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Murray Underrated....

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Old
11-19-2012, 09:09 AM
  #126
sanityplease
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas View Post
He just wreaks of Chris Phillips to me. Rielly is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NHL_Entry_Draft
& out of the top two rounds that year, the only other notable player was Dany Briere(@ pick #24).

The odds are definitely stacked against Murray, OR Reilly developing into premiere (Phillips-for most of his career) defenseman in the NHL.

If either team gets a Chris Phillips out of those kids, they will be doing backflips in joy.

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11-19-2012, 10:28 AM
  #127
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A couple things, it's not surprising Murray is under-rated considering the numbers he put up in jr prior to the draft...they are underwhelming for a #2 overall.

Secondly, here are comparisons from 3 different scouts, as per the THN Draft Preview: "one scout compared him to Luke Schenn of the Toronto Maple Leafs, another to Nick Schultz of the Edmonton Oilers, another to Karl Alzner of the Washington Capitols". Those are all pretty underwhelming comparisons for a #2 overall...personally I think I like the Suter comparo. It does seem that Murray gets under-rated by fans and media, but he doesn't seem to be under-rated in the eyes of NHL teams/scouts which is far more important imho.

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11-19-2012, 10:57 AM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
A couple things, it's not surprising Murray is under-rated considering the numbers he put up in jr prior to the draft...they are underwhelming for a #2 overall.

Secondly, here are comparisons from 3 different scouts, as per the THN Draft Preview: "one scout compared him to Luke Schenn of the Toronto Maple Leafs, another to Nick Schultz of the Edmonton Oilers, another to Karl Alzner of the Washington Capitols". Those are all pretty underwhelming comparisons for a #2 overall...personally I think I like the Suter comparo. It does seem that Murray gets under-rated by fans and media, but he doesn't seem to be under-rated in the eyes of NHL teams/scouts which is far more important imho.
I dont understand any of those comparisons. Alzner is better defensively and Murray is better offensively; Schenn is much more physical whereas Murray can actually skate; Schultz never moves the puck up the ice, whereas that is one of the things Murray is quite good at

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11-19-2012, 12:26 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by sanityplease View Post
& out of the top two rounds that year, the only other notable player was Dany Briere(@ pick #24).

The odds are definitely stacked against Murray, OR Reilly developing into premiere (Phillips-for most of his career) defenseman in the NHL.

If either team gets a Chris Phillips out of those kids, they will be doing backflips in joy.
Yea...no. You don't draft #2 and #5 to hope that you get a middling defenseman. You hope that your pick becomes one of the top players in the league. So no they wont be doing back flips if they get Chris Phillips 2.0.

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11-19-2012, 12:31 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Yea...no. You don't draft #2 and #5 to hope that you get a middling defenseman. You hope that your pick becomes one of the top players in the league. So no they wont be doing back flips if they get Chris Phillips 2.0.
You're either underrated Phillips or overrating prospects. There's not enough room for everyone to become a Hall of Famer.

As for Murray vs. Rielly.. it's pretty simple. One got drafted by Columbus the other for Toronto. If Murray went the Leafs he'd be the next Doughty but since he's on the Jackets he's probably a #3.

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11-19-2012, 12:41 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by warrioroftime View Post
you're either underrated phillips or overrating prospects. There's not enough room for everyone to become a hall of famer.

as for murray vs. Rielly.. It's pretty simple. One got drafted by columbus the other for toronto. If murray went the leafs he'd be the next doughty but since he's on the jackets he's probably a #3.
qft.

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11-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
You're either underrated Phillips or overrating prospects. There's not enough room for everyone to become a Hall of Famer.

As for Murray vs. Rielly.. it's pretty simple. One got drafted by Columbus the other for Toronto. If Murray went the Leafs he'd be the next Doughty but since he's on the Jackets he's probably a #3.
This.

Teams and scouts don't assume even picks #1 or 2 will be franchise players. They hope, but they don't make the assumption.

