HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-16-2012, 11:13 AM
  #251
Do Make Say Think
Soul & Onward
 
Do Make Say Think's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17,320
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
[/I][/B]

Either these pro-pa "reporters" are idiots, or they take us for one.

Donald tells Gary "don't know what there's left to talk about", Gary calls his bluff and tells him fine, we'll sit and think about it for two weeks then.

Fehr then leaks it to the media and continues with his "Hey, we're ready to talk at any time".
It's hard to not to be rooting for Bettman honestly: the owners are the only ones trying to get traction and they have finally had enough of the childish PA behaviour.

Do Make Say Think is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:15 AM
  #252
PeterSidorkiewicz
Original *** allstar
 
PeterSidorkiewicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Michigan
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 15,163
vCash: 500
I find it quite interesting that on this board it looks like the majority of people have taken a side, and have taken the side of the owners. I feel like when I read through this thread when any new information is released on negotiations it's always spun on here that the owners are correct and most, if not all of the blame is placed on the PA.

PeterSidorkiewicz is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:18 AM
  #253
paulster2626
Don't Mess with me
 
paulster2626's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,201
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
(IIRC) Crosby was complaining about the contractual rights changes the league offered in it's last proposal. Personally, they should remain status quo with the exception of back diving / front loaded contracts.

Have any of the PA's proposals addressed contractual rights? Have they countered to any of the leagues "requests".
Don't think so.

It seems to be the NHL is listing what it wants and what it's willing to wiggle on and what it's willing to outright give.

The NHLPA, on the other hand, doesn't really tell the NHL anything. What they really want and are willing to give is still a bit of a mystery.

In the end this is all just figuring out a way to divide $3.3 Billion so everyone gets rich, which shouldn't really be this hard.

paulster2626 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:19 AM
  #254
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...9128--nhl.html

Hockey fan petitions US White House to intervene in NHL lockout.
Really people? It's just hockey

The President has bigger issues to deal with than owners and players who are perfectly fine treating the sport of hockey with wreckless abandon for the sake of getting what they want.

But I don't know, that whopping 305 votes might be able to convince him to take some serious action!

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:21 AM
  #255
njdevil26
Registered User
 
njdevil26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Clark, NJ
Country: Italy
Posts: 6,836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Really people? It's just hockey

The President has bigger issues to deal with than owners and players who are perfectly fine treating the sport of hockey with wreckless abandon for the sake of getting what they want.

But I don't know, that whopping 305 votes might be able to convince him to take some serious action!
I think it's a bigger deal than that... Obama can play the angle of protecting small business owners in NHL cities that are losing a ton of revenue right now and other things like that.

njdevil26 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #256
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
It's hard to not to be rooting for Bettman honestly: the owners are the only ones trying to get traction and they have finally had enough of the childish PA behaviour.
Really? I don't know why anyone would be rooting for either side to particularly get what they want.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:22 AM
  #257
Do Make Say Think
Soul & Onward
 
Do Make Say Think's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17,320
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I find it quite interesting that on this board it looks like the majority of people have taken a side, and have taken the side of the owners. I feel like when I read through this thread when any new information is released on negotiations it's always spun on here that the owners are correct and most, if not all of the blame is placed on the PA.
Most people here have come to the conclusion that the PA is stalling.
I can only speak for myself but that's basically why I have been very voal about my dislike of the PA: they are not doing anything to help.

Do Make Say Think is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:25 AM
  #258
Darylman
Registered User
 
Darylman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
It's hard to not to be rooting for Bettman honestly: the owners are the only ones trying to get traction and they have finally had enough of the childish PA behaviour.
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.

Darylman is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:26 AM
  #259
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,158
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I find it quite interesting that on this board it looks like the majority of people have taken a side, and have taken the side of the owners. I feel like when I read through this thread when any new information is released on negotiations it's always spun on here that the owners are correct and most, if not all of the blame is placed on the PA.
when this started i was pro-deal, anti-nhl, anti-nhlpa. after the league offered the 50-50 with the make whole, and the nhlpa came back with the 3 de-linked offers i turned from pro-deal, to pro-nhl and anti-nhlpa.

Barrie22 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:28 AM
  #260
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,395
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
Both sides apparently came to an agreement on a number of issues that benefit the players in regards to their pensions and boarding and other benefits that work in favor for the players (such as them getting their own hotel rooms as opposed to rooming with a teammate).

Ziggy Stardust is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:29 AM
  #261
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
I think it's a bigger deal than that... Obama can play the angle of protecting small business owners in NHL cities that are losing a ton of revenue right now and other things like that.
No, really it's not bigger than that. The NHL and the NHLPA have no obligation to businesses who aren't associated to them. These businesses reap the benefits of the NHL being in close proximity to them but they do so without any cost to themselves. No business can be forced to make decisions they don't want to make in order to help the business sitting right next door to him. It's unfortunate that the effects trickle so far down but the reality of the situation is that it's not the NHL or NHLPA's problem if a guy is running a business that heavily relies on them to get customers in his doors.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:29 AM
  #262
Slads
Can't-stand-ya
 
Slads's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 208
vCash: 500
It's funny to think of what unions started as and what they have become now. They used to be about getting real things like not having to work for crazy-long hours in terrible conditions for atrocious pay; now having an employer pay for your flights, meals, medical insurance, accommodation, etc. (all first class) and getting paid an average of $2.5 million is outrageous to them. It's funny how times change.

