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Rank by Highest Peak: Iginla vs Thornton vs Alfredson vs Elias

View Poll Results: Who had the highest career peak?
Jarome Iginla 39 18.75%
Joe Thornton 159 76.44%
Daniel Alfredsson 6 2.88%
Patrik Elias 4 1.92%
Voters: 208. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-17-2012, 07:00 PM
  #51
MeowLeafs
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I'm a leafs fan and I would definitely put Alfie above Elias.

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11-17-2012, 07:11 PM
  #52
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This is an AINEC

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11-17-2012, 07:12 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post

If you don't mean the assist (back-2-back 90 assists?) which would be weird since he was nowhere near Gretzky/Lemieux level.
Whether he was on their level is irrelevant. He did something only the two of them have also done, which is why his name is brought up with theirs pertaining to assists in a season.

Quote:
It is just an arbitrary line which has nothing to do with either Gretzky or Lemieux.
Except it does. The other poster implied that Thornton's name is brought up because of those seasons, which directly involve Gretzky and Lemieux's from the past.

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Old
11-17-2012, 07:16 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Lol... Alfredsson was the main reason that line functioned the way it did.

Of all the players mentioned, at their peaks, Alfredsson is the best all-around player. An all-around player scoring 100 points is pretty ****ing amazing.

Thornton
Alfredsson
Iginla
Elias
Homer much?

Jumbo Joe
Iggy
Alfredsson
Elias

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Old
11-17-2012, 07:40 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
It could be argued that he was unarguably the best player on that line. But this is typical and an example of why he was considered one of the more underrated players in the league at that time.

He's 3rd on this list.
That's actually logically incorrect, if you have to argue that something is unarguable, it means it is actually arguable.

Elias actually had the better offensive season when you consider league-wide scoring in the years which they posted their top seasons, and that was as the leading scorer on his team by 13 points, versus Alfie who was on a stacked line.

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11-17-2012, 08:14 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
The whole "exclude the year after the lock-out" argument doesn't make any sense. It's not like Iginla didn't play that year. Nothing was stopping him from taking advantage of the rule changes.
Didn't you hear iginla took that season off too, only thing that could explain his dismal 67 points in 82 games in what should be excluded because it was so high scoring of a year.

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Old
11-17-2012, 08:59 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
That's actually logically incorrect, if you have to argue that something is unarguable, it means it is actually arguable.

Elias actually had the better offensive season when you consider league-wide scoring in the years which they posted their top seasons, and that was as the leading scorer on his team by 13 points, versus Alfie who was on a stacked line.
Elias was easily the 3rd best forward in 2000-2001. Can the same be said for Alfredsson in 2005-2006?

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11-17-2012, 09:02 PM
  #58
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I'd like to point out that the year Alfredsson scored 103 points, he was also a finalist for the Selke Trophy.

I think if you want to look at just one year, I can understand the argument for Elias. Combine two? I'd take Alfredsson...especially since he was the best forward in 2007 playoffs.

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Old
11-17-2012, 09:05 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
how about thornton's 3rd best season way back in 2002-03 with 36 goals, 65 assists, 101 points (still better then iginla's). people see the 125 point and say oh that was in a high scoring period. but just forget thornton was putting up great numbers even before the lockout happened. and still is putting up great numbers 77 points in 82 games is pretty good.

thornton's lowest point total in his career outside of his rookie and sophmore years (where thornton was a 4th line goon, and a 3rd line checker) was a 60 point campaign.

even if we go pre-lockout, thornton wins the best peak (which wasn't even his peak lol).
Goals are worth more than assists IMO. I would give Iggy the nod for pre-lockout. I really like Thornton so I don't know why you are trying to justify numbers all throughout his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
The whole "exclude the year after the lock-out" argument doesn't make any sense. It's not like Iginla didn't play that year. Nothing was stopping him from taking advantage of the rule changes.
Meh, I really don't have a horse in this race and I don't care if people think Thornton had a better peak than Iggy, they could easily be right.

