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2012 CBA Discussion Part IV (Lockout talk here)

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:05 AM
  #751
mikelvl
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Everything bad about hockey is rearing it's ugly head right now:
- Absolutely no end in sight to this unnecessary lockout
- Losing a year with a Bruins Cup contending team
- Jeremy Jacobs and Bettman being the main causes of this disaster
- Phoenix staying put in the desert while Quebec City waits with a potential goldmine

Listened to Peter Gammons today while on the way to work. He said that Bud Selig decided in 2002 when a baseball lockout looked inevitable that there was absolutely no way that baseball could afford for that to happen and he made sure it didn't. Too bad the idiots in charge of hockey couldn't do the same thing.

Also described methodically how Marvin Miller beat the owners and forced them into a real partnership that is thriving today. Would be nice to see in hockey too.

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11-28-2012, 09:05 AM
  #752
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There is no integrity with a 48 game season. I'm good with waiting 'till training camp to get involved again in The NHL .

I can get my hockey "fix" through college. Got tickets for BC/BU Friday at Agannis and plan to see more Eagles hockey through the season.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:14 AM
  #753
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[QUOTE=ODAAT;56087131]
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Originally Posted by Therick67 View Post

Is AHL gear readily available? I`m here in Halifax where it`s pretty much impossible to find in any stores, I`m sure there`s online options but...some fantastic logo`s out there and pretty fun looking stuff I`d consider having

I`ve been rippin it up old school, found and have been playing NHL09 on the ole XBox and loving it for it`s "simplicity"
Every AHL team offers gear on its own website. If you want to browse the league, its website is www.theahl.com.

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:31 AM
  #754
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[QUOTE=Artemis;56087281]
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post

Every AHL team offers gear on its own website. If you want to browse the league, its website is www.theahl.com.
I'll have to check it out, some really fun jerseys out there

Thank you

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:34 AM
  #755
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[QUOTE=Therick67;56087107]
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Originally Posted by Roll 4 Lines View Post

My 8 yr old loves the Bruins, but he's found other things to do. He'd watch some of the game wtih me and in the morning he would ask me who won, who scored.

He will also be getting hockey stuff also, nothing NHL though.
Anyone know of a good hockey book for a 10-year old?

I sometimes wonder if kids even know how to read these days.

Also think he might not be ready for Derek's book!

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Old
11-28-2012, 09:36 AM
  #756
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To those who are getting all wrapped up over the potential "legitimacy" of a 48 game season; Where do you draw the line? The NBA played 66 regular season games last year. Is anyone going to look back on that season and say that the Miami Heat's championship was any less legitimate because they only played 3/4 of a normal regular season? The whole point of the regular season is to determine who the best eight teams are in each conference and who qualifies for the tournament. 48 games is plenty to achieve that goal. Granted, the players and owners lose gate revenue for the 34 canceled games, but I just do not see the big deal. Statistics show that in recent times, seven of the top eight teams at Thanksgiving end up qualifying for the playoffs in each conference. What does that tell you? Water seeks its level and it doesn't take an entire 82 game season to accomplish that.

As far as people saying they won't buy merchandise and tickets anymore, ok. Anyone who has been to AHL games know that it's garbage hockey, filled with fourth line muckers and grinders. The NHL is a far superior product both on the ice and in terms of presentation. If they lose the season, then people have the right to walk away/ be upset IMO. However, I feel that work stoppages at the end of every CBA are all but inevitable now, given that players in all sports have better representation and stronger resolve than ever in history. And to those who say they should just negotiate the new CBA during the playoffs/ start of the off season, remember that desperation creates leverage.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:10 AM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
There is no integrity with a 48 game season. I'm good with waiting 'till training camp to get involved again in The NHL .

I can get my hockey "fix" through college. Got tickets for BC/BU Friday at Agannis and plan to see more Eagles hockey through the season.
I'll go ahead and disagree with you there. I've always felt 82 was way too long. I'd be happy if they went to 60 forever, so I can live with 48.