Slads is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:30 AM
  #263
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,158
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
name one that they can? the nhl has no benefits that are big enough to give to the nhlpa (unless you think it is smart business to keep the players at 57% of revenues).

but i can name you just 1, revenue sharing (oh right thats not a concession to the players outright so that can't count).

ok how about single rooms on road trips
how about better pensions
how about more doctors for the players
how about more tickets available to them on road trips
how about players parents get free trips to special games (100th game, 1000th point).
how about more money for father son trips

is that enough? was that more then 1?

Barrie22 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:32 AM
  #264
ScottyBowman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Detroit
Country: United States
Posts: 1,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
They can't. The new talking point is "stalling". For some reason the NHLPA is stalling all this time although they weren't the ones that locked the players out and they aren't the ones offering a 2 week break. It seems to me that the players should take any offer and start playing tomorrow so they can go back to arguing about Crosby vs Ovechkin.

ScottyBowman is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:32 AM
  #265
Deebo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
From Michael Russo:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/177160641.html


Quote:
There has been a lot of headway in negotiations that really has not been spelled out to date, but because the owners are looking to reduce the players’ share from 57 to 50 in a new CBA, there seems to be a perception that the players would get nothing in a new CBA.

That’s not entirely true.

Among other things, the owners have proposed to
1) artificially inflate the salary cap in Year 1 so teams don’t have to trade or release players;
2) trade player salary and cap charges in trades (this is something both teams and players have wanted);
3) eliminate re-entry waivers;
4) Increase revenue sharing with further increases as revenues grow, and the top grossing teams making the biggest contributions (revenue sharing is something Don Fehr is passionate about; wants it so the teams that really need assistance are assisted);
5) Introduction of appeal rights to a neutral third-party arbitrator in cases involving on- and- off-ice discipline (player-proposed wish).

Some other things that the players should like:


1) Joint NHL/NHLPA Health and Safety Committee with equal representation by the league and union;
2) Establishment of a “standard of care” and “primary allegiance” obligations between the team medical staff and players (this is directly due to the tragic Derek Boogaard situation that remains ongoing);
3) Offseason rehab activities would no longer be required in the team’s home city;
4) Players have access to second medical opinions at the club expense;
5) Ice time restrictions and days off during training camp;
5) Improved facility standards in visiting locker rooms;
6) Ice condition improvements and standards;
7) More player friendly rules for parent-son trips, teams would have to pay for parents travel and lodging to first-ever games, other milestones;
8) Different standards for rent and mortgage reimbursements from teams;
9) increased access to tickets for visiting players and also a game ticket policy that minimizes the tax impact on players;
10) And also, the league has agreed to consider a player proposal for single rooms for all players on the road, which would be thousands of extra dollars spent on travel. Typically, players share rooms on the road unless you’re a longstanding player (600 games), or in a lot of cases, goaltenders

Deebo is online now  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:33 AM
  #266
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I want NHL hockey and the owners are the only ones who have shown signs to be willing to get the season going.
This. It seems every time the owners give a little, the PA asks for more. Its makes no sense unless they are resigned to giving up another season, which will destroy the NHL. The players are either misinformed, naive, or plain stupid if they think otherwise.

isles31 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:33 AM
  #267
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
When the avg wage is over 2M per employee, expenses covered, it's hard to see where you are going with this comment...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:35 AM
  #268
Yog S'loth
Registered User
 
Yog S'loth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
I find it quite interesting that on this board it looks like the majority of people have taken a side, and have taken the side of the owners. I feel like when I read through this thread when any new information is released on negotiations it's always spun on here that the owners are correct and most, if not all of the blame is placed on the PA.
I would again state that I think it's not about being on the owner's "side" as much as it is simply understanding reality.

There's no doubt in my mind that the league, and Bettman, have totally mis-handled this situation. It seems their strategy is to deliberately frustrate and alienate the players... to what benefit I cannot comprehend.

That said, the league still holds the cards. Not only do they hold the cards, they own the card table and the chairs the PA are sitting in. They can wait forever. They have the leverage. Right or wrong, it's their league, and eventually, they're going to set the rules... and the players will still make millions and millions of dollars to play a game nine months a year. The frustration is not that the owners are "right" and the players are "wrong"... far from it; it's very easy to understand the frustration and anger the players feel.

Instead, fan frustration (or those who are viewed as pro-owner) is that none of that matters, does it? The players game plan is to destroy themselves waiting for the owners to cave in, when pretty much anyone can see that's not going to happen. The players will eventually sign a deal extremely similar to what's on the table right now... so all the delay is just them needlessly harming themselves.

