2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VII: The Last Waltz "Cut the sheet & drop the puck!"

Cliffy1814 · 11-21-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31-

Or maybe they're negotiating in good faith....

https://twitter.com/ChrisBottaNHL/st...05477588152320

Since they are not releasing it publicly and since the details have been shared by Fehr and his deputies to every media outlet in the civilized world, you'd have to think this is just more posturing.

If this was a proposal that could spark serious negotiations, I think the NHLPA would have waited for talks to break down before sharing with the media.

This is more pomp and circumstance for the fans and media.

RangerBoy · 11-21-2012, 11:47 AM

From: @reporterchris
Sent: Nov 21, 2012 12:42p

The financial gap in CBA talks is on make whole payments. NHLPA asked for $393M today. League has previously offered $211M.

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...07549838540800

RangerBoy · 11-21-2012, 11:48 AM

From: @reporterchris
Sent: Nov 21, 2012 12:44p

Yes, 50-50 plus make whole. RT @mirtle: @reporterchris Yeah. The rest must be all 50-50.

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...08208289742849

Ola · 11-21-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31-

James Mirtle - Globe and Mail

Does that mean they have to agree up to the comma?

Just to set things straight, 180m is not by any standard used substantial. 1m per team and year if term is six years. The PA ate AHL contracts, that's much more than 180m when everything is said and done.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:02 PM

https://twitter.com/cotsonika/status/271311398359928832
https://twitter.com/cotsonika/status/271311627842883584
https://twitter.com/cotsonika/status/271311978864205824

Quote:

I believe PA already presented this idea to eliminate back-diving contracts; league wasn't interested. We'll see now that econ is diff. (1)

Quote:

(cont.) Under PA proposal, cap benefit a team had before player retired early would count against cap after player retired.

Quote:

PA doesn't like five-percent variance because it limits teams' flexibility -- and thus limits the market for players.

I can see their point, but I don't see the NHL signing off on that. It defers the cap penalty way too long.

I Eat Crow · 11-21-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerBoy

From: @reporterchris
Sent: Nov 21, 2012 12:42p

The financial gap in CBA talks is on make whole payments. NHLPA asked for $393M today. League has previously offered $211M.

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...07549838540800

The players are being beyond greedy. My optimism is non existent now

Lundsanity30 · 11-21-2012, 12:07 PM

I have no idea how this stuff works, but is it a 182M gap over 6 years divided by the number of amount of teams in the league? if so, they are fighting over 1M per team which in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Eat Crow

The players are being beyond greedy. My optimism is non existent now

No I'd say that's pretty reasonable.

DutchShamrock · 11-21-2012, 12:10 PM

The NHL's minor league provision had AHL salary counting against the cap but not HRR. That isn't a union change.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30

I have no idea how this stuff works, but is it a 182M gap over 6 years divided by the number of amount of teams in the league? if so, they are fighting over 1M per team which in the grand scheme of things is nothing.

We don't even know if they are fighting that yet. The NHL may accept the make whole part of the deal. They were $381 million apart before today.

Lundsanity30 · 11-21-2012, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31-

We don't even know if they are fighting that yet. The NHL may accept the make whole part of the deal. They were $381 million apart before today.

so they moved about 200M closer then.

Ola · 11-21-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock

The NHL's minor league provision had AHL salary counting against the cap but not HRR. That isn't a union change.

Cap on AHL deals.

You won't sign risky deals on a player that could make or break. And there are alot of them. From Rissmillers to Haley's and guys like that.

There is alot more than 30m of NHL contracts in the AHL on avg. When those misstakes count much fewer misstakes will be made.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30

so they moved about 200M closer then.

Yes. NHLPA asked for $592M before today, now it's $391M.

Fitzy · 11-21-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31-

Yes. NHLPA asked for $592M before today, now it's $391M.

If I were the league i'd view this as a pretty serious concession. But they have to be careful how much they try to work with it because this may be an absolute last ditch "best we can do" offer from the PA to save the season.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis

If I were the league i'd view this as a pretty serious concession. But they have to be careful how much they try to work with it because this may be an absolute last ditch "best we can do" offer from the PA to save the season.

God I hope not. Hope they respond to concessions with concessions.

Call me crazy, but I think they will.

CM PUNK · 11-21-2012, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup

So Ferh and NHLPA doesn't want public to see full offer unlike NHL

Sounds like this is a smokescreen ,,, I imagine there will be major issues with how Fehr defines HRR and other financial aspects

no benefit for the pa to release the proposal at the moment. if the nhl rejects it out right, then they should post it.

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:37 PM

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...20377182023680

Quote:

NHLPA proposes the Upper Limit (salary cap) may not fall below 67.25 M in any year of the agreement.

Oh **** off

CM PUNK · 11-21-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock

The NHL's minor league provision had AHL salary counting against the cap but not HRR. That isn't a union change.

change there is on the threshold up from $105k to $1 mil so it doesn't effect legit ahlers and only applies to nhlers being buried like its intended

CM PUNK · 11-21-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -31-

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...20377182023680

Oh **** off

did you link to the wrong tweet?

Desdichado62 · 11-21-2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup

So Ferh and NHLPA doesn't want public to see full offer unlike NHL

Sounds like this is a smokescreen ,,, I imagine there will be major issues with how Fehr defines HRR and other financial aspects

¨¨

here it is: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:42 PM

PA still wants the rewards without the risks, nothing's changed.

CM PUNK · 11-21-2012, 12:44 PM

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409992

Quote:

o +8M/-8M payroll range becomes +/- 20% of midpoint beginning in 2013/14

that is a big change imo...under the old rules with the floor being 8 mil below the midpoint, the floor grew at a faster rate then the cap

**-31-** · 11-21-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM PUNK

did you link to the wrong tweet?

Yes, sorry here it is:

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/s...20742602358787

silverfish · 11-21-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

The Lower limit must be satisfied without consideration of performance bonuses.

Ouch, Islanders & Oilers

EDIT - Isles actually have much less in bonuses than I had suspected.

So in the PA's plan, in 2013/2014. If the midpoint is say $60, which could be reasonable to expect for a midpoint, the lower and upper limits would be $48 and $72?

And didn't the NHL want an upper-limit of ~$60 in their most recent proposal? Oh boy....

Riche16 · 11-21-2012, 12:50 PM

This isn't going to end well. Sounds almost like the players want nothing to change except the route it takes to get there.