HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Does Anybody Here Remember Vera Lynn? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) XXVIII ‎

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-14-2012, 07:56 PM
  #151
nki
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,195
vCash: 500
The players are not very smart, and they are principled. Not a very good combination. Their decision-making is clouded by their hate of Bettman and the owners. With that combination, the only thing that matters is what Fehr's motive is in this, because the players will follow him literally to the (financial) grave.

nki is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 07:59 PM
  #152
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Not likely, all one has to do is look south of the border and what do the fans say? If my team is garbage don't expect me to support it. We aren't sheep.

If I'm making record revenue I'm not going to cut my cooks pay so I can make more. I like to skipper a happy ship.
By the way, you're not "making" record revenue. You're a glorified middle man paying that money right back out to a million other people who make your restaurant hum. Let's complete this analogy: if your cook is making $25/hr, then you, the restaurant owner, are making $1.57/hr.

That's why you don't have a happy ****ing ship.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:00 PM
  #153
Bandit
Registered User
 
Bandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 5,489
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
The funny thing is, does Ott's actions reflect a PA that has been preaching recently that they believe they're closer to a deal? If you're closer to a deal, why are you still resorting to the childish comments and reactions?
You're talking about Steve Ott here. The guy has been accused of many things in his life. Smart has never been one of them.

Bandit is online now  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:03 PM
  #154
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Why do somewhere between 33-50% of all NHL teams lose money?

Bettman is not beholden to the players, but rather the owners and half of them may be losing money?
You bring up a good point of how the owners can collectively like and want Bettman representing them if his system has potentially half the owners losing money. The only thing I can think of as a probable explanation is that the owners collectively believe in the system and have seen benefits from the system in some capacity but they also believe that they need this CBA to address the glaring holes in order to improve their position as financial investors in these NHL teams.

I'm just guessing that even with many teams losing many, perhaps their losses have lessened since the systematic changes that were put in place with the last CBA.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:04 PM
  #155
Shwag33
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 3,930
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'll say this to that comment.

The owners wrote the CBA and did a poor job in doing so.


And you'd be wrong. What do you think happened last time? The players just said yeah do whatever you want?


The owners got fleeced on everything aside from the cap. They are trying to fix that now.

Shwag33 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:04 PM
  #156
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
By the way, you're not "making" record revenue. You're a glorified middle man paying that money right back out to a million other people who make your restaurant hum. Let's complete this analogy: if your cook is making $25/hr, then you, the restaurant owner, are making $1.57/hr.

That's why you don't have a happy ****ing ship.
Why do people pay over a hundred million dollars for a team? Simple they're not money pits and as hard done by as they claim. The only team I see worth nothing is Phoenix the other 29 all worth over 100 million dollars

Confucius is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:05 PM
  #157
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,356
vCash: 50
I'm not sure I'm a fan of canceling just two weeks in December. It would scream out you want a deal done and Fehr won't do anything.

I'd prefer it to be 7th January and after that the boom comes down. Make the players worry.

Freudian is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:06 PM
  #158
mrquincy27
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 244
vCash: 500
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember when the NBA last year said that their season was in jeopardy, a deal was struck like a week later?

Maybe the NHL could try that

Just a thought

mrquincy27 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:08 PM
  #159
trueblue9441
Registered User
 
trueblue9441's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,438
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to trueblue9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrquincy27 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember when the NBA last year said that their season was in jeopardy, a deal was struck like a week later?

Maybe the NHL could try that

Just a thought
these negotiations are following the NBA's last year to a T. the thing the NBA had going for it already was they had contract term restrictions already

trueblue9441 is online now  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:09 PM
  #160
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrquincy27 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember when the NBA last year said that their season was in jeopardy, a deal was struck like a week later?

Maybe the NHL could try that

Just a thought
It's very possible. MANY things have been agreed on, small issues are done, revenue sharing is done. Small contract issues are done.

only the two big problems remain.

if the PA agrees to linkage/make-whole the NHL will bend on contract stuff and this thing will get done very fast. It's that simple. It's probably gonna take a month to get there though.

rdawg1234 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:09 PM
  #161
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
Why do somewhere between 33-50% of all NHL teams lose money?

Bettman is not beholden to the players, but rather the owners and half of them may be losing money?
Nice job of taking a post out of context. The poster I was responding to has claimed the NFL commissioners have been better for the players than Gary Bettman has for the NHL players.

Orrthebest is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:09 PM
  #162
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orrthebest View Post
I put a very simple example for you to answer and you refuse and then attack me. If your in a business meeting are ROI and growth usually reported as a percentage? If I told you you could have a 600% raise over the next 20 years or you could have a 300% over the next 20 years which would you choose? I guess according to you there the same.
You are trying to take apples and oranges and want to call them comparable.

If the NFL decided to go ironman again and reduce their rosters to 23 players, which league do you think would have the higher avg salary over the next ten yrs?

Given the new NFL contract about to kick in, I am beyond certain the avg NFL salary would dwarf the NHL.

If you can't grasp that roster sizes make the leagues impossible to compare, there is no point in taking this conversation any further.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:10 PM
  #163
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Why do people pay over a hundred million dollars for a team? Simple they're not money pits and as hard done by as they claim. The only team I see worth nothing is Phoenix the other 29 all worth over 100 million dollars
Yeah, so you go off to fantasy-land and say "no matter what everyone else in the world claims, Forbes, journalists, ****ing everyone, I refuse to believe that the NHL is actually losing money. I refuse to believe that this is happening, even though it's the only rational way to explain why these otherwise-super-lucrative ventures would EVER bother cancelling a season. I refuse to believe that everything is exactly as it appears, because I'm relying on data from....well, there is absolutely no data to support my position, but I feel it in my heart. And I believe, therefore, that the reason the NHL is cancelling a season is because these uber-successful capitalists, eminently good at turning a profit in all their other ventures, are just hellbent on losing some profit for the **** of it just so they can unjustly stick it to their workforce."

