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NHL Lockout Discussion III: It Takes Skill To Be Real, Time To Heal Each Other

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Old
11-20-2012, 01:01 AM
  #1
TMI
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NHL Lockout Discussion III: It Takes Skill To Be Real, Time To Heal Each Other

Continue.

Part I: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1284387

Part II: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1286167

From the first thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
OK we are now allowing lockout talk on the NHL Talk forum. If you would like to voice your opinions of the negotiations and those involved you may do so here.

A few ground rules before we get started:
  • All site rules will still apply, obviously
  • You may post links to news stories, but we will not have a separate thread for that. If you only want news without the discussion there is a thread on the BoH
  • This will be the ONLY Lockout discussion thread on the NHL Talk forum. Do not post new threads for the purpose of discussing the lockout.
  • People are entitled to their opinions. If you have an issue with a post and you feel it breaks a rule, report it and let us handle it. Otherwise your options are to reply in a respectful manner to correct the perceived error, or simply ignore the user. Vigilante troll hunting will result in infractions.
We realize there are posters who feel this topic should be on the BoH still. If you have those concerns you should send a PM to a moderator directly. Those comments are not to be posted in the thread. Feel free to send me a PM, and I will reply as quickly as I can.

Thanks.

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Last edited by TMI: 11-20-2012 at 11:13 AM.
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Old
11-20-2012, 09:07 AM
  #2
SolidSnakeUS
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Let's hope it actually gets somewhat productive today. Do you guys still think a Friday deal (just an arbitrary day) could be possible?

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11-20-2012, 09:11 AM
  #3
CerebralGenesis
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I thought they weren't proposing anything until tomorrow?

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11-20-2012, 09:13 AM
  #4
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Latest from the previous thread:

Quote:
@DarrenDreger

PA is working on NHL questions.1) Where is PA on 50-50,on guaranteed share\Make Whole,contractual issues such as backdiving contracts, etc.


@DarrenDreger

Not to be viewed as weakness in any way, however, after last night there's a seems to be a sense of urgency coming from the players.
Would have been nice to see this urgency three months ago...

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:14 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Let's hope it actually gets somewhat productive today. Do you guys still think a Friday deal (just an arbitrary day) could be possible?
It was reported last night that today may be a regroup day for the PA and they may meet tomorrow instead.

Edit:

Quote:
Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl

Source,potential Tuesday meeting may get moved to Wednesday.Result of todays negotiations,PA working internally on economic concepts #TSN


Last edited by AtlantaWhaler: 11-20-2012 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Source
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Old
11-20-2012, 09:18 AM
  #6
SolidSnakeUS
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Ahh ok. I didn't notice that was posted. Thanks.

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11-20-2012, 09:21 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Latest from the previous thread:



Would have been nice to see this urgency three months ago...
I'm surprised we haven't heard the PA shills or members deny that there is urgency.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:22 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Would have been nice to see this urgency three months ago...
They had to play games, like children do, first.

I doubt the game playing is over.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deebo View Post
I'm surprised we haven't heard the PA shills or members deny that there is urgency.
Wait for it!....

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:28 AM
  #10
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and my biggest fear about this lockout is coming true.

Giroux going overseas and eventually having to fly home because of an "illness" or "minor upper body injury."

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11-20-2012, 09:29 AM
  #11
Iggy77
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Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
That the #NHLPA is likely taking a day to "work internally" on Nov.20th after 8 days off has #NHL frustrated; which may be the point.

Like Grange says I think it's more stalling and games.

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11-20-2012, 09:35 AM
  #12
CerebralGenesis
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Let the games continue onward. Although I think this one is more unintential than vicious.

Seems more and more likely that Fehr and the PA really haven't planned too far ahead for this and will probably submit 5 proposals anyway. Hopefully some of them aren't total BS, but I doubt it at this point.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:35 AM
  #13
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Whew! Just finished the preceding thread. MOD
Question though:

preface: the owners locked out the players, so the owners are responsible for the lockout.

observation 1: NHL approached the NHLPA as early as November 2011 to start discussions, players declined and continued to do so until May. At that point the owners declined to talk.

observation 2: the players refused to negotiate in 2011-12 season because it would be a distraction, yet offered to negotiate during the 2012-13 under the final terms of the old CBA

observation 3: from November 2011 until now, oddly, November 2012, so yeah, one year later we still haven't a full, complete proposal from the NHLPA that outlines fully what they want to see in a contract (or so we're told)

The Question: how can the players be blameless in this situation?


Last edited by Fugu: 11-20-2012 at 02:11 PM. Reason: ot
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Old
11-20-2012, 09:36 AM
  #14
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Bruce Garrioch:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/19/...-lockout-talks

You have to wonder who is going to budge here,” said a league insider as expectations remain low. “Who is going to buckle? I don’t see it happening right now. Nobody is going to get a deal until we’re at a breaking point and I don’t think the breaking point is here.

“A lot of people thought a deal would be done earlier. For it to make any sense for the league and players to get a deal now, they both have to go all in (for this battle). You don’t want to go this far to cut your losses. They’re both still going for the win. They’re not going for compromise. You’re in it to win it. That’s the way they have to think.”


Lets hope thats not the case.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:37 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy77 View Post
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
That the #NHLPA is likely taking a day to "work internally" on Nov.20th after 8 days off has #NHL frustrated; which may be the point.

Like Grange says I think it's more stalling and games.
Isn't anyone else getting sick and tired of hearing Bill Daly ***** and moan???

