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Blue Jays sign Melky Cabrera (2 years, 16 million)

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:40 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by The Man in White View Post
o rly?

Throw Petite up there as well.

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11-18-2012, 07:37 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
O's greatly overachieved and I doubt they do it next year.
I agree and hope you're right. But with Astros moving to the A's division, Texas possibly losing Hamilton and Napoli and A's overachieving that division should be much weaker. In the East, Jays should be greatly improved, rays and Yankees are always tough, that division remains tough. Not sure if O's will be able to do it again next year. But it should be another tough division next year

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11-18-2012, 07:54 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by DatsyukianDeke View Post
Throw Petite up there as well.
Seriously. Do we really need to over the list of Yankees players that have taken roids over the years?

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11-18-2012, 07:58 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by llb9977 View Post
Oh those Jays always thinking of the children...."hey kids, cheat and take drugs and maybe someday you will make 8 million bucks a year" . Not a great PR move if he is anything but awesome.
I find it ironic it says you are from New York City. How much does A-Fraud make a year?

So you think Melky should lose his career due to doing something MANY others have done?

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11-18-2012, 07:59 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by GIN ANTONIC View Post
Seriously. Do we really need to over the list of Yankees players that have taken roids over the years?
Just list which Yankees didn't. It's a shorter list

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11-18-2012, 11:01 AM
  #131
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Despite getting older the Yankees will always be in contention for the playoffs, although like many of you pointed out, they may be very valunerable this year. The Rays also will always find a way to win, they have pitching and Madden is not afraid to mix and match the lineup daily to get production. Seriously, don't count the Orioles out, Showalter is a terrific head coach. I can see them stick around in it till the last minute. The Red Sox are the weakest team in the division to me. Another year of Ortiz and that abysmal pitching is not going to change overnight. The thing with the Blue Jays for me is that now they have all this talent, they need to not only stay healthy but have the right coaching staff to put this team together. I'm excited for you guys!

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11-18-2012, 11:47 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Despite getting older the Yankees will always be in contention for the playoffs, although like many of you pointed out, they may be very valunerable this year. The Rays also will always find a way to win, they have pitching and Madden is not afraid to mix and match the lineup daily to get production. Seriously, don't count the Orioles out, Showalter is a terrific head coach. I can see them stick around in it till the last minute. The Red Sox are the weakest team in the division to me. Another year of Ortiz and that abysmal pitching is not going to change overnight. The thing with the Blue Jays for me is that now they have all this talent, they need to not only stay healthy but have the right coaching staff to put this team together. I'm excited for you guys!
Agreed. They'd be in a great position in any other division but you never know in the East

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11-18-2012, 12:44 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Texas could be losing Hamilton and Napoli and A's overachieved. That division wont be near as good next year
The Yankees aren't the team they used to be right now and the O's probably won't repeat what happened this year. The East didn't exact;y significantly get better

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In their rotation? How? Johnson, Buehrle, Romero and Morrow are 4 starters. Explain the "holes"?
Lol, do you really have faith in Romero. He was absolute garbage this year. Johnson is injury-prone, Buehrle is no more than a 3rd and Morrow still can't consistently go deep in games.

Also, no depth.

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Right side of the infield? EE is a first baseman. Ya we need to improve over him
He's a dh who can fill in at 3rd and 1st. He sucks in the field.

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will play 2nd and he provides plenty of speed.
His speed only matters for where he plays best; The outfield. He isn't a great 2nd baseman.

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Nobody is planning a parade but they will be greatly improved.
They added 5 talented players and a lot of payroll, they will probably win more games, but they still have holes.

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11-18-2012, 12:46 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Agreed. They'd be in a great position in any other division but you never know in the East
Look, the Jays haven't missed the playoffs for 20 years due to their division. They haven't been good enough. Every other team in the division has won the East at least once in that time.

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11-18-2012, 12:51 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
I agree and hope you're right. But with Astros moving to the A's division, Texas possibly losing Hamilton and Napoli and A's overachieving that division should be much weaker. In the East, Jays should be greatly improved, rays and Yankees are always tough, that division remains tough. Not sure if O's will be able to do it again next year. But it should be another tough division next year
There is a difference between exceeding expectations and overachieving. They scored 99 more runs than they gave up. They didn't defy numbers or get lucky, they were a very good team. And with all the pitchers and significant position players returning, I see no reason to believe they will regress, like you and others are implying.

