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Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:57 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
So both sides agree that they need to meet. Both sides agree(or at least suggest) that a mediator might be a good idea. So WHY aren't they meeting? This is ridiculous. They're ruining the NHL with every passing day. Maybe I'll take up knitting.
This surprises you? This is Gary Bettman we're talking about.

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11-15-2012, 10:58 PM
  #27
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I love that the Fehr's have the league all in a huff.


"Bout time Daly and the league showed it's teeth..."

^^^The league has been showing it's teeth this entire time.

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Old
11-15-2012, 10:58 PM
  #28
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I like Bettmans move, he clearly doesn't really want a 2 week break. This is his way of saying ball in your court, we're in no hurry to get back to losing money.

Fehr knows damn well a 2 week break means no hockey until January, and possibly not at all. I like this play by Bettman.

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11-15-2012, 10:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Best news I've heard all night.

Fehr went back to the players and they told him to get a damn deal done instead of sitting around not getting paid for 2 weeks. Now pressure him into a linkage offer and we'll be on our blasted way.
Please, Fehr will tell the players the sky is red and they will go back staring into the blue sky until Fehr tells them different.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:00 PM
  #30
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Taking a two week break is a strategy by the owners to put pressure on the players. It means they will be guaranteed to lose another paycheque. Owners are now trying to break the union and divide the players. Whether this will work or not is still in the air.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
What am I missing here regarding Bettman. I heard Bettman suggested a moratorium, but it didn't gain traction.
There were fireworks between a couple of players and Leipold. (Would love it if someone would leak something interesting for a change....)

Maybe Craig's feelings were hurt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
I think the NHL had to get the word out that they are not close to any agreement on the financials. That seemed to be a story put out by the Union. For days we have been hearing from the media that the players and owners had come together and agreed on a 50/50 deal or were close to it , and scratching their heads about why the owners were holding up everything with their refusal to negotiate on the contractual issues.

The PA was setting the league up to take the fall when no deal was forthcoming,despite their denials that an agreement on the financials was even close.Maybe this time they got thier message across.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."
I'm not even in the room and I can tell Daly what the PA's position is (which he in fact knows very well):
1) Make Partial
2) Soft landing on 50/50, but linked to #1 (see, they do believe in some linkage)
3) No thank you on anything you've proposed on Player Contracting Issues. Zilch. Nada. We have an HF smiley that's perfect:


Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Hey adater, did the league say it wants a break or did they suggest a break because one side admitted that they didn't know how both sides could proceed with negotiations?
They know how the two sides can proceed. They could try by considering the three points instead of launching the next "negotiating through the media" salvo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.

This made me laugh.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
I think the NHL had to get the word out that they are not close to any agreement on the financials. That seemed to be a story put out by the Union. For days we have been hearing from the media that the players and owners had come together and agreed on a 50/50 deal or were close to it , and scratching their heads about why the owners were holding up everything with their refusal to negotiate on the contractual issues.

The PA was setting the league up to take the fall when no deal was forthcoming,despite their denials that an agreement on the financials was even close.Maybe this time they got thier message across.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."
And that quote from Daly is what initiates the "it's only going to get worse" philosophy. Until now the owners have refrained from even indirect shots, despite the barrage levied toward them by the players. What I gather is the owners are reaching a point of washing their hands of this until the PA "gets it."

I'll call it now. First week of January or so sees the cancellation of the season if a deal is not made.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mikeda1940 View Post
No, don't change the parameters I set up. I said, all 700 sign with the ECHL and the NHL gets players 701-1400. I'm trying to determine who needs who more. Who will ultimately be more successful. Who will the fans come out to see first, the players or the logo.

If you are more interested in the logo, then the AHL has some very nice teams right now that have identical colors to their parent clubs and even have the actual logos on their shoulders. If those players give you the same excitement and bang for your ticket buck, then congratulations. This lockout should have no meaning for you whatsoever.

