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2012 CBA Discussion Part IV (Lockout talk here)

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:29 AM
  #326
Morris Wanchuk
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Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Source,potential Tuesday meeting may get moved to Wednesday.Result of todays negotiations,PA working internally on economic concepts #TSN

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11-20-2012, 09:42 AM
  #327
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What they should do is have a fan representative in the meeting to knock some damn common sense into these talks. Go ahead NHLPA and owners, keep *****ing about billions of revenue...guess where that revenue comes from? YOUR CUSTOMERS - the FANS. But go ahead, keep pissing off the fans who pay for the player salaries and insane concession prices. Payback is coming NHL...because some us are keeping wallets closed when you guys figure this all out I promise you that.

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11-20-2012, 10:09 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
What they should do is have a fan representative in the meeting to knock some damn common sense into these talks. Go ahead NHLPA and owners, keep *****ing about billions of revenue...guess where that revenue comes from? YOUR CUSTOMERS - the FANS. But go ahead, keep pissing off the fans who pay for the player salaries and insane concession prices. Payback is coming NHL...because some us are keeping wallets closed when you guys figure this all out I promise you that.
fans here knock sense into them???

sjaustin, that`s who I send, not because I agree with him/her, nor disagree, opinion based solely on whom I could see presenting the most detailed (accurate or otherwise) Spreadsheets, Financial Statements and other great fillers, confuse the heck outta both sides so much they just cave

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11-20-2012, 10:31 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Source,potential Tuesday meeting may get moved to Wednesday.Result of todays negotiations,PA working internally on economic concepts #TSN
I don't know, but if all they are going to do is to chat about 'concepts' then you might as well cancel the season now. How about some solid proposals back and forth until it's done?

Concepts? We talkin' 'bout concepts? Not a proposal, not a proposal, but concepts?!

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:44 AM
  #330
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Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype

The NHL expects the NHLPA to collapse? Pathetic. Rather than negotiate a fair deal, owners want to humiliate players once again. Swell guys.

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11-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #331
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Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype

The NHL expects the NHLPA to collapse? Pathetic. Rather than negotiate a fair deal, owners want to humiliate players once again. Swell guys.
It's easier for them to do this, because they've proven they can't come up with a sound business plan to make this league work.

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11-20-2012, 10:48 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype

The NHL expects the NHLPA to collapse? Pathetic. Rather than negotiate a fair deal, owners want to humiliate players once again. Swell guys.
How exactly do you humiliate millionaires with the best medical benefits in the world that play a game nobody cares about? Don't these guys even get meal money still??

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:57 AM
  #333
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Quick glance at Adam's work and he comes off just marginally biased...

...just enough that Fox would call it over the top.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:04 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by beaverjc View Post
What they should do is have a fan representative in the meeting to knock some damn common sense into these talks. Go ahead NHLPA and owners, keep *****ing about billions of revenue...guess where that revenue comes from? YOUR CUSTOMERS - the FANS. But go ahead, keep pissing off the fans who pay for the player salaries and insane concession prices. Payback is coming NHL...because some us are keeping wallets closed when you guys figure this all out I promise you that.
Sorry, they only invite people they care about to the meetings.

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:10 PM
  #335
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Also, if I'm not in the minorty, what does that accomplish? My seats get sold, at a higher price than I'm currently paying per game? We've had this discussion several times in the ticket thread...given the team's popularity right now, from a business perspective, the team WANTS me to give up my tickets. They can make double per seat at the box office than what they're charging me.

I give up my tickets and am not a STH anymore, now have to scramble to find tickets to games that I want to go to, potentially paying a lot on the secondary market for in demand games like the Vancouver game last year, Black Friday, and playoff tickets. And the trade-off is the team makes double what they currently are getting from my seats.

How does that send a message in any way? I'm the one getting screwed here, not the team or your antichrist Jacobs.
Good post and exactly how I feel on this matter.

