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2012 CBA Discussion Part IV (Lockout talk here)

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:38 PM
  #126
EverettMike
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If they cancel the whole season...wow. Never thought it would come to this. Did not even register as an actual outcome to my brain.

Suggestions on what to do with my HF time?

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11-15-2012, 04:43 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
isnt this something akin to terrorism... dont most sane people have a policy not to negotiate with terrorists?

i think the owners as a group feel that bettman has in general done very very well for them. this would be like your kid telling you get rid of your wife if she is making them do their homework and eat their veggies.

you dont let the children make you get rid of your spouse just because they want to throw a temper tantrum with you and you dont negotiate with terrorists and you dont fire bettman unless you yourself get unhappy with him for doign a bad job

right now they arnet unhappy cause hes doing a good job
Not even close to being in the realm of terrorism.

Closer to bribery and extortion but even that's a bit out there.

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Old
11-15-2012, 04:55 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Alberta_OReilly_Fan View Post
the figures come in dribs and drabs

for example right now the oilers are asking for like a 6 mill annual subsidy to operate the new arena... this after origionally promising 100 million out of pocket.

the city hasnt agreed yet.. but the local provincial goverment does run a special lottery for the team

in pittsburg the city gave the ownership group a casino

in tampa they rezoned huge tracks of land

in most cities there huge tax breaks that other businesses dont get

a story today says that florida was promised the marlins would be competitive when they okayed the new arena... different sport i know

in phonix the city approved 25 million a year kickback to the league to run the team the last couple years

how many teams have taxpayer built arenas in the last 10-20 years? how many of the cities/states are financing debt to pay off those buildings?

i mean.. really... i dont have the exact figures cause the exact figures dont get released to people like me... but you yourself must be able to see this fro yourself. cant you?

unless you are in total denial.. ?

it totals into the 100s of millions easy
I'm not in denial. I just think if you're going to use a hard number, it should come from somewhere other than speculation. I asked for the purpose of being able to look at it - not as combat.

But seeing as though we're on the subject... The fact that new arenas will cost taxpayers money will NEVER change. Taxes will always help to flip a bill and most communities are okay with it, because it comes as an overall benefit them. The increase of traffic to a certain area, the profitability of the surrounding businesses... In some cases, the expansion of public transportation (something Edmonton could really use). Among many other things.

I don't see how lowering players' share of HRR is really tied at all to the general taxes of the people. I believe you have a strong enough argument already for a reduction in player share WITHOUT the strawman speculation.

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:06 PM
  #129
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What do GM's make now compared to 05?
What do coaches make now compared to 05?
Whats the average of assistant coaches and staff been since 05?

I went looking, but couldn't find anything.

---Edit-


2011-2012 salary followed by their 2008-2009 salary

Gary Bettman, Commissioner: $7,983,753 - $7,230,783 (3.7mil before the last time he locked out the league)

Bill Daly, Deputy commissioner: $2,856,431 - $1,910,402

John Collins, Chief operating officer: $2,315,455 - $878,226

Colin Campbell, Senior vice president: $2,050,743 - $1,389,142

Craig Harnett, Chief financial officer: $1,544,084 - $938,367

David Zimmerman, General counsel: $975,037 - $577,394

Joseph DeSousa, Executive VP, finance: $876,681 - $520,299

Michael Murphy, Senior VP, hockey operations: $711,119 - $440,317

Stephen Walkom** Director of officiating: $474,601 - $488,736

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2010/07/20100712/This-Weeks-News/Nhls-Legal-Costs-Soar-Bettmans-Pay-Tops-$7M.aspx

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...y-lockout-2012




Those are some pretty hefty raises- in just three years- for running a league into the ground.


Last edited by JMiller: 11-15-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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Old
11-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
If they cancel the whole season...wow. Never thought it would come to this. Did not even register as an actual outcome to my brain.

Suggestions on what to do with my HF time?
Seriously, this is stupid. Two seasons lost in less than 10 years. What a joke. I am as big of a hockey fan as they come, but at this point I am moving on. I just don't care. I have no animosity or regret. The Bruins won the Cup which softens the blow I admit. But, when rich people fight over dollars I tend to lose interest. And I know I ain't the only one. Canada has the CHL and we in New England have Hockey East. We will live without the NHL this year. I wonder if the NHL realizes this. It's not like baseball..The avid fan can get his or her hockey fix elsewhere pretty easily and the casual fan will simply not care and move on.

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11-15-2012, 05:50 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
If they cancel the whole season...wow. Never thought it would come to this. Did not even register as an actual outcome to my brain.

Suggestions on what to do with my HF time?
buy a dog, join a gym, get married, change your oil, buy a plastic snowman for your yard that lights up, learn to swear in a foreign language, take a course on Sabremetrics, watch more internet porn, go to your alma mattah college hockey games, read a book, eat more fried food, PM Dojji and take a day trip to an outlet

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11-15-2012, 05:51 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
If they cancel the whole season...wow. Never thought it would come to this. Did not even register as an actual outcome to my brain.

Suggestions on what to do with my HF time?
Take in couple of Providence B's games.

I didn't think it would come to this either.

A big F YOU to all in charge who let it get this bad.

I am really starting to miss watching the games. I miss seeing the folks at the Gahden...I miss seeing the B's. I am bored and angry.

There is no good excuse for this . There will be NHL games again and this could have and should have been resolved months ago. Stupid men with their big egos .

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11-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
Take in couple of Providence B's games.

I didn't think it would come to this either.

A big F YOU to all in charge who let it get this bad.

I am really starting to miss watching the games. I miss seeing the folks at the Gahden...I miss seeing the B's. I am bored and angry.