As for Murray, I think the Keith comparison is better than Hamhuis. Hopefully this dislocated shoulder is only a minor setback.


Last edited by Crede777: 11-19-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 01:04 PM
  #133
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So Grigorenko, Forsberg, Radek Faksa, Girgensons, etc. are all as good as Yakupov? Yakupov is just flashier? Yakupov clearly has talent those others are missing. Same with Rielly. He is flashier, yes, but that's because of his talent level.
Interesting comparison. And here I thought we were talking about defensemen, not forwards. This sounds an awful lot like people saying that players who take risks are game-breakers... except when we're talking about defensemen, when that isn't true at all.

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11-19-2012, 01:44 PM
  #134
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My two cents:
Murray is underrated for a couple of reasons 1. No Highlights. Guys like Reilly, Folwer, Karallson get alot of love (deservedly so) for their offense, other players get alot of love for their physical play. Murray doesn't generally make highlight reel plays, he prevents them. Murray is the kind of player a defensive partner loves, he allows guys like Reilly to take risks and play to their strengths. 2. His team. Murray is the type of foundational player you build from and the type of player who gives offensive minded players at all positions the confidence to join in on the rush and take risks. While Murray is more gifted offensively than many believe he is not a "game-breaker" on his own. Murray shines when he has players with the skills and hockey IQ to exploit the turnovers he creates and who can take advantage of his pass out of the zone to create odd man rushes.

Edit:

Also, As everyone has said it is very difficult to compare Murray and Reilly. Reilly is the focal point of the offense, the offense runs through him and he he takes risks and uses his arguably superior physical skills to create opportunities for himself and his teammates. Murray on the other hand is much more a distributor, Murray uses his hockey IQ to make the best pass to allow his forwards to do their jobs, while at the same time finding the best defensive position.


Last edited by alphafox: 11-19-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old
11-19-2012, 02:14 PM
  #135
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Can't say i've noticed Murray being underrated anywhere. In fact he appears to be very highly regarded anytime i've heard his name mentioned.

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11-19-2012, 02:42 PM
  #136
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Any update on his MRI results or anything?

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11-19-2012, 06:54 PM
  #137
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So underrated. You can't come up with an accurate player comparison, simply because there's no player like him. He's got that Lidstrom/Sakic quality where he's the last person you expect to make a mistake and is practically the definition of clutch. Great leader as well.

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11-19-2012, 11:03 PM
  #138
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Murray is like a much better Vlasic in my mind.

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11-19-2012, 11:11 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Flyers7 View Post
So underrated. You can't come up with an accurate player comparison, simply because there's no player like him. He's got that Lidstrom/Sakic quality where he's the last person you expect to make a mistake and is practically the definition of clutch. Great leader as well.
Sure there is, he plays like Jbo pre Calgary. Fluid skating solid in all zones but not flashy. Good offense but i wouldnt say elite. Plays smart.

He isnt like Lids, Lids in his younger days was more flashy than later years.

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11-19-2012, 11:21 PM
  #140
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Solid defenseman, but every time I watched him play, he never had that "it" factor that screamed franchise talent. Wish him the best though, seems like an awesome kid and a future captain.

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11-19-2012, 11:39 PM
  #141
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I see him being like Duncan Keith. Not 69 point Keith, but the 40 point Keith we have been seeing lately. Smoothest of skaters, can carry the puck with ease, and the most reliable on D, while still being reliable for offense.

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11-20-2012, 12:24 AM
  #142
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I'm willing to bet that the majority of you guys posting on here havent watched nearly enough Ryan Murray and Morgan Reilly to be able to form any substantial argument as to who the better player is now, or who will be the better player down the road.


Last edited by will13: 11-20-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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11-20-2012, 11:10 AM
  #143
sanityplease
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Yea...no. You don't draft #2 and #5 to hope that you get a middling defenseman. You hope that your pick becomes one of the top players in the league. So no they wont be doing back flips if they get Chris Phillips 2.0.
Chris Phillips has had a long, excellent NHL career, during which he's been no less than a #2-3 defensive defenseman on a good team (makes playoffs virtually ever year & Stanley Cup finalist). He's been second/third only to the likes of Zdeno Chara, Wade Redden (at his prime), & Erik Karlsson. He's played more than 1000 NHL games & 100+ playoff games.