We're going to see more desperate hockey right away, fresher players for the playoffs, etc. I'd call a shortened season a win for fans.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:14 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
To those who are getting all wrapped up over the potential "legitimacy" of a 48 game season; Where do you draw the line? The NBA played 66 regular season games last year. Is anyone going to look back on that season and say that the Miami Heat's championship was any less legitimate because they only played 3/4 of a normal regular season? The whole point of the regular season is to determine who the best eight teams are in each conference and who qualifies for the tournament. 48 games is plenty to achieve that goal. Granted, the players and owners lose gate revenue for the 34 canceled games, but I just do not see the big deal. Statistics show that in recent times, seven of the top eight teams at Thanksgiving end up qualifying for the playoffs in each conference. What does that tell you? Water seeks its level and it doesn't take an entire 82 game season to accomplish that.

As far as people saying they won't buy merchandise and tickets anymore, ok. Anyone who has been to AHL games know that it's garbage hockey, filled with fourth line muckers and grinders. The NHL is a far superior product both on the ice and in terms of presentation. If they lose the season, then people have the right to walk away/ be upset IMO. However, I feel that work stoppages at the end of every CBA are all but inevitable now, given that players in all sports have better representation and stronger resolve than ever in history. And to those who say they should just negotiate the new CBA during the playoffs/ start of the off season, remember that desperation creates leverage.
I agree with your first point, but the AHL is very far from "garbage hockey." The majority of NHL players come through the AHL, and not all of them are muckers and grinders, not by a long shot.

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11-28-2012, 10:38 AM
  #759
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I'm not going to complain about the length of the season. The Stanley Cup Playoffs are the most gruelling of any major sport. They could play a 10 game round robin for seeding and then a 30 team best of 7 playoff (first in each conference gets a bye), and I would support it. I just don't want to get back into the sport only to be sitting here again in 5 years talking about the same crap. They need to fix the business model and they need to fix it for the next 20+ years.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:39 AM
  #760
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48 games... so 30ish games divisional and the other 18 conference?

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:44 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by ap3lovr View Post
I just don't want to get back into the sport only to be sitting here again in 5 years talking about the same crap. They need to fix the business model and they need to fix it for the next 20+ years.
This is why I tend to fall on the players side. We've seen this 4 times in 20 years.
These owners need to figure out a plan that makes this league work. After the last lockout they got the cap and roll back they so badly wanted.

We shouldn't be here so soon. The problem is, I don't have any faith they can actually figure it out.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
To those who are getting all wrapped up over the potential "legitimacy" of a 48 game season; Where do you draw the line? The NBA played 66 regular season games last year. Is anyone going to look back on that season and say that the Miami Heat's championship was any less legitimate because they only played 3/4 of a normal regular season? The whole point of the regular season is to determine who the best eight teams are in each conference and who qualifies for the tournament. 48 games is plenty to achieve that goal. Granted, the players and owners lose gate revenue for the 34 canceled games, but I just do not see the big deal. Statistics show that in recent times, seven of the top eight teams at Thanksgiving end up qualifying for the playoffs in each conference. What does that tell you? Water seeks its level and it doesn't take an entire 82 game season to accomplish that.

As far as people saying they won't buy merchandise and tickets anymore, ok. Anyone who has been to AHL games know that it's garbage hockey, filled with fourth line muckers and grinders. The NHL is a far superior product both on the ice and in terms of presentation. If they lose the season, then people have the right to walk away/ be upset IMO. However, I feel that work stoppages at the end of every CBA are all but inevitable now, given that players in all sports have better representation and stronger resolve than ever in history. And to those who say they should just negotiate the new CBA during the playoffs/ start of the off season, remember that desperation creates leverage.
I agree with a lot you say but the AHL this year is pretty entertaining. Obviously normally you may have one or two guys who may make top 9 or top 4 defense at any time. Look at the Monarchs- they have a handful of guys who will play some degree in the NHL including newbies like Toffoli and Pearson who are intriguing.

This lockout will start to melt next Wednesday when the Board meets and many, many owners realize what it as stake both monitarily and product wise. I know if I am Detroit, Rangers, Toronto, Vancouver, Philly, Montreal, Buffalo and many others I am speaking up and speaking loudly.

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Old
11-28-2012, 10:58 AM
  #763
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Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
I'll go ahead and disagree with you there. I've always felt 82 was way too long. I'd be happy if they went to 60 forever, so I can live with 48.

