HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Everybody's talking at me; I don't hear a word they're saying (CBA/Lockout XXIX)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-15-2012, 11:16 PM
  #51
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
There were fireworks between a couple of players and Leipold. (Would love it if someone would leak something interesting for a change....)

Maybe Craig's feelings were hurt.

I'm not even in the room and I can tell Daly what the PA's position is (which he in fact knows very well):
1) Make Partial
2) Soft landing on 50/50, but linked to #1 (see, they do believe in some linkage)
3) No thank you on anything you've proposed on Player Contracting Issues. Zilch. Nada. We have an HF smiley that's perfect:


They know how the two sides can proceed. They could try by considering the three points instead of launching the next "negotiating through the media" salvo.

This made me laugh.
Why dont they just make a legitimate counter, add a little more to the make-whole offer(a solid 300 mil) accepting Linkage, and then get rid of everything in the contracts minus variance(and add anything to it in a small way that they want.)?

because doing so would essentially end this right now. But hey screw the smart way!

rdawg1234 is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:16 PM
  #52
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconski View Post
how do you opt out of someone refusing to talk to you? Don't both sides need to agree for any meetings to happen?

What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:16 PM
  #53
PensFanSince1989
Registered User
 
PensFanSince1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconski View Post
how do you opt out of someone refusing to talk to you? Don't both sides need to agree for any meetings to happen?
Bettman suggested the moratorium to Fehr after Fehr said he didn't know how to proceed. Bettman didn't demand it. So, I'm sure if Fehr calls Gary up tomorrow and says they have a proposal to talk about, Gary will listen.

PensFanSince1989 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #54
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Why dont they just make a legitimate counter, add a little more to the make-whole offer(a solid 300 mil) accepting Linkage, and then get rid of everything in the contracts minus variance(and add anything to it in a small way that they want.)?

because doing so would essentially end this right now. But hey screw the smart way!

No. It. Wouldn't.

They want the changes on the contracting rights.

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #55
meedle
Registered User
 
meedle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 3,684
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.
Their own hotel room

meedle is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #56
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
Are they obligated to talk now that they turned down the funeral service? Or did they just refuse the eulogy and will continue not talking?
That remains to be seen. They will make attempts to meet but they will once again say that they don't want to meet with any preconditions of what the meetings should be about and if/when the league refuses, they will say that we are trying to but we don't believe it's fair that we have to meet under their conditions and that it's hard to negotiate and get a deal done when the other side doesn't want to talk. Book it.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:17 PM
  #57
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.
numerous small benefits have been added:

Single hotel rooms, extra training/medical personel.(definitely more, but I don't have the information at hand, at lot of little details to make life better behind the scenes.)

Nothing big but did the players have it rough before?

Come on fugu you're fairly logical, but you seem to look at what can we do for the players! rather than what can we do to end this lockout.

rdawg1234 is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:18 PM
  #58
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
No. It. Wouldn't.

They want the changes on the contracting rights.
all I've read is that if they agree on make-whole, then the contracting rights become much more negotiable.

Make the offer anyway and see what happens.

I dont know why you're supporting the PA's game of chicken.

rdawg1234 is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:18 PM
  #59
PensFanSince1989
Registered User
 
PensFanSince1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,711
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.
Why do they have to give anything up from last CBA?

PensFanSince1989 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:19 PM
  #60
Erik Estrada
One Country United!
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Land of the Habs
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,678
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconski View Post
how do you opt out of someone refusing to talk to you? Don't both sides need to agree for any meetings to happen?
Maybe they wanted to strike an agreement on not talking to each other to get the ball rolling again? Now is the NHL unilaterally taking a break?

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:20 PM
  #61
NJDevs26
Moderator
Status quo
 
NJDevs26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 22,537
vCash: 500
lmao I'm sure the players are just running to accept billions of dollars less money, a more restrictive contract system and decreased FA rights all for the sake of getting their own hotel room. If that's the NHL's only 'concession' Fehr's entering the nuclear launch codes as we speak.

NJDevs26 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:20 PM
  #62
Hockey Crazy
Registered User
 
Hockey Crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.
Maybe they could give all the players Gary Bettman bobble heads?

Hockey Crazy is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:21 PM
  #63
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Why do they have to give anything up from last CBA?

At least you're honest. This negotiation is all about taking anything and everything they want.


Why do the players have to yield on their rights?

To play?


I thought the NHL only wanted to get to 50/50.

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:21 PM
  #64
Bobby Lou
We Surrender
 
Bobby Lou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: The Crease
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,323
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
lmao I'm sure the players are just running to accept billions of dollars less money, a more restrictive contract system and decreased FA rights all for the sake of getting their own hotel room.
Or you know...for the financial sustainability of the league...or something.