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11-20-2012, 12:35 PM
  #336
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How exactly do you humiliate millionaires with the best medical benefits in the world that play a game nobody cares about? Don't these guys even get meal money still??
I hope the players get bent over in this deal especially after *******s like Roy are posting pictures of their Ferraris.

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11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #337
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How exactly do you humiliate millionaires with the best medical benefits in the world that play a game nobody cares about? Don't these guys even get meal money still??
Make em fly coach on a commercial flight the first five away games of the season? Some NHL players seem to have forgotten what the real world is like.


Last edited by Kaoz*: 11-20-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #338
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Maybe my wording wasn't the best choice of words Mike, and you are correct.

BUT... my original post was directed at the talk that they make money from their other businesses/ventures. The two are not intertwined and shouldn't be.

If I owned a billion dollar brief and boxer manufacturing company that basically printed its own money and an NHL team that lost money, why should the money I make selling you underwear have anything to do with the financial viability of my hockey team?

Now, if those briefs or boxers had NHL logo's on them, different story
That's not all that far from where they can put their logos the way I feel.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:00 PM
  #339
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I hope the players get bent over in this deal especially after *******s like Roy are posting pictures of their Ferraris.
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Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Make em fly coach on a commercial flight the first five away games of the season? Some NHL players seem to have forgotten what the real world is like.
Funny that players got 85 bucks per day on the road, meal money in 05.... it was to be adjusted with inflation so God knows what it is now... I spend 120 bucks a week in groceries on my budget... LOL.

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #340
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Funny that players got 85 bucks per day on the road, meal money in 05.... it was to be adjusted with inflation so God knows what it is now... I spend 120 bucks a week in groceries on my budget... LOL.
I don't get this argument at all.

Why is it okay for the owners to try to get everything they can, but not the players?

If I were a multi-million dollar commodity in a billion-dollar industry I'd sure as **** be expecting and asking for the best too.

It would also be foolish to think if I took 65 bucks a day for food instead of 85 that Joe Blow would get charges 2 less bucks for a beer at the arena.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:03 PM
  #341
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I don't get this argument at all.

Why is it okay for the owners to try to get everything they can, but not the players?

If I were a multi-million dollar commodity in a billion-dollar industry I'd sure as **** be expecting and asking for the best too.

It would also be foolish to think if I took 65 bucks a day for food instead of 85 that Joe Blow would get charges 2 less bucks for a beer at the arena.
I think a lot of the resentment of players stems from simple envy, which is certainly a natural emotion. Many people would give anything to be able to play a game they love for a living, let alone be paid extremely well for it; hence you have the "they're spoiled brats" or the "I'd play for free" sentiment. I think being a ridiculously wealthy businessman is much more of an abstract concept, and certainly not something you dream about when you're a kid growing up playing sports.

Of course NHL players are very well compensated, though as the saying goes, nothing comes for free. The reason they fly charter, for example, is not because they're being "babied" per se, but because fans want to see strong, rested players on the ice, not a bunch of zombies who've spent excessive amounts of time schlepping through airports. They get paid high salaries because, along with having a relatively short shelf life, they're the best in the world at what they do, and human society places a premium on entertainers. The best musicians and actors are well paid, too. In an ideal world, teachers and firefighters would be paid higher salaries, but I don't see anyone volunteering to pay higher taxes so we can do that.

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11-20-2012, 02:07 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
I think a lot of the resentment of players stems from simple envy, which is certainly a natural emotion. Many people would give anything to be able to play a game they love for a living, let alone be paid extremely well for it; hence you have the "they're spoiled brats" or the "I'd play for free" sentiment. I think being a ridiculously wealthy businessman is much more of an abstract concept, and certainly not something you dream about when you're a kid growing up playing sports.

Of course NHL players are very well compensated, though as the saying goes, nothing comes for free. The reason they fly charter, for example, is not because they're being "babied" per se, but because fans want to see strong, rested players on the ice, not a bunch of zombies who've spent excessive amounts of time schlepping through airports. They get paid high salaries because, along with having a relatively short shelf life, they're the best in the world at what they do, and human society places a premium on entertainers. The best musicians and actors are well paid, too. In an ideal world, teachers and firefighters would be paid higher salaries, but I don't see anyone volunteering to pay higher taxes so we can do that.
I've been trying to sell tickets to watch me teach for years....no sale.