All I'm saying is that 52 goals in pre-lockout with scrubs impresses me more than Thornton's big assist years right after the lockout when the game was being called in a completely different way than it has been over the course of the two players' careers. Its close though, Iggy's is just slightly better IMO.

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Old
11-17-2012, 09:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Elias was easily the 3rd best forward in 2000-2001. Can the same be said for Alfredsson in 2005-2006?
I don't think so. Thornton, Jagr, Ovechkin, Crosby and Staal all had more impressive seasons IMO.

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11-17-2012, 09:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
Goals are worth more than assists IMO. I would give Iggy the nod for pre-lockout. I really like Thornton so I don't know why you are trying to justify numbers all throughout his career.



Meh, I really don't have a horse in this race and I don't care if people think Thornton had a better peak than Iggy, they could easily be right.

All I'm saying is that 52 goals in pre-lockout with scrubs impresses me more than Thornton's big assist years right after the lockout when the game was being called in a completely different way than it has been over the course of the two players' careers. Its close though, Iggy's is just slightly better IMO.
You do not watch thornton i can tell right now, the majority of thorntons assists are basically give me's for the receiver.

Thornton pre-2 years ago was his line, if he didn't have the puck on his stick there was almost 0 chance the puck was going to end up in the back of the net. Just ask cheechoo, who in his final good season 35 goals, thornton assisted on 32 of them.

Same as thorntons 96 assist season he ended the season with something crazy like 85% of his assists being primary assists.

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Old
11-18-2012, 12:22 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Litework View Post
Elias was easily the 3rd best forward in 2000-2001. Can the same be said for Alfredsson in 2005-2006?
I'd have to disagree with that. Bure had 59 goals on a garbage Florida team and Forsberg was his normal beastly self. I'd rank them above Elias that year.

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11-18-2012, 01:21 AM
  #63
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If all these players were 18 and i had a chance to pick any.

I'd pick Alfie 11/10 times.

It's hard to explain, but he is literally a GOD in Ottawa.

If he ever killed someone , and was on the run. I'd be the first harbor him in my house. As i am sure all sens fan would.

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11-18-2012, 01:22 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
I'd have to disagree with that. Bure had 59 goals on a garbage Florida team and Forsberg was his normal beastly self. I'd rank them above Elias that year.
Bure maybe, but Forsberg's season is less impressive when you consider a teammate of his had 29 more points than him.

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Old
11-18-2012, 04:14 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Clowe Me View Post
Whether he was on their level is irrelevant. He did something only the two of them have also done, which is why his name is brought up with theirs pertaining to assists in a season.

Except it does. The other poster implied that Thornton's name is brought up because of those seasons, which directly involve Gretzky and Lemieux's from the past.
But it makes no sense. 90 assists is an arbitrary line. (impressive still)

Adam Oates has been 12 times top-10 in assists. No one is going to imply that he is "mentioned in the same sentence as Gretzky and Lemieux".

I know that technically you are right, but your wording is something that is usually not used in that context which makes it seem odd. You try to make an illusion that Thornton's playmaking is on the same level as Gretzky's and Lemieux's. Which is obviously not true.

It just creates the wrong kind of image.

Look, i don't want to bash Thornton and he was my number one choice. I just find it misleading to suggest the thing in a way you did.

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11-18-2012, 10:19 AM
  #66
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I take iginla. he did more on the ice at both ends with physicality and captained his team to an unexpected cup run without much help from his team mates.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:28 AM
  #67
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Thornton
Iginla
Alfredsson
Elias

Thornton is best playmaker, Iginla is best goal scorer, Alfredsson is best all around player, and Elias is best defensively.

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Old
11-18-2012, 10:42 AM
  #68
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Prime?