Bobby Lou is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:22 PM
  #65
flameaholic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,941
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Why do they have to give anything up from last CBA?
Why do the players? Last time I checked the owners made $3.3 billion in revenues.

flameaholic is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:22 PM
  #66
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
What alternate reality has come over these negotiations.

What will the NHL give up in these negotiations?
Give me ONE thing the players will gain that they didn't have at the end of the CBA.
Why does any side have to give up anything?

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:23 PM
  #67
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by meedle View Post
Their own hotel room

Maybe they can buy the Waldorf Astoria for them with the money they get in return.


(I see someone mentioned something similar. Yes, that's an astute trade.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
Why does any side have to give up anything?

Because one side locked the other side out and said, "Give up these things or we'll lock you out and keep you locked out."

??

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:24 PM
  #68
Ari91
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Maybe they wanted to strike an agreement on not talking to each other to get the ball rolling again? Now is the NHL unilaterally taking a break ?
The NHL never refused to talk. According to Daly, Fehr said that he didn't know how th two sides could proceed with negotiations so then Bettman suggested a 2 week break.

League will only meet under the condition that the PA has a new proposal or wants to discuss something from the NHL's proposal.

PA blasts the league for only wanting to meet under certain conditions and then goes on to say that we'll only meet on the condition that there aren't any conditions.

What a mess, lol.

Ari91 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:25 PM
  #69
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Or you know...for the financial sustainability of the league...or something.

The league is financially unsustainable due to the owners, not the players. They were happy to take (and not share) the expansion fee. Maybe they should have done their homework.

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:25 PM
  #70
NJDevs26
Moderator
Status quo
 
NJDevs26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 22,537
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Lou View Post
Or you know...for the financial sustainability of the league...or something.
So the onus is only on the players to keep playing when the deal is 100% of a downgrade from the last CBA for them?

NJDevs26 is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #71
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 28,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
The NHL never refused to talk. According to Daly, Fehr said that he didn't know how th two sides could proceed with negotiations so then Bettman suggested a 2 week break.

League will only meet under the condition that the PA has a new proposal or wants to discuss something from the NHL's proposal.

PA blasts the league for only wanting to meet under certain conditions and then goes on to say that we'll only meet on the condition that there aren't any conditions.

What a mess, lol.

Seems reasonable to me. If you want to fix a problem, wipe the slate clean and start again.

Fugu is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #72
Renbarg
Registered User
 
Renbarg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,869
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post



Because one side locked the other side out and said, "Give up these things or we'll lock you out and keep you locked out."

??
Yes. Still doesn't mean the NHL has to give up anything.

Renbarg is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #73
rdawg1234
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
The NHL never refused to talk. According to Daly, Fehr said that he didn't know how th two sides could proceed with negotiations so then Bettman suggested a 2 week break.

League will only meet under the condition that the PA has a new proposal or wants to discuss something from the NHL's proposal.

PA blasts the league for only wanting to meet under certain conditions and then goes on to say that we'll only meet on the condition that there aren't any conditions.

What a mess, lol.
And that's a pretty reasonable thing to ask I'd say at this point.

offer a proposal on the same framework(or very similar) as the NHL's and this thing ends quite fast.

rdawg1234 is online now  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:26 PM
  #74
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,287
vCash: 500
The problem is the NHLPA is acting like they are entitled to 57%, as if going down to 50% is really a concession. Well guess what, going to 50% isn't a concession in the eyes of the league. And nor should it be. The players have had it too good and the NHL wants a 'fair' deal. Give them their 50%, 5% year-to-year variance on contracts and stop the back-diving deals and I think the owners would sign on the dotted line. The truth is they don't really care about the UFA or ELC.

DPyro is offline  
Old
11-15-2012, 11:27 PM
  #75
CpatainCanuck
Registered User
 
CpatainCanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
At least you're honest. This negotiation is all about taking anything and everything they want.


Why do the players have to yield on their rights?

To play?


I thought the NHL only wanted to get to 50/50.
You're making a straw man argument. The NHL is offering a deal similar to what the NFL and NBA already have in place. You talk as if 50% of league revenue going to the players is slavery. The players are overpaid at the moment, and as a result the owners have leverage. Because of this they will win the lockout. I'm tired of those on the PA's side whining about victimization.

On the question of contract rights: the nhl would be willing to negotiate them when Fehr agrees to a linked 50%. Why would Bettman negotiate that chip when Fehr refuses to even budge at the biggest obstacle in the negotiatons?

CpatainCanuck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.