So yeah.. Murray OR Reilly & their respected teams would be doing very well if they could match that in their careers.

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11-20-2012, 11:42 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
A couple things, it's not surprising Murray is under-rated considering the numbers he put up in jr prior to the draft...they are underwhelming for a #2 overall.

Secondly, here are comparisons from 3 different scouts, as per the THN Draft Preview: "one scout compared him to Luke Schenn of the Toronto Maple Leafs, another to Nick Schultz of the Edmonton Oilers, another to Karl Alzner of the Washington Capitols". Those are all pretty underwhelming comparisons for a #2 overall...personally I think I like the Suter comparo. It does seem that Murray gets under-rated by fans and media, but he doesn't seem to be under-rated in the eyes of NHL teams/scouts which is far more important imho.
True but I think you are missing the type of player Murray is advertised as. He is well rounded in all facets of his game, and his Defensive abilities and instincts are superb, its a safe bet that if they both pan out Reilly will have the better offensive game. It would be something like Weber (Murray) vs. Karlsson (Reilly) I dont think its likely either of them will be on that level but it seems like an apt comparison.

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11-20-2012, 12:00 PM
  #145
Sundinisagod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
A couple things, it's not surprising Murray is under-rated considering the numbers he put up in jr prior to the draft...they are underwhelming for a #2 overall.

Secondly, here are comparisons from 3 different scouts, as per the THN Draft Preview: "one scout compared him to Luke Schenn of the Toronto Maple Leafs, another to Nick Schultz of the Edmonton Oilers, another to Karl Alzner of the Washington Capitols". Those are all pretty underwhelming comparisons for a #2 overall...personally I think I like the Suter comparo. It does seem that Murray gets under-rated by fans and media, but he doesn't seem to be under-rated in the eyes of NHL teams/scouts which is far more important imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
True but I think you are missing the type of player Murray is advertised as. He is well rounded in all facets of his game, and his Defensive abilities and instincts are superb, its a safe bet that if they both pan out Reilly will have the better offensive game. It would be something like Weber (Murray) vs. Karlsson (Reilly) I dont think its likely either of them will be on that level but it seems like an apt comparison.
I don't think I'm the one who's missing the type of player he's advertised as being.

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11-20-2012, 12:05 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Yea...no. You don't draft #2 and #5 to hope that you get a middling defenseman. You hope that your pick becomes one of the top players in the league. So no they wont be doing back flips if they get Chris Phillips 2.0.
Chris Phillips a middling defenseman? LOL.

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11-20-2012, 12:15 PM
  #147
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Last edited by GordieHoweHatTrick: 11-20-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #148
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This is a forum filled with young leafs fans who know very little about prospects, of course they will say Rielly is better then Murray...

Its obvious who the better Dman is right now, for the long run I dont know, nobody does. I think Murray is the safe pick, he should be a Top 2/3 at least, while Rielly is more likely to bust, but also more likely to become a true star.

On my team, I would want Murray, but for a team like the Leafs, Rielly might fit better. Both players should be pretty good though.

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11-20-2012, 01:49 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
I don't think I'm the one who's missing the type of player he's advertised as being.
How so?

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11-20-2012, 02:37 PM
  #150
Andy Dufresne
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
How so?
Above poster bolded your comparison to Weber for a reason. It's a ridiculous comparison, and it really doesn't even matter which Weber you were talking about, Murray is bad comparison to any of the Weber's. Maybe you meant Suter?

I think the above Alzner comparison is a pretty good one. Whoever stated that Alzner is better defensively, I disagree, they're pretty close defensively. Alzner had it much much easier in junior playing on a really good Hitmen team, much easier to look like a mistake free shutdown d-man playing on teams that good.

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