I'm suspecting, however, that you are waiting for this lockout to end so you can watch these players play. Not just so you can see your logo in action again.
Don't change the parameters you set up? The parameters you set up are impossible!

Like I said, in fantasy land, if you have a generation to try and grow the game while mind-controlling all players to do what's NOT in the economic self-interest, maybe you have a half-baked point. But in reality, the players need the NHL more, and their actions prove it. They're free any damn time of the day to go sign in the ECHL, like you're saying.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:02 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wondeROY View Post
I like Bettmans move, he clearly doesn't really want a 2 week break. This is his way of saying ball in your court, we're in no hurry to get back to losing money.

Fehr knows damn well a 2 week break means no hockey until January, and possibly not at all. I like this play by Bettman.
Don't be ridiculous. He's not that smart.

I'll take your 2 weeks and raise you a month.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:03 PM
  #35
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Is this a joke?

Honestly. Is this whole thing one big joke on the fans?

Because it feels like it.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:04 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SuperUnknown View Post
What's the use of being at the bargaining table if you're not actively bargaining? It's not because you sit at a table that you are negociating.

Except that you are. Perhaps not bargaining in good faith, or just saying I want what I want because I want it.

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11-15-2012, 11:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And that quote from Daly is what initiates the "it's only going to get worse" philosophy. Until now the owners have refrained from even indirect shots, despite the barrage levied toward them by the players. What I gather is the owners are reaching a point of washing their hands of this until the PA "gets it."

I'll call it now. First week of January or so sees the cancellation of the season if a deal is not made.
That's what makes me think the league is taking the gloves off and won't do anything until the PA does something first.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:06 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.
now way! you mean Fehr didn't pass up a chance to seem like a good guy?!

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by njdevil26 View Post
If they don't come right back from this two week break with a deal... I'm done. I don't want to sound like a selfish ass... but where are the Devils/Rangers/Islanders/Flyers after this hurricane? I think Lundqvist was the only player to do anything.

How about Devils fans and hockey fans paying hundreds of dollars for Kovalchuk's autograph donating money to the Lokomotiv fund... This is a perfect opportunity for the players of the teams here to show how they care for the fans... and they are nowhere to be found. I'll remember that.... I don't need to live paycheck to paycheck just to get tickets to watch the Devils.
How do we know they aren't doing anything? I know the Devils alumni and coaches are having that charity hockey game at Mennen Arena tomorrow night and Cam Janssen's having a charity game in St. Louis to raise money. The players can't exactly organize right now with them all scattered around the world but I'm sure some others are doing things individually. It's not really going to get a lot of press right now unless it was a joint effort though. Donating fifty grand of your own money quietly isn't going to get the press that having an event to raise fifty grand will.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:08 PM
  #40
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darren rovell ‏@darrenrovell
Bettman’s suggestion of a two week moratorium on talks is a good one. Recognizes nothing will get done unless entire season is on line. Bettman is basically saying to the union, I’m tired of sitting around and doing nothing. Let’s go thru some more pain so talks can be real.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:08 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
How do we know they aren't doing anything? I know the Devils alumni and coaches are having that charity hockey game at Mennen Arena tomorrow night. The players can't exactly organize right now with them all scattered around the world but I'm sure some are doing things individually. It's not really going to get a lot of press right now unless it was a joint effort though.
It's pretty easy to release a statement through the press. Hell... TG is probably waiting by his phone for someone to call him.

The alumni game/Sandy benefit was organized by the team. The Devils have done a lot and have done a great job. Has nothing to do with the NHLPA or their members.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:09 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
I think the NHL had to get the word out that they are not close to any agreement on the financials. That seemed to be a story put out by the Union. For days we have been hearing from the media that the players and owners had come together and agreed on a 50/50 deal or were close to it , and scratching their heads about why the owners were holding up everything with their refusal to negotiate on the contractual issues.

