HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-20-2012, 03:18 PM
  #251
MessierIsGod
Registered User
 
MessierIsGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Do have any idea what you are talking about? In your previous post,you brought up the size of the roster. The NBA and Billy Hunter agreed to a deal. They brought it to their respective groups and recommended they approve the deal. They did. Fehr and Bettman have the authority to make a deal. They talk to their committees which doesn't include 30 owners and 700 players. The NBA hammered out a new CBA in one night. The NBA and the players association would break to meet with their committees on a conference call. Then they would get back together. In 2002,Fehr hammered out a CBA by meeting for 18 straight hours. Fehr and his group would meet with Selig and his group at the MLB offices. Then Fehr and his group would go back to their offices and then go back to the MLB offices. Fehr and Bettman know what they can sell and can't sell. Both men know the issues and where a deal will be made. If both sides have the will to make a deal,they will.
No, I don't know what I am talking about. And you do? What proof do you have that Fehr and Bettman have the authority to make a deal? If they did, why was there a roomful of players and owners at the meeting last night? Were they just there for the buffet?

I'm not here to argue. It's just my opinion that I don't see it ending in the same time frame as the NBA that GG suggested.

MessierIsGod is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 03:41 PM
  #252
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
No, I don't know what I am talking about. And you do? What proof do you have that Fehr and Bettman have the authority to make a deal? If they did, why was there a roomful of players and owners at the meeting last night? Were they just there for the buffet?

I'm not here to argue. It's just my opinion that I don't see it ending in the same time frame as the NBA that GG suggested.
Thats fine. We're all entitled to an opinion.

My opinion is that you're reasoning (because NHL rosters are double the size of NBA rosters) is absurd.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 03:47 PM
  #253
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,850
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats fine. We're all entitled to an opinion.

My opinion is that you're reasoning (because NHL rosters are double the size of NBA rosters) is absurd.
grammar nazis in 3....2.....1....

Inferno is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 03:52 PM
  #254
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
grammar nazis in 3....2.....1....
Nice. Not even going to edit, because Im a rebel.

But honestly, do people really believe that the fate of the season is in the hands of all 700 players, and all 30 owners?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 03:53 PM
  #255
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
So the players will submit their proposal and if it doesn't match the NHL's exactly Bettman will walk out after 5 minutes?
Is that what we're expecting?
Pretty much. Thats how Bettman has been controlling these meetings.


10:00: Meeting Starts
10:05: NHLPA presents proposal that is fair.
10:06: Bettman notices that it is not the NHL proposal.
10:07: Meeting ends.

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 03:54 PM
  #256
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
But honestly, do people really believe that the fate of the season is in the hands of all 700 players, and all 30 owners?
comma splice

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:00 PM
  #257
HatTrick Swayze
Tomato Potato
 
HatTrick Swayze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 9,283
vCash: 500
Not "news" but great read from Buccigross:

Quote:
Then both sides could save the millions they pay Bettman and Fehr and have even more for themselves. Would the Columbus Blue Jackets gladly take Bettman's salary the next 10 years? You betcha! That's about $100 million. The agents are killing the process as they wait for their time to make their best offer come December. They are prostituting the game, injuring the game, to make a negotiating point. People don't need NHL hockey. It's a choice in a world with more choices than ever. Way more than in 2004-05.
Quote:
It's almost comical that players and owners, and you the fan, are relying on two men with not one hockey cell in their body to determine your fate.
Quote:
My message to the NHL player is to think long and hard about is this: The worker is ALWAYS going to have to take less. ALWAYS. Get over it. We are ALL cattle.

And get over an incredibly low, disrespectful first offer. Welcome to real world. All your fellow workers out here in Real Worldsville receive those.
Quote:
But the more games are canceled, the more the players will lose -- even if they think they will win. CBAs come and go. Careers are short. Players are EXTREMELY well paid. Live below their means and many can be set for a life of choice. Sacrifice a year (or more) of that for ... what? The players would be smart to push for a deal.
Quote:
But, get rid of the salary cap? The NHL fears that is Fehr's deep, dark secret and goal. Are you kidding? Do you know how well you players do BECAUSE of the cap and the floor? Do you know how many Miami Marlins there would be in the NHL if there were no cap and no floor? Do you know how many third-line centers and sixth defensemen are overpaid BECAUSE of the cap? Every NHL team really believes it can win the Cup (seven different winners in seven postcap years), and boy do they try every summer, wildly overpaying many of you. And I cheer every time you get it. I'm happy for your luck.

