than pleased, and damn the facts. Especially if I was still in my 20's.
If someone told me, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago, then increased it by 200%, well we need 12% back or we go out of business I think I could abide

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11-15-2012, 10:36 AM
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'm not pro-PA by any means, but here are a few:

24% rollback on all players' salaries
Reduction in player's share of revenues from ~75% to 57%
Salary cap artificially limiting "free market" contracts (sorry, no actual numbers here)

If someone told me "hey, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago? well, we want another 12%", I'd be less than pleased, and damn the facts. Especially if I was still in my 20's.
remember when the average salary has doubled since going from 75% to 57%?

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:36 AM
  #422
jeety mcjeet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'm not pro-PA by any means, but here are a few:

24% rollback on all players' salaries
Reduction in player's share of revenues from ~75% to 57%
Salary cap artificially limiting "free market" contracts (sorry, no actual numbers here)

If someone told me "hey, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago? well, we want another 12%", I'd be less than pleased, and damn the facts. Especially if I was still in my 20's.
The parasite should keep the host alive...

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11-15-2012, 10:37 AM
  #423
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If someone told me, remember when we took 24% from your salary 7 years ago, then increased it by 200%, well we need 12% back or we go out of business I think I could abide
agreed. Especially knowing I'll be getting that 12% back within a couple years and MORE money as it goes along.

it's a small price for a big gain in the long run. Not worth sitting around and fighting a year over.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:38 AM
  #424
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
Ray Ferraro saying he knows lots of players and there is a big under current of the pa saying " we gotta sign this and play now"
Not doubting that he said this but do you have a link or a tweet where he actually made that statement

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11-15-2012, 10:38 AM
  #425
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While it's distressing to teams and their fans that lose a player this way I don't see it as that huge of a loophole. The NCAA players have to be 4 years out since their draft. If you had a non-NCAA player that had gone 4 years without being signed (presume the player was drafted twice for 2 years of rights each time) they would also be eligible to enter the league as a UFA.
It's still a problem that needs to be solved. Now we've had two high profile players do this and you can expect that number to grow if it's not closed. This practice goes against the spirit of the ELC system.

Have these players have to choose between signing an ELC or go back in the draft before 21 or find some other way to close this loophole. You don't want NCAA talent start cherry picking their NHL team just because they can and no one else can.

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