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11-18-2012, 01:37 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
The Yankees aren't the team they used to be right now and the O's probably won't repeat what happened this year. The East didn't exact;y significantly get better

Lol, do you really have faith in Romero. He was absolute garbage this year. Johnson is injury-prone, Buehrle is no more than a 3rd and Morrow still can't consistently go deep in games.

Also, no depth.

He's a dh who can fill in at 3rd and 1st. He sucks in the field.

His speed only matters for where he plays best; The outfield. He isn't a great 2nd baseman.

They added 5 talented players and a lot of payroll, they will probably win more games, but they still have holes.
I agree with most of what you've said, except:
Johnson has been injured, like most pitchers.. But he's also 2 years removed from being one of the best in the game. I'm not expecting that guy, but I am expecting a big upgrade over Aaron Laffey etc.

Romero had a bad year, his first of his career. I do expect him to rebound, hes a gamer. We lost 3 starters in 4 games, he was on an island and didn't handle it well. With the added depth it'll be more of a rotation rather then Romero and a couple plugs.

Edwin doesn't suck in the field, he actually has a pretty good glove. It was his arm that got him in trouble at 3rd. If he doesn't have to throw, he doesn't make many errors.

Morrow can go deep in games? He was undoubtably our best pitcher last year, he was dominant. He had one bad start in Texas and missed time with injury..... 2.96 era in 21 starts in the AL east, 3 complete games was also a category he lead until getting hurt?


The O's are unlikely to repeat their record in 1 run games, and I really think the Rays will be even more offensively challenged if they do in fact lose Upton. They have easily the best pitching staff top to bottom, but they'll be hard pressed to score enough runs.

The Yankees are the best team in the division right now. If you wanna be the champ, you gotta beat the champ. Until someone proves otherwise, they're it.

The Jays certainly COULD win the east, but realistically they'll be fighting for one of the 2 wild cards.

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11-18-2012, 02:40 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by llb9977 View Post
Oh those Jays always thinking of the children...."hey kids, cheat and take drugs and maybe someday you will make 8 million bucks a year" . Not a great PR move if he is anything but awesome.
Or the Jays are making a smart splash on a good baseball player to go for a competitive run.

If they win a ring, I don't think a single ****ing kid will give two ***** about Melky's past.

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11-18-2012, 02:53 PM
  #138
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Encarnacion doens't suck in the field, he was a 3rd baseman with Cincinati and went to dh after having throwing issues, now that he's playing first base his defence has been stellar with less throwing involved.

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11-18-2012, 04:28 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Look, the Jays haven't missed the playoffs for 20 years due to their division. They haven't been good enough. Every other team in the division has won the East at least once in that time.
Jays fans always bring out the division card, but it rarely comes down to that. The division excuse went out the window when the Orioles nearly won the AL East.

The Jays were mired in mediocrity for years because their managers stank. The Jays were mired in mediocrity because Richardi was their GM. Richardi was awful.

I think Jays fans are impatient. Let's see what AA can do long-term before going to the "Division" card. It's clear that they are a rising young team. What matters is the manager though...especially if they hire someone like Tracy, or Acta. Riggelman is fine as long as he doesn't quit on the team mid-season because he doesn't like his contract.

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11-18-2012, 04:40 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Jays fans always bring out the division card, but it rarely comes down to that. The division excuse went out the window when the Orioles nearly won the AL East.

The Jays were mired in mediocrity for years because their managers stank. The Jays were mired in mediocrity because Richardi was their GM. Richardi was awful.

I think Jays fans are impatient. Let's see what AA can do long-term before going to the "Division" card. It's clear that they are a rising young team. What matters is the manager though...especially if they hire someone like Tracy, or Acta. Riggelman is fine as long as he doesn't quit on the team mid-season because he doesn't like his contract.
You will have to excuse Jays fans for being impatient due to the years of mediocrity we have gone through.

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11-18-2012, 04:46 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Leo Getz View Post
You will have to excuse Jays fans for being impatient due to the years of mediocrity we have gone through.
What I'm saying is that you will have to wait a little bit longer, your time is coming

Baltimore showed it wasn't the division keeping them back

Yankees are declining and Red Sox stink...now is Jays opportunity to take division. No excuses this time if they can't get it done

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11-18-2012, 04:49 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
What I'm saying is that you will have to wait a little bit longer, your time is coming

Baltimore showed it wasn't the division keeping them back

Yankees are declining and Red Sox stink...now is Jays opportunity to take division. No excuses this time if they can't get it done
They got extremely lucky.