Yog S'loth is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:35 AM
  #269
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,453
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I want NHL hockey and the owners are the only ones who have shown signs to be willing to get the season going.
Okay fair enough, people differ on which side is actually trying to make traction in these negotiations. For me, I look at it as both sides still doing what they need to do to serve their own best interests. One sides solution may be the solution, or fix many of the problems in the league, but none of it is guaranteed or fool proof. The true health of the league (which I think is the most important thing as a fan) is a secondary issue that both sides are hoping their idea works out, but really, they don't care about that half as much as they care about getting what they want.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #270
powerstuck
User Registered
 
powerstuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Serbia
Posts: 2,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Really people? It's just hockey

The President has bigger issues to deal with than owners and players who are perfectly fine treating the sport of hockey with wreckless abandon for the sake of getting what they want.

But I don't know, that whopping 305 votes might be able to convince him to take some serious action!
Not like Obama didn't chip in his opinion already...during the election...about the conflict.

powerstuck is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #271
optimus2861
Registered User
 
optimus2861's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bedford NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
I seriously doubt that the NHL and the NHLPA will ever reach to a mediator. I don't think they'd be able to agree on a mediator since both sides don't trust one another.

That's a key word; trust. That's a huge reason why there's no hockey.
Yup. The utterly dysfunctional relationship between the NHL & the NHLPA is the key reason this thing is dragging on so long. That's why we'll get another lockout at the end of whatever CBA finally comes out of this mess. One side or the other will feel beaten by this negotiation, and want to 'win' the next one, and the cycle will repeat.

I admit I'm really starting to come around to the idea that Paul Kelly could have saved the NHLPA from this insane death spiral, that the PA made a grave mistake in knifing him in the back, and an equally grave one by inviting Donald Fehr into their ranks. IMO Fehr has done nothing but stall at every opportunity he's been given to move this process forward; it's like he views the actual sit-down negotiations as an inconsequential piece of the overall puzzle, just another venue to play his stalling tactics in the fervent belief that the owners will cave in or that there is some back-pocket 'best offer' the owners have yet to present.

The players, Fehr, and their collective egos are getting closer every day to killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. I can't imagine the owners have a whole lot of patience left.

optimus2861 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:36 AM
  #272
Barrie22
Shark fan in hiding
 
Barrie22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,158
vCash: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyBowman View Post
They can't. The new talking point is "stalling". For some reason the NHLPA is stalling all this time although they weren't the ones that locked the players out and they aren't the ones offering a 2 week break. It seems to me that the players should take any offer and start playing tomorrow so they can go back to arguing about Crosby vs Ovechkin.
ferh was the one that didn't know where to go with the negotiations, meaning he had come a bridge in the road and didn't know how to cross it.

so bettman suggested a 2 week break, so fehr can try and figure out how to cross that bridge.

fehr is the one that doesn't know how to proceed, bettman does but it involves fehr trying to negotiate off of the owners deal. this doesn't mean take it or leave it as you pro-pa people like to think. this means lets come to an agreement on the make whole system and we will go from there with the other issues that you have.

Barrie22 is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:37 AM
  #273
Slatsmsg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Airdrie
Posts: 556
vCash: 370
I feel that Fehr is completely unwilling to give the NHL anything to "hang their hat on". What I mean is that as soon as he begins to acknowledge linkage, well then linkage will be in the deal (which it should be). As soon as he begins to acknowledge a problem with the front loaded deals, well then the length of contract will be restricted (which they should be). Make whole, 50/50, revenue growth at 5%, revenue sharing set at a certain amount.

The NHLPA acknowledge items in the previous CBA negotiations and BAM, they were in the deal (24% rollback). Fehr is refusing to speak the league language (at least in a negotiating sense) because as soon as he does, they will be negotiating off of the leagues framework.

Bettman, with the "moratorium" is basically telling Fehr and the players, we will talk about our offer in a meaningful way or not at all. When you come back to the table be prepared to negotiate, not ignore, this offer.

The NHL will blow up this season if the NHLPA and Fehr refuse to negotiate the NHL's offer. The final CBA will be reflective of this offer in the end game, it will not be based upon the PA's framework. The owners own, the players play, the tail does not wag the dog.

Until Fehr gets this straight in his head (or the players and their agents lose patience with him), this deal will not get done.

Slatsmsg is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:37 AM
  #274
Tra La La
Registered User
 
Tra La La's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Buffalo, New York
Country: Ireland
Posts: 4,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darylman View Post
Name one concession or benefit the NHLPA has received from these negotiations. Go ahead. Name ONE.
Make Whole in the latest proposal, the players wanted more revenue sharing. That's 2 the owners gave.

Tra La La is offline  
Old
11-16-2012, 11:39 AM
  #275
isles31
Poster Excellont
 
isles31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: LI
Country: United States
Posts: 4,027
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
ferh was the one that didn't know where to go with the negotiations, meaning he had come a bridge in the road and didn't know how to cross it.

so bettman suggested a 2 week break, so fehr can try and figure out how to cross that bridge.

fehr is the one that doesn't know how to proceed, bettman does but it involves fehr trying to negotiate off of the owners deal. this doesn't mean take it or leave it as you pro-pa people like to think. this means lets come to an agreement on the make whole system and we will go from there with the other issues that you have.
Not to mention, the NHL wanted to start negotiating last year and Fehr said they didnt want to yet.

isles31 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.