And you go on believing that and reality will move on.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #164
meedle
Registered User
 
meedle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 3,865
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
these negotiations are following the NBA's last year to a T. the thing the NBA had going for it already was they had contract term restrictions already
Difference is, the vast majority of players in the NBA have gone to at least 2 years of college

meedle is online now  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:11 PM
  #165
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,135
vCash: 500
So In August when the players are still crying about a "fair" deal and their lost season...what do you think they'll end up caving for? This is not going to end well for them.

It's like a child trying to show up their parents....the longer they do it...the bigger trouble they'll be in because the parent sets the rules and holds all the power.

Why the CBA ends after free agency is baffling to me as well.

I love hockey, but the NHL truly is a mickey mouse league.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:12 PM
  #166
PBPantherfan
Here we go again
 
PBPantherfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Lake Worth, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,262
vCash: 500
Something that popped in my head today about the lockout hurting the lilttle guy. The Panthers always did a Thanksgiving food drive. I wonder how many other teams did that and how much the charities they gave it to will have to work to make up for that loss this year?

PBPantherfan is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:13 PM
  #167
Langdon Alger*
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,112
vCash: 500
Every cancellation thus far has provoked the two sides to inch closer to one another. Just because the rhetoric has ramped up in turn doesn't mean there hasn't been progress between September and now.

I said two weeks ago we'd have an agreement in place December 18 and the season would start January 1. A December 15 deadline only makes me more sure of it. Remember, neither side desires a cancelled season - the owners don't want it, and the players can't afford it.

Mark my words: In one month's time, the only thing we'll have to complain about is that the whole process didn't begin three months earlier.

Langdon Alger* is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:14 PM
  #168
JAX
Registered User
 
JAX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Country: Canada
Posts: 896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I'm not sure I'm a fan of canceling just two weeks in December. It would scream out you want a deal done and Fehr won't do anything.

I'd prefer it to be 7th January and after that the boom comes down. Make the players worry.
Yep, it might as well be in January because I'm sure Fehr will stall till then knowing a 48 game season can be salvalged. I don't think he would take a dec deadline serious, he would still posture even after the deadline went by.....and then of course blame the league if a deal couldn't be made.

JAX is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:14 PM
  #169
Confucius
Registered User
 
Confucius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Yeah, so you go off to fantasy-land and say "no matter what everyone else in the world claims, Forbes, journalists, ****ing everyone, I refuse to believe that the NHL is actually losing money. I refuse to believe that this is happening, even though it's the only rational way to explain why these otherwise-super-lucrative ventures would EVER bother cancelling a season. I refuse to believe that everything is exactly as it appears, because I'm relying on data from....well, there is absolutely no data to support my position, but I feel it in my heart. And I believe, therefore, that the reason the NHL is cancelling a season is because these uber-successful capitalists, eminently good at turning a profit in all their other ventures, are just hellbent on losing some profit for the **** of it just so they can unjustly stick it to their workforce."

And you go on believing that and reality will move on.
You never answered , why are teams selling for such a high price, because they lose millions per year. I see..

Confucius is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:15 PM
  #170
haseoke39
**** Cycle 4 Eichel
 
haseoke39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon Alger View Post
Mark my words: In one month's time, the only thing we'll have to complain about is that the whole process didn't begin three months earlier.
In one year's time, though, I bet you dollars to donuts the PA is crying because the league suffers a significant drop in revenues and they all lose much more than they thought they were bargaining for.

haseoke39 is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:17 PM
  #171
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,692
vCash: 8000
Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
In one year's time, though, I bet you dollars to donuts the PA is crying because the league suffers a significant drop in revenues and they all lose much more than they thought they were bargaining for.
They only have themselves and Fehr to blame.

MikeK is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:17 PM
  #172
Stuck in Socal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 792
vCash: 500
Wasn't the deadline for the entire season November 26th?

I remember reading that when the lockout first happened when they cancelled the first portion of games.

I believe the season needs to start beginning of December and I hope the NHL pulls the plug.

Stuck in Socal is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
  #173
Orrthebest
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You are trying to take apples and oranges and want to call them comparable.

If the NFL decided to go ironman again and reduce their rosters to 23 players, which league do you think would have the higher avg salary over the next ten yrs?

Given the new NFL contract about to kick in, I am beyond certain the avg NFL salary would dwarf the NHL.

If you can't grasp that roster sizes make the leagues impossible to compare, there is no point in taking this conversation any further.
Why is it so hard for you to admit that GB has been better for the NHL players than the NFL commissioners have been to the NFL players? By the way were talking averages and percentages here so roster size is already accounted for.

Orrthebest is offline  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
  #174
trueblue9441
Registered User
 
trueblue9441's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,438
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to trueblue9441
Quote:
Originally Posted by meedle View Post
Difference is, the vast majority of players in the NBA have gone to at least 2 years of college
difference also is most NBA players are living paycheck to paycheck

trueblue9441 is online now  
Old
11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
  #175
VinnyC
vancity, c-bus, 'peg
 
VinnyC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Na'ē panjā
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,770
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
You never answered , why are teams selling for such a high price, because they lose millions per year. I see..
Because when a team is purchased a lot of other things go along with the team. TV deals, arena contract, subsidies, etc. Etc.

VinnyC is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.