There is no good excuse for this . There will be NHL games again and this could have and should have been resolved months ago. Stupid men with their big egos .
me and Julia were eating supper and it was 6 and I said, hmmm...without a lockout you would be heading up to see Susan (thats you) and Wendy right about now to watch warmups; Landeskog and the Avs tonight

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Old
11-15-2012, 05:55 PM
  #134
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Sadly I agree with this.... The players will come out on the short end again...and every time.
Exactly. I thought the players had learn from their stupidity in 2004. Seems they didn't...

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:00 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladyfan View Post
Take in couple of Providence B's games.

I didn't think it would come to this either.

A big F YOU to all in charge who let it get this bad.

I am really starting to miss watching the games. I miss seeing the folks at the Gahden...I miss seeing the B's. I am bored and angry.

There is no good excuse for this . There will be NHL games again and this could have and should have been resolved months ago. Stupid men with their big egos .
A+ to all of this.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:10 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
If they cancel the whole season...wow. Never thought it would come to this. Did not even register as an actual outcome to my brain.

Suggestions on what to do with my HF time?
Sadly that's been my expectation since they canceled the preseason.

The secret to happiness: lower your expectations to the point that they've already been met.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:18 PM
  #137
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Wonder, some fall on the side that a kid like Hamilton is well served with some more time in Junior, other's feel he's NHL ready, this lockout may be a "best of both world's" scenario for him

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:33 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Sources have indicated Bettman floated the idea to NHLPA that both sides take 2 week moratorium.This has NOT been discussed further. #TSN

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:35 PM
  #139
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Exactly. I thought the players had learn from their stupidity in 2004. Seems they didn't...
I thought both sides had

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:38 PM
  #140
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Well if that just isn't the worst news ever...

I don't understand why they're not discussing this for several hours minimum EVERY EFFING DAY. Even if they're sitting in there saying, "Yes" "No" "Yes" "No"...it's something!!

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11-15-2012, 06:38 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
me and Julia were eating supper and it was 6 and I said, hmmm...without a lockout you would be heading up to see Susan (thats you) and Wendy right about now to watch warmups; Landeskog and the Avs tonight
We miss you too

Is Julia playing hockey yet ?

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11-15-2012, 06:45 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by chuckdobbins View Post
Well if that just isn't the worst news ever...

I don't understand why they're not discussing this for several hours minimum EVERY EFFING DAY. Even if they're sitting in there saying, "Yes" "No" "Yes" "No"...it's something!!
Well, I wouldn't call it the worst news ever, since apparently it went over like a lead balloon. Just another demonstration of Bettman's mindset. Maybe Down Goes Brown isn't that far off after all.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:52 PM
  #143
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Well, I wouldn't call it the worst news ever, since apparently it went over like a lead balloon. Just another demonstration of Bettman's mindset. Maybe Down Goes Brown isn't that far off after all.
I think the idea did what it was supposed to do, drop a few jaws.

With that he basically said: "Look I give no *&^S if the season is done, in fact, lets just can it sit back and have a look at it from there"...


...he threw the big brass set on the table.

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Old
11-15-2012, 06:57 PM
  #144
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Finally, something both sides can agree on..... A two week moratorium

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:21 PM
  #145
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A cancelled season won't kill the league, but it will leave it a shattered, post-apocalyptic wasteland mostly devoid of life.

Jeremy Jacobs will survive, and he will charge the cockroaches 8 bucks a pop to drink their own urine.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:37 PM
  #146
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Maybe Bettman and company want to go retro and revert back to 50 game regular seasons like they had in the 1940's.

This lockout will most likely not get settled as long as the two egomaniacs, Fehr & Bettman, are fronting the negotiations. As many have stated, once Fehr was hired by the PA, you knew we were headed down this dead end road.

On a bright hockey note,thanks to the Russian Junior stars and the stars of the CHL we have been treated over the last 2 weeks to 5 highly entertaining hockey games with tonight's final promising to be the best one of all.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:45 PM
  #147
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Quote:
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It's not black and white to me at all. Just the opposite.
Really? This doesn't strike you as an extremely black and white view of the situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Love the game and hate the players? (Not talking about the lockout, but in general.) Sure, I guess it's possible, I mean, we see it a lot, right? I just think it must not be much fun. How can you enjoy a team's success if you think the players are a bunch of jerks?
I haven't seen anyone say that they hate the players, just varying degrees of disagreement with how members of the NHLPA are handling the lockout. You're drawing the conclusion that people who don't agree with players going to Europe, or disagree with some of the stances the PA is taking, must hate the players.

IMO the PA, as a group, is being hypocritical by talking about solidarity but showing none. In terms of my personal values, I absolutely cannot stand that. That is the biggest issue I have with the players this time around, but it doesn't mean that I hate them.

From your posts, it seems like you're saying you either stand with the players or you can't really be a Bruins fan because how can you root for the Bruins if the team is comprised of all of these yucky jerks? To me, that's the definition of looking at it in black and white.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:45 PM
  #148
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Bettman proposes a 2 week moratorium...so pretty much SOP for the negotiations.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:46 PM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
A cancelled season won't kill the league, but it will leave it a shattered, post-apocalyptic wasteland mostly devoid of life.

Jeremy Jacobs will survive, and he will charge the cockroaches 8 bucks a pop to drink their own urine.
Didn't USA tv just sign up for NHL games?

This will put a damper on that.

Personally I am doing fine and proud to say I don't give a rats' ''S'' really.

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Old
11-15-2012, 07:46 PM
  #150
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Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Fehr told Bettman he'd like to talk to his membership about it. NHLPA plans on responding tmrw


Funny if this gets them back in the negotiating room.

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