Because, in the end, it's all mostly luck for all of us. Lucky when Daddy has hundreds of millions and gives you a cushy front-office job. Lucky you have good genetics and loving parents. Lucky, for me, to live in a country that loves sports so much it can support so many 24-hour sports cable enterprises and lucky enough that I work for the biggest one that gives me free Disney passes.

It's all luck, and then we die. Don't be so caught up in greed and money and "winning."
Quote:
This isn't the Industrial Revolution; Donald Fehr isn't Che Guevara.
Quote:
Bettman should not be allowed to pass out the Stanley Cup to the winning team anymore. The deserved boos toward him will sully the moment. He should do the honorable thing and recuse himself from this beautiful and meaningful ceremony involving the ultimate symbol of hockey excellence.
Read more:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/86...ague-eyes-fans

__________________
"Here we can see the agression of american people. They love fighting and guns. when they wont win they try to kill us all." -HalfOfFame
HatTrick Swayze is online now  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:37 PM
  #258
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,747
vCash: 500
Some of the details are starting to emerge

Quote:
Change the free agent calendar, meaning the market would open on June 15 or 48 hours after the awarding of the Stanley Cup — the players want whichever is later — instead of July 1. Arbitration dates may change as well.

• Allow cap space to be included in transactions, to encourage trades and get teams out from under heavy contracts.
Quote:
GETTING CLOSER
The NHL has moved closer to the NHLPA position on:

• Entry-level contracts. The league still wants two-year limits. A club option on a third year is a sticking point.

• AHL salaries. The league is offering to count only those that exceed the NHL minimum ($525,000) against a team’s cap. The NHL had wanted the number closer to $95,000. The victory for the PA here is that AHL players won’t have their salaries count against the players’ share of hockey-related revenue. Accounting would be limited to players in the NHL.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...osal-wednesday

Actually the NHL wanted $105,000 AHL to be the threshold.

Also,revenue sharing is $220M.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:40 PM
  #259
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Actually the NHL wanted $105,000 AHL to be the threshold.
Really? That's a bold request. Where did we learn that?

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:51 PM
  #260
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,357
vCash: 500
Buccigross needs to get real too. The NHLPA didn't bring in Fehr to capitulate again. Whether he's a hockey guy or not they brought Fehr in to get at least a fair (fehr) deal if not to win this thing altogether. Personally they're not going to win but they're not likely to be backed into a corner of 'take it or leave it'.

I'm not sure Buccigross knows **** about what a real union does--but if it gives up something it expects to get something back--even in today's world of anti-union animosity. Quid pro quo and as serious as a heart attack. If it can't do at least that it has no reason for existing. Why the **** would anyone want to pay dues to an entity that is going to lose them money, benefits, rights etc.?

eco's bones is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:54 PM
  #261
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Really? That's a bold request. Where did we learn that?
First or second NHL offer. That is a confirmed demand.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 04:59 PM
  #262
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Buccigross needs to get real too. The NHLPA didn't bring in Fehr to capitulate again. Whether he's a hockey guy or not they brought Fehr in to get at least a fair (fehr) deal if not to win this thing altogether. Personally they're not going to win but they're not likely to be backed into a corner of 'take it or leave it'.

I'm not sure Buccigross knows **** about what a real union does--but if it gives up something it expects to get something back--even in today's world of anti-union animosity. Quid pro quo and as serious as a heart attack. If it can't do at least that it has no reason for existing. Why the **** would anyone want to pay dues to an entity that is going to lose them money, benefits, rights etc.?
Bucci has always been a Bettman schill. This is as negative he has ever been. Bucci is too emotional to be a credible journalist.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #263
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
First or second NHL offer. That is a confirmed demand.
Yeah I didn't realize the number was that low.

I misread the post. Good to see they're at a reasonable number now.

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:00 PM
  #264
Jaromir Jagr
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,263
vCash: 500
It's to the point where I don't even care about reading the news or details and all the different numbers they're crunching and this and that. It should be as simple as this. Take the latest two proposals, meet them halfway in every category down the line and that's fair. One side thinks their proposal is fair, and the other thinks their proposal is fair. Therefore, meet halfway and it truly is fair. Eat **** if you don't like it. Play hockey, you dumb millionaires.

Jaromir Jagr is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:03 PM
  #265
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
It's to the point where I don't even care about reading the news or details and all the different numbers they're crunching and this and that. It should be as simple as this. Take the latest two proposals, meet them halfway in every category down the line and that's fair. One side thinks their proposal is fair, and the other thinks their proposal is fair. Therefore, meet halfway and it truly is fair. Eat **** if you don't like it. Play hockey, you dumb millionaires.
Even if they could agree on that (which they won't and shouldn't) they would still need to what "halfway" is.