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11-18-2012, 06:57 PM
  #143
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I agree with most of what you've said, except:
Johnson has been injured, like most pitchers.. But he's also 2 years removed from being one of the best in the game. I'm not expecting that guy, but I am expecting a big upgrade over Aaron Laffey etc.
Well, yeah, he is a talented pitcher with world class stuff. But, if he lands on the DL at some point (which is likely), how are the Jays going to fill in for him?

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Romero had a bad year, his first of his career. I do expect him to rebound, hes a gamer. We lost 3 starters in 4 games, he was on an island and didn't handle it well. With the added depth it'll be more of a rotation rather then Romero and a couple plugs.
I don't agree with the thought that he had to put the team in his shoulders in his 1 start every 5 days. If he actually believes that he had to, he's got mentality issues.

Also, his strikeout total was significantly lower than previous seasons while his already enormous BB/IP totals went way up. He has to prove it again.

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Edwin doesn't suck in the field, he actually has a pretty good glove. It was his arm that got him in trouble at 3rd. If he doesn't have to throw, he doesn't make many errors.
He doesn't make many errors at 1st, but he doesn't have great range, either. 1st base isn't like it used to be where you could stick a big, power hitter with no arm. Every 1st baseman is expected to be able to throw now.

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Morrow can go deep in games? He was undoubtably our best pitcher last year, he was dominant. He had one bad start in Texas and missed time with injury..... 2.96 era in 21 starts in the AL east, 3 complete games was also a category he lead until getting hurt?
He averaged 5.93 innings/start. Which is much better than what he has done in the past. But, he needs to be able to go 6.25-6-5 to really help his team out and take a load off the bullpen.


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The O's are unlikely to repeat their record in 1 run games, and I really think the Rays will be even more offensively challenged if they do in fact lose Upton. They have easily the best pitching staff top to bottom, but they'll be hard pressed to score enough runs.
I agree. The Jays are the only team in the division to improve upon their roster, so far. The Yankees have a lot of question marks. The Rays are losing one of their best offensive players and the O's haven't done anything to improve their suspect SP's. I don't agree with Mapes' thought of the division being great, atm.

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The Yankees are the best team in the division right now. If you wanna be the champ, you gotta beat the champ. Until someone proves otherwise, they're it.

The Jays certainly COULD win the east, but realistically they'll be fighting for one of the 2 wild cards.
The Yanks are, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost it this year. Even with the loss of Upton, Tampa Bay still has the best pitching staff in the division.

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Encarnacion doens't suck in the field, he was a 3rd baseman with Cincinati and went to dh after having throwing issues, now that he's playing first base his defence has been stellar with less throwing involved.
He does. He's a - in just about every defensive catagory every single year. he can catch what comes his way, but so can Miguel Cabrera.

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11-18-2012, 06:59 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Jays fans always bring out the division card, but it rarely comes down to that. The division excuse went out the window when the Orioles nearly won the AL East.

The Jays were mired in mediocrity for years because their managers stank. The Jays were mired in mediocrity because Richardi was their GM. Richardi was awful.

I think Jays fans are impatient. Let's see what AA can do long-term before going to the "Division" card. It's clear that they are a rising young team. What matters is the manager though...especially if they hire someone like Tracy, or Acta. Riggelman is fine as long as he doesn't quit on the team mid-season because he doesn't like his contract.
If the Jays consistently won 90+ and missed out, I'd give that argument validity. But when you win 82-86 every year and finish 10+ behind 1st place, I don't buy it.

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11-18-2012, 07:17 PM
  #145
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The last time the Marlins sold their star players to an AL East team, that AL East team won the division and the World Series...

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11-18-2012, 07:29 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Look, the Jays haven't missed the playoffs for 20 years due to their division. They haven't been good enough. Every other team in the division has won the East at least once in that time.
Not saying they would have. I'm clearly talking about right now

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11-18-2012, 07:36 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
The Yankees aren't the team they used to be right now and the O's probably won't repeat what happened this year. The East didn't exact;y significantly get better

Lol, do you really have faith in Romero. He was absolute garbage this year. Johnson is injury-prone, Buehrle is no more than a 3rd and Morrow still can't consistently go deep in games.

Also, no depth.

He's a dh who can fill in at 3rd and 1st. He sucks in the field.

His speed only matters for where he plays best; The outfield. He isn't a great 2nd baseman.

They added 5 talented players and a lot of payroll, they will probably win more games, but they still have holes.
Yankees are still very good. They just don't dominate like they used to.