Thornton

Iginla



Elias
Alfredsson

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11-18-2012, 04:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I Hate Jay Feaster View Post
Thornton
Iginla
Alfredsson
Elias

Thornton is best playmaker, Iginla is best goal scorer, Alfredsson is best all around player, and Elias is best defensively.
Elias had a more impressive offensive season than Alfredsson ever has so if he's the best defensively he should be ahead of Alfredsson by default (when we're looking at peaks).

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11-18-2012, 04:46 PM
  #70
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Thornton
Iginla
Alfredsson
Elias

To the poster above me, Alfredsson was better offensively in his prime than Elias and I also happen to think he was better defensively as well.

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11-18-2012, 06:02 PM
  #71
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Alfredsson is interesting. His peak was high enough at 103 points...but it's how long his peak was.

1999-2000...57-21-37-59 (1.04)
2000-2001...68-24-46-70 (1.03)
2001-2002...78-37-34-71 (0.91)
2002-2003...78-27-51-78 (1.00)
2003-2004...77-32-48-80 (1.04)
LOCKOUT
2005-2006...77-43-60-103 (1.34)
2006-2007...77-29-58-87 (1.13)
2007-2008...70-40-49-89 (1.27)

2008-2009...79-24-50-74 (0.94)
2009-2010...70-20-51-71 (1.01)

-If the bold is his peak, that is a pretty good peak.
-He hit a point a game or more 7 out of 8 years,and 8 out of 10(5 of those years being in the dead puck era) all while being one of the best defensive forwards during that time. The year he didn't hit it, he got 37 goals.

I also think people are putting iginla much higher because he's canadian and a tough player. Whatever advantage iginla has in the goal scoring department is made up by alfredsson in the playmaking department. Offensively speaking, iginla has no advanatage over alfredsson. Their career numbers are very similar. Offensively, they are equals with the edge to iginla in scoring, and alfredsson in playmaking. Defensively, you could make a case for either one. But i'm pretty sure alfredsson has gotten more selke nominations. I'll have to double check. I would say edge to alfredsson.

So what's left? Well, iginla hits more, and will drop the gloves, and he's canadian. So we'll go with iginla is out of alfredssons league.

I get the edge to iginla. I really do. The physical presence can make a difference. But not THAT much of a difference that anyone who choses one over the other is crazy.

Alfredsson can turn todd white into a 60 point player, or mcheachern into a 72 point player. I would say alfredsson did a better job at making his linemates better.

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Old
11-18-2012, 06:49 PM
  #72
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elias puts up 70 to 80 points consistently while being great in the defensive end as well

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11-18-2012, 08:25 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
elias puts up 70 to 80 points consistently while being great in the defensive end as well
Yup. Elias is good too, but not as good offensively. Don't forget alfredsson played for jacques martin most of his career so it's not like only elias played under defensive coaches. Yet elias only hit a point a game 3 times. alfredsson? 8 times.

This coming from someone who got an elias jersey before he got an alfredsson jersey.

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11-18-2012, 09:56 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by jbeck5 View Post
Yup. Elias is good too, but not as good offensively. Don't forget alfredsson played for jacques martin most of his career so it's not like only elias played under defensive coaches. Yet elias only hit a point a game 3 times. alfredsson? 8 times.

This coming from someone who got an elias jersey before he got an alfredsson jersey.
Well the Senators were better offensively than defensively under Martin.

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11-18-2012, 10:30 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
I'd have to disagree with that. Bure had 59 goals on a garbage Florida team and Forsberg was his normal beastly self. I'd rank them above Elias that year.
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Bure maybe, but Forsberg's season is less impressive when you consider a teammate of his had 29 more points than him.
Bure had 59 goals, but only 92 points in 82. Elias had 40 goals and 96 points, also in 82. The defensive difference between the two makes up the "goal gap" easily. Forsberg posted 89 points in 73 games, which is only marginally higher PPG than Elias. But Forsberg only scored 27 goals, and defensively Elias was the better player. I rank Elias as the 4th-best forward that season, behind Lemieux (76 in 43 at age 35 with a bad back) Jagr, and Sakic.

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