It's just not that simple.

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #266
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,098
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Yeah I didn't realize the number was that low.

I misread the post. Good to see they're at a reasonable number now.
105k was previously the break point number for re-entry waivers, which was an artificial cap on AHL salaries. But the Reddens and Fingers of the world didn't count against the cap and recall waivers didn't matter because they would never be recalled.

Making all contracts in excess of 105k count against the cap would have been an even bigger cap against AHL contracts. No AHL players would get more than 105k on a 2 way deal in that scenario. So it's good for the players to get the number up to 525k. We won't see any more Reddens and the star AHL players can make what they deserve and still have a shot of getting called up because the team won't fear losing the player.

GAGLine is online now  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:46 PM
  #267
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Really? That's a bold request. Where did we learn that?
Probably in that first "joke" proposal they made.

Jumbo* is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #268
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon1990 View Post
Probably in that first "joke" proposal they made.
The one where they offered the players 18% of hockey-related revenue, and re-defined hockey-related revenue as "hot dog sales"?

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #269
turcotte8
Registered User
 
turcotte8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,870
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
The one where they offered the players 18% of hockey-related revenue, and re-defined hockey-related revenue as "hot dog sales"?
It was just the buns, not the actual hot dogs.

turcotte8 is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:00 PM
  #270
Kane One
Global Moderator
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 27,447
vCash: 2650
So under that system, Wade Redden will count against the cap?

__________________
++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<
-]>++++++.>+.+++++++++++++++.>+++++++++.<-.
>-------.<<-----.>----.>.<<+++++++++++.>-------------
-.+++++++++++++.-------.--.+++++++++++++.+.>+.>.

New and improved Hockey Standings
"A jimmie for a jimmie makes the whole world rustled." -31-
Kane One is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:07 PM
  #271
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,732
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
So under that system, Wade Redden will count against the cap?
Yes, which leads into another discussion: I haven't heard anything about amnesty buyouts since we first initially heard that the NHL was willing to discuss the possibility and nothing more. Has there been any rumblings?

Brian Boyle is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:12 PM
  #272
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,747
vCash: 500
Redden would count. Amnesty/compliance buyouts. Brooks tweeted 2 weeks ago when they met at the secret location on 41st and 8th those buyouts were on table.

Quote:
We are proposing that the salaries of minor league Players on NHL contracts (above a threshold of $105,000) be counted against a Club's Cap. This provision is intended to prevent Clubs from "stashing" or assigning players to the minors (or any other professional league) for "Cap management" purposes. We are not proposing that any salary paid to minor league Players on NHL contracts be counted against the Players' Share.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643572

The NHL proposed that in their October 16 proposal.

No more re-entry waivers. The $105,000 was used to determine re-entry waivers.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:15 PM
  #273
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Also told that amnesty buyouts are on table.
https://twitter.com/NYP_Brooksie/sta...26714379030529

From November 7.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:24 PM
  #274
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,747
vCash: 500
The Brian Burke idea of trading cap space is on the list. Burke proposed that idea in 2007 when he was still in Anaheim.

The NHL proposed that on October 16. The PA proposed something similar in August.

Quote:
In the context of Player Trades, participating Clubs will be permitted to allocate Cap charges and related salary payment obligations between them, subject to specified parameters. Specifically, Clubs may agree to retain, for each of the remaining years of the Player's SPC, no more than the lesser of: (i) $3 million of a particular SPC's Cap charge or (ii) 50 percent of the SPC's AAV ("Retained Salary Transaction"). In any Retained Salary Transaction, salary obligations as between Clubs would be allocated on the same percentage basis as Cap charges are being allocated. So, for instance, if an assigning Club agrees to retain 30% of an SPC's Cap charge over the balance of its term, it will also retain an obligation to reimburse the acquiring Club 30% of the Player's contractual compensation in each of the remaining years of the contract. A Club may not have more than two (2) contracts as to which Cap charges have been allocated between Clubs in a Player Trade, and no more than $5 million in allocated Cap charges in the aggregate in any one season.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643570

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 06:50 PM
  #275
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,747
vCash: 500
Quote:
Players have been talking as if they are willing to accept a 50-50 split, but they have been dancing around the edges of that move, unwilling to travel the final distance, because they are fearful that if they agree to that, then owners won't budge on the issues of arbitration, free agency qualification and contract lengths.

Owners, meanwhile, are concerned that if they start negotiating on those contract issues, players never will go to move to a true 50-50 split.

Talk about a lack of trust. The two sides don't need mediation as much as they need counseling.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...olumn/1718225/

Very funny.

RangerBoy is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.