Romero should put up a sub 4 ERA and is likely their number 3. 1 year doesn't define a player. Did you give up on Dunn too? Morrow could have an ERA under 3, Buehrle could have numbers like Romero (sub 4) and JJ is one of the better pitchers but yes, is injury prone. But if he stays healthy, they have 4 quality starters that is good depth and Haap isn't bad either.

Pretty much every team has holes..

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11-18-2012, 07:44 PM
  #148
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Yankees are still very good. They just don't dominate like they used to.
Do you really think so? They're losing Swisher, maybe Kuroda and who knows what they'll get out of A-Rod. Jeter is coming off an injury, which will likely hinder him at a position he already has no range at. Pineda will miss another season and Soriano is likely gone. The Yanks have serious question marks at this time.

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Romero should put up a sub 4 ERA and is likely their number 3. 1 year doesn't define a player.
Why should he? He won't if he has another season of 1/1 SO/BB.

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Did you give up on Dunn too?
Dunn was injured and had issues with Guillen. 2 totally different scenarios involving 2 completely different players.

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Morrow could have an ERA under 3, Buehrle could have numbers like Romero (sub 4) and JJ is one of the better pitchers but yes, is injury prone
Maybe, but that's quite a bit to expect. Time will tell.

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But if he stays healthy, they have 4 quality starters that is good depth and Haap isn't bad either.
I simply can't call Romero a quality pitcher until he looks like the guy from 2010. There have been a lot of young pitchers with 2-3 good years to start a career who then flame out.

Happ is the definition of Average. He's nothing more than a long guy/filler.

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Pretty much every team has holes..
That is true. Some more than others.

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11-18-2012, 07:46 PM
  #149
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Not saying they would have. I'm clearly talking about right now
Which I disagree. The only team that has improved their roster so far is the Jays.

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11-18-2012, 07:55 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Well, yeah, he is a talented pitcher with world class stuff. But, if he lands on the DL at some point (which is likely), how are the Jays going to fill in for him?
He's been relatively healthy 3 out of the last 4 years. No doubt that if he goes down it'll be tough to fill, but given that we got 2 big league pitchers and only gave up 1, everyone was bumped down the depth chart at least one spot.. I also wouldn't rule out signing another veteran for insurance. Happ is supposed to be the 5th starter and broke his leg last year, Romero had elbow surgery, Morrow missed time with injury and JJ hasn't exactly been an iron man. Buehrle is the only reliable guy we have now, and even he's aging so I don't know how willing I would be to bet on 200+ IP from him.

I would honestly be suprised if AA didn't sign a veteran 4-5 guy, or possibly a long reliever who can make spot starts if needed.
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
I don't agree with the thought that he had to put the team in his shoulders in his 1 start every 5 days. If he actually believes that he had to, he's got mentality issues.

Also, his strikeout total was significantly lower than previous seasons while his already enormous BB/IP totals went way up. He has to prove it again.
I can't even argue how bad Romero was last year, he was downright awful.. But I think with the added support around him, he'll rebound
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
He doesn't make many errors at 1st, but he doesn't have great range, either. 1st base isn't like it used to be where you could stick a big, power hitter with no arm. Every 1st baseman is expected to be able to throw now.
I think he moves pretty well for a big man, and he does have a good arm, just isn't accurate at times... He struggled at times getting off a quick throw and putting it on target from 3rd. I really like him at 1st base.
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
He averaged 5.93 innings/start. Which is much better than what he has done in the past. But, he needs to be able to go 6.25-6-5 to really help his team out and take a load off the bullpen.
If I'm not mistaken, he wasn't allowed to go past 6 after he returned from injury.. A few times he had gems going and was still pulled after 6.

Theres no stamina issues with a healthy Brandon Morrow. I'd argue he's the staff ace, even with a healthy JJ and rebounded Ricky Romero.

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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
I agree. The Jays are the only team in the division to improve upon their roster, so far. The Yankees have a lot of question marks. The Rays are losing one of their best offensive players and the O's haven't done anything to improve their suspect SP's. I don't agree with Mapes' thought of the division being great, atm.
It is great though? The best, if not second best in baseball?
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
The Yanks are, but I wouldn't be surprised if they lost it this year. Even with the loss of Upton, Tampa Bay still has the best pitching staff in the division.
They had the best pitching staff last year too, with Upton. Didn't they lose like 9 games 1-0 last year? They'll be hard pressed to score runs. Can a team with the best or near best ERA still be successful when they're one of the worst offensive teams? I guess we'll see.

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