We're going to see more desperate hockey right away, fresher players for the playoffs, etc. I'd call a shortened season a win for fans.
A couple weeks ago I was thinking the exact same thing.

I agree that it will be more desperate hockey right out of the starting gates, but because of that I think we would see the intensity ramped up earlier as well. Thus, players may not be as fresh as we originally thought. However, I think it's ultimately a win for the fans because playoff intensity hockey could start sooner than normal.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:08 AM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bp13 View Post
i'll go ahead and disagree with you there. I've always felt 82 was way too long. I'd be happy if they went to 60 forever, so i can live with 48.

We're going to see more desperate hockey right away, fresher players for the playoffs, etc. I'd call a shortened season a win for fans.
48 > 0

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:41 AM
  #765
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I'd rather see 48 than nothing but I understand where people are coming from when they speak out against it. 82 games pretty much ensures the "real" top 8 get in the playoffs as opposed to rewarding a team who got hot for 3 or 4 weeks. In the grand scheme of things, 82 games evens things out.

I don't recall what the standings were at the midway point last year but I don't think the Kings were in the top 8. If you look at things from that perspective, sure, I see why somebody would think legitimacy is compromised in a shortened season.

Having said all that, the NHL is entertainment. Sure, I am more emotionally invested in the Bruins than I am in a tv show or movie but at the end of the day, it is a form of entertainment. I'd rather be entertained 48 times (plus playoffs) this winter than be subject to watching the Raptors bumble along for 70 more games.

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Old
11-28-2012, 11:45 AM
  #766
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a 48 game season is ideal for a team like the Leafs that always has one really hot streak per year, so I can definitely see some surprise playoff teams if this happens. With that said some of my favorite hockey is Olympic hockey which is really condensed into a handful of games so I can totally see the benefit of fewer games allowing guys to play a little more reckless on a consistent basis.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:00 PM
  #767
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44 games makes sense...

6 games vs. the division = 24

2 games vs the conference = 20


Unless the 48 game schedule includes.. realignment (dun, dun dun) I just dont see how it works.

All this being said, I doubt the Devils minded the 48 game season in 1995.

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11-28-2012, 12:01 PM
  #768
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Well, those 48 games would be more meaningful and more intense.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:02 PM
  #769
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48 > 0
This.

Let's start 2013 out with some NHL hockey ...please.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:19 PM
  #770
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Jeremy Jacobs should be held responsible for the lockout.

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...91&feedID=3352

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Jeremy Jacobs should be held responsible for the lockout.

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...91&feedID=3352
Impossible! It's the greedy players' fault!

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11-28-2012, 12:31 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Jeremy Jacobs should be held responsible for the lockout.

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...91&feedID=3352
"If I write an article bashing the owners maybe Looch will invite me to his Christmas party."

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11-28-2012, 12:32 PM
  #773
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Jeremy Jacobs should be held responsible for the lockout.

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...91&feedID=3352
What an absolute disgraceful human being. Jacobs is a nightmare.

Quote:
Winnipeg Jets representation at a recent NHL Board of Governors meeting piped up to say it was opposed to engaging in a long, bloody lockout sure to stymie their franchise’s momentum and hurt the game of hockey.

It wasn’t Winnipeg owner Mark Chipman, but rather one of the alternate governors representing the Jets.

Bruins Principal Owner and Chairman of the Board of Governors Jeremy Jacobs answered by reprimanding the Winnipeg representative as one of the “new kids on the block” and informed him that he would know when he was allowed to speak in the NHL board room.

That’s the kind of hawkish, dismissive, bully mentality that's driving the bus for the NHL lockout that's now cancelled games through the middle of December.

It’s also the reason why Bruins fans should hold Boston Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs personally responsible.

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:37 PM
  #774
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"If I write an article bashing the owners maybe Looch will invite me to his Christmas party."
I'm not in the least a Haggerty fan, but that tale out of the meeting is pretty damn revealing. Unless you think he made it up?

Do you actually believe Jacobs loves the game and has the concerns of the fans in mind?

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Old
11-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Jeremy Jacobs should be held responsible for the lockout.

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...91&feedID=3352
Fair and balanced as always from Mr. Haggerty.

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