I mean obviously the NHL has gained the support of most posters on this board so now many can't see it objectively, but there's a lot of open ripping of players for their hat and Twitter stupidity and no anger towards Daly for his daily whining. As though he couldn't be working to get his owners to come a little further towards the PA to help grease the skids.

Bill is just trying to voice the same sentiments as the fans to try to garner public support. It's an act, and it's tiring, much like the PA's BS.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:39 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Bruce Garrioch:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/19/...-lockout-talks

You have to wonder who is going to budge here,” said a league insider as expectations remain low. “Who is going to buckle? I don’t see it happening right now. Nobody is going to get a deal until we’re at a breaking point and I don’t think the breaking point is here.

“A lot of people thought a deal would be done earlier. For it to make any sense for the league and players to get a deal now, they both have to go all in (for this battle). You don’t want to go this far to cut your losses. They’re both still going for the win. They’re not going for compromise. You’re in it to win it. That’s the way they have to think.”


Lets hope thats not the case.


Get prepared for a full season lockout.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:39 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Bruce Garrioch:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/19/...-lockout-talks

You have to wonder who is going to budge here,” said a league insider as expectations remain low. “Who is going to buckle? I don’t see it happening right now. Nobody is going to get a deal until we’re at a breaking point and I don’t think the breaking point is here.

“A lot of people thought a deal would be done earlier. For it to make any sense for the league and players to get a deal now, they both have to go all in (for this battle). You don’t want to go this far to cut your losses. They’re both still going for the win. They’re not going for compromise. You’re in it to win it. That’s the way they have to think.”


Lets hope thats not the case.
That quote is just plain stupid.

Any businessman worth his salt is "in it to won MONEY", not be declared public consensus winner of the negotiation. If this guy is right, the players and league are dumber than I even contemplated.

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11-20-2012, 09:42 AM
  #18
CerebralGenesis
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People are losing interest in the NHL in Pittsburgh even. They aren't taking sides, saying they hate one or the other, just tired of all NHL news. The greed is overwhelming from both sides and it really comes off poorly.

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11-20-2012, 09:44 AM
  #19
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http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...ntoms/45/47594

Meltzer calls Bettman to task.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:44 AM
  #20
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Quote:
If the NHLPA proposal is linked, I think the NHL will move towards the players on contract demands and we'll have a season starting up in December.
Couldn't agree more. If the PA finally puts forth a linked proposal... maybe even 52-48 players but for sure linked with no guaranteed raises.... I'd wager the league will back off on most of it's contract demands with the possible exception of back-diving contracts.

If the PA puts out ANOTHER de-linked proposal then the season is pretty much toast.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:47 AM
  #21
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I have seen info about the hats , the remarks by the players against Bettman and Daly, but didnt see this take on it before:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...tml#more-45025

According to TVA, the hats aren't endorsed by the National Hockey League Players Association. At least not officially; there are those who suspect some of these nasty little verbal jabs are part of a coordinated effort by the NHLPA to smear the commissioner.
.........................................

"Puck Gary" … easy.

Erik Cole rocking a "Geoff Mol-S.O.B" or a "Peter Karmon-ass" hat … yeah, not likely. And yet both are a party, and in the latter case a driving force, to this lockout.

The latter is a good point-if they are going to slang Bettman and Daly, why not stand up and attack the owners who give thm their marching orders.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:48 AM
  #22
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This have probably been asked earlier but does anyone have a clue what the date limit is, to cancel the season?

Lest time it was on Feb. 16th that they've edcide to shut everyting down for the year.

Quote:
With no resolution by the 11:00 deadline, Bettman announced the cancellation of the 2004–05 season on February 16, 2005, making the NHL the first major professional sports league in North America to cancel an entire season because of a labor dispute; the announcement was to have come on February 14, but it was delayed because of the death of the patriarch of the Sutter hockey family four days prior, whose funeral was held on February 15.

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11-20-2012, 09:49 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Bruce Garrioch:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/11/19/...-lockout-talks

You have to wonder who is going to budge here,” said a league insider as expectations remain low. “Who is going to buckle? I don’t see it happening right now. Nobody is going to get a deal until we’re at a breaking point and I don’t think the breaking point is here.

“A lot of people thought a deal would be done earlier. For it to make any sense for the league and players to get a deal now, they both have to go all in (for this battle). You don’t want to go this far to cut your losses. They’re both still going for the win. They’re not going for compromise. You’re in it to win it. That’s the way they have to think.”


Lets hope thats not the case.
Part of 43% or 57% is still something, but right now both sides are pulling in 0%. Everyone's a loser. Poor business strategy.

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11-20-2012, 09:51 AM
  #24
DuklaNation
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I posted in the last thread a method that should meet both sides' needs. On the players side, they come out close to even if they miss a small portion of games this season. They lose if half the season is lost no matter what. For those who defend Fehr, if you break down the #'s, missing anywhere to 30-40% of the current season is a net loss regardless. Thats how stubborn the players side has become. Bottom line, there is a way to achieve the goals of both sides but Fehr isnt interested in that.

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Old
11-20-2012, 09:51 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
Couldn't agree more. If the PA finally puts forth a linked proposal... maybe even 52-48 players but for sure linked with no guaranteed raises.... I'd wager the league will back off on most of it's contract demands with the possible exception of back-diving contracts.

If the PA puts out ANOTHER de-linked proposal then the season is pretty much toast.
If they attempt another de-link. I'd be tempted to say the league ought to cancel the season right then and there. Six times with essentially the same thing is nothing short of ridiculous.

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