Let me also add I feel zero sympathy for millionaires on an individual basis.

I am generally supportive of the players in this instance, but that does not mean I am sympathetic. I only feel sympathy for small business owners/employees affected by this ****.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:28 PM
  #343
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Derek Sanderson on HockeyCentral at noon asked what he thought about the lockout, paraphrase here but close "not a shock nothing progressing when you have a basketball guy and a baseball guy making key decisions on hockey"

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11-20-2012, 02:31 PM
  #344
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Derek Sanderson on HockeyCentral at noon asked what he thought about the lockout, paraphrase here but close "not a shock nothing progressing when you have a basketball guy and a baseball guy making key decisions on hockey"
Forget who first floated the idea of removing both of them from the process as the best way to get anything accomplished. It's rock vs hard place with those two- neither of which have any incentive to get a deal done with any speed.

It'd be great for an owner to step forward - a la Kraft during the NFL negotiations- to grease the gears a bit and rebuild some trust between all sides.

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Old
11-20-2012, 02:35 PM
  #345
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Make em fly coach on a commercial flight the first five away games of the season? Some NHL players seem to have forgotten what the real world is like.
They should talk to the Hostess people who just lost their jobs about 18,000 of them. Something for them to think about:

Hostess 18,000 employees at an average of $50k each is $900,000,000

NHLPA is about 700 players with the average salary being $2.4 million. They split $1.883 billion in salaries in 2011-2012 .

I'd rather have:



then


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Old
11-20-2012, 02:50 PM
  #346
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Old
11-20-2012, 02:55 PM
  #347
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A big problem seems to be that neither side seems to understand that it's not a top tier sport in North America.

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:21 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
They should talk to the Hostess people who just lost their jobs about 18,000 of them. Something for them to think about:

Hostess 18,000 employees at an average of $50k each is $900,000,000

NHLPA is about 700 players with the average salary being $2.4 million. They split $1.883 billion in salaries in 2011-2012 .

I'd rather have:



then


I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this argument. At all.

"You make a lot of money, so if your boss wants to **** you over, it's OK"?

Heck, ANY First World labor negotiation can be cast in the light of "you're an ungrateful ****, take whatever you can get and be happy with it!" if you want to make comparisons. Your average American mill worker lives like royalty compared to a farmer in Eritrea. That doesn't mean it's OK for the mill owner to be unfair.

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11-20-2012, 03:30 PM
  #349
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I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this argument. At all.

"You make a lot of money, so if your boss wants to **** you over, it's OK"?

Heck, ANY First World labor negotiation can be cast in the light of "you're an ungrateful ****, take whatever you can get and be happy with it!" if you want to make comparisons. Your average American mill worker lives like royalty compared to a farmer in Eritrea. That doesn't mean it's OK for the mill owner to be unfair.
Their bosses the NHL owners aren't trying to screw the players over. The players and agents have been taking advantage of loopholes to screw over the owners and the owners want to close them and the NHLPA (or a small group of hard line players and their boss)are refusing to negotiate. No league or business lets the workers take home 57% of revenues(not profits) and stays in business for long. If you can't see the parallels between the Hostess story and the NHL lockout then maybe you should look into it. But I'll keep it simple here: Hostess was losing money all of the unions except one took a pay cut to stay open. One union said no so they all lost their jobs. Some players want to give back and get a deal done and some don't and I suspect those that don't want to give back are the minority and they are costing everyone money. The moral here if people making $50k are willing to give back so they can work then someone making 2.4 million shouldn't ***** about doing the same to keep their job.


Last edited by Lost Horizons: 11-20-2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: spelling and added
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Old
11-20-2012, 03:34 PM
  #350
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Not to be viewed as weakness in any way, however, after last night there's a seems to be a sense of urgency coming from the players.

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