The PA was setting the league up to take the fall when no deal was forthcoming,despite their denials that an agreement on the financials was even close.Maybe this time they got thier message across.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/179601461.html

In an email to the Star Tribune, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal. They have utterly refused to negotiate for months. They have made essentially one proposal -- five times. They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check. And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50, on the make-whole and on Player Contracting issues."
This really irks me. The PA has never really made their position clear on anything. They use some sort of misdirection about not negotiating publicly, but I don't think they've even committed to anything privately ... just continuously find something new to whine about. It's just some silly charade ... at least the league has made its stance clear throughout the process. First it was HRR with the PA, and when that was resolved it turns to something else. I figure if the NHL capitulated on the entire "make whole" issue the union would just move onto the next thing and refuse to negotiate anything, meanwhile claiming the next issue was what "the whole thing was about." At least the NHL is trying to find practical solutions.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:10 PM
  #43
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Are they obligated to talk now that they turned down the funeral service? Or did they just refuse the eulogy and will continue not talking?

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11-15-2012, 11:11 PM
  #44
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How thoughtless of the players not to let the owners get back to their golf. This is the last good weather they'll get before it gets too cold!

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanuk23 View Post
darren rovell ‏@darrenrovell
Bettman’s suggestion of a two week moratorium on talks is a good one. Recognizes nothing will get done unless entire season is on line. Bettman is basically saying to the union, I’m tired of sitting around and doing nothing. Let’s go thru some more pain so talks can be real.

This is somehow new?

This is Bettman's only trick. Yay, being the only league to ever shut down for a season was so much fun, we want another.

Just once, I'd love it if he actually got creative and cleaned up his own backyard first.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
And that quote from Daly is what initiates the "it's only going to get worse" philosophy. Until now the owners have refrained from even indirect shots, despite the barrage levied toward them by the players. What I gather is the owners are reaching a point of washing their hands of this until the PA "gets it."

I'll call it now. First week of January or so sees the cancellation of the season if a deal is not made.
Problem is I think this is exactly what Fehr wanted...to bait the league into fire and brimstone. The league demonizing him and throwing around rhetoric only helps galvanize him and the union that much more.

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Old
11-15-2012, 11:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
That's what makes me think the league is taking the gloves off and won't do anything until the PA does something first.
Aye, I suspect the NHL's stance is, "start negotiating off our proposals because despite your whining. That is ultimately what we want." Of course, the PA is free to disagree however, it is within their best interest to humor the league and attempt to gain benefits from those proposals. Repeatedly submitting their own proposal - a slight variation from the original - is not going to get them anywhere.

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11-15-2012, 11:14 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Problem is I think this is exactly what Fehr wanted...to bait the league into fire and brimstone. The league demonizing him and throwing around rhetoric only helps galvanize him and the union that much more.

Don't make Fehr the scapegoat. Bettman's negotiating tactics are well-known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Aye, I suspect the NHL's stance is, "start negotiating off our proposals because despite your whining. That is ultimately what we want." Of course, the PA is free to disagree however, it is within their best interest to humor the league and attempt to gain benefits from those proposals. Repeatedly submitting their own proposal - a slight variation from the original - is not going to get them anywhere.
It's gotten them this far. The NHL could decide they're being unreasonable and salvage the season.

Of course, that would mean they would leave the contracting rights alone.

Remember when everyone was screaming that the league was ONLY interested in the HRR and linkage rate. Yup. So do I.

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11-15-2012, 11:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay
NHLPA refuses to opt for 2-week "moratorium" on talks suggested by NHL. Not surprising.
how do you opt out of someone refusing to talk to you? Don't both sides need to agree for any meetings to happen?

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11-15-2012, 11:15 PM
  #50
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Don't make Fehr the scapegoat. Bettman's negotiating tactics are well-known.



It's gotten them this far. The NHL could decide they're being unreasonable and salvage the season.

Of course, that would mean they would leave the contracting rights alone.

Remember when everyone was screaming that the league was ONLY interested in the HRR and linkage rate. Yup. So do I.

And yet the NHLPA still is offering delinked offers.

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