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Alec Martinez

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Old
11-19-2012, 04:45 PM
  #51
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Kings are better off keeping him for now. I think his value will really increase next season. By then, we can flip him and replace him with Hickey. Maximize the asset.

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11-19-2012, 07:54 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I think that in the hf forums most people tend to look at stats and not really see each player play and base value off that ( not saying u do or don't) They simply can't see every game of every team This is the case when it comes to alec people simple need to see him play to realize hes got more potential then a 6th defenseman. He is just settleing in a a regualar because over the last couple years the kings been trying to find him a spot to play regually. People also need to take this into consideration.La has alot of great defenseman not his fault he s not getting the mins his talent deserves. This is also a value thread not what he ll get thread big difference between the two.
Just a question but what would you say the value of Adam McQuaid is? or Peter Harrold? or Aaron Rome? Those are all guys that played similar minutes to Martinez on a team that made it to the SCF. Ok Martinez is younger than Rome or Harrold, but would you give up a lot for either guy? If not maybe you are just basing it on stats and you haven't seen enough of them to really be sure.

I'd say McQuaid is more valuable than Martinez and I certainly wouldn't expect anything more than a 2nd for him. Don't know why you seem to think Martinez is worth all that much.

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11-19-2012, 08:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Just a question but what would you say the value of Adam McQuaid is? or Peter Harrold? or Aaron Rome? Those are all guys that played similar minutes to Martinez on a team that made it to the SCF. Ok Martinez is younger than Rome or Harrold, but would you give up a lot for either guy? If not maybe you are just basing it on stats and you haven't seen enough of them to really be sure.

I'd say McQuaid is more valuable than Martinez and I certainly wouldn't expect anything more than a 2nd for him. Don't know why you seem to think Martinez is worth all that much.
well out of the 3 names i saw there only one i ve seen play enuff to say would be Harrold and thats only because i saw him as a king. I wouldnt give you a 5th for him. He doesn't have near the defensive or offense of martinez this is part of the reason hes no longer in la. He can play 13 th forward role and 7 th defenseman decent enuff but to me hes not a player that would be on a stanley cup defense.

Ok you asked me why i value Martinez so much. Frist off i'll again bring up his ability to join the rush without getting burned. I can't remember him joining the rush where the kings got burned by this. There were times this year on the power where he was the only one getting his shot thru from the point. All this was happening when he was getting stratched to get slava on the ice to prove he was worthy of us tradeing jack. To me he has the ability to play bigger minutes. Hes just blocked by the fact the kings play a offensive defenseman with a defensive defenseman. He stuck behind Slava and Drew not his fault there just better then him. I think of him as a 3/4 defenseman. Personally as much as i like salva id rather see alec on the pp. I think if he got more time on there he would easily put of 30 35 points a year. I think his consistency on the pp would help us better the teams weakest area.

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11-19-2012, 08:28 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Just a question but what would you say the value of Adam McQuaid is? or Peter Harrold? or Aaron Rome? Those are all guys that played similar minutes to Martinez on a team that made it to the SCF. Ok Martinez is younger than Rome or Harrold, but would you give up a lot for either guy? If not maybe you are just basing it on stats and you haven't seen enough of them to really be sure.

I'd say McQuaid is more valuable than Martinez and I certainly wouldn't expect anything more than a 2nd for him. Don't know why you seem to think Martinez is worth all that much.
ok i ve sorta looked into McQuaid vs Martinez i think that would depend on what kinda defenseman ur looking for if ur looking offensive defenseman u take alec if ur looking phyiscal u take McQuaid Its a apples to oranges comparing


the rome comparison is the same two different defenseman rome would be more of a hitting defenseman and alec ur puck moving. More apples to oranges comparing,

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11-19-2012, 08:29 PM
  #55
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Martinez has too much potential to be pigeon-holed into a 3rd pairing spot. He just finished his second NHL season and won the Cup for chrissakes. The Greene/Martinez pairing outplayed the Mitchell/Voynov unit over the last two rounds in the playoffs - it's not like either of them is a Stu Bickel that needed to be protected.

He's on target to be a 2nd pairing, 2nd PP unit, solid puck-moving blueliner with a good, hard low shot. Most teams in the league could use a guy like that, LA included. If his value now is the only measure, a late 2nd rounder is probably the high water mark. Give him another year or two - he will definitely be a regular in the league - and his value will be more apparent.

No reason to move him now because you don't spend 3 or 4 years to develop a player, only to see him progress at solid rate, then dump him to replenish the system. No current AHL King prospect is likely to surpass what they are already getting from Alec. He's a keeper.

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11-20-2012, 03:25 PM
  #56
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AMart isn't worth the headache to trade at this point. LA is locked in at D currently. they have to also look at who is coming off the books next year in Greene and Scuds. iirc Willie expires the following year. the damn lockout has me fuzzy on contracts at this point....damn that Bettman troll.

with three very experienced vet D-men possibly leaving in the next two seasons, LA will likely look at not moving the three young studs they have in DD, Slava and AMart. in a few years the responsibility will be placed on their shoulders to bring along the next gen of defenders.

didn't see it mentioned in this thread, but this situation reminds me of the early 90s for LA and the values assigned to three young promising D-Men. Blake, Zhitnik and Sydor. Blake was the clear #1 of the future (DD), Zhitnik was the hot young mobile defender (Slava) and Sydor was the overlooked/under appreciated guy that seemed to do it all (AMart). more importantly is that AMart's game is very similar to Sydor's and some people are saying he's a bottom pairing D-man. so be it. we're happy to keep him in LA, while your D corp fumbles and bumbles its way along


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11-20-2012, 07:57 PM
  #57
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Again, I think the Rangers have interest with our pathetic PP at the right price.

Anyone want to throw out reasonable returns?

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11-20-2012, 09:11 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Again, I think the Rangers have interest with our pathetic PP at the right price.

Anyone want to throw out reasonable returns?
I would think a 2nd and J T Miller or Marek Hrivik but thats this king fan opinion. I'm not sure any other king fan would do that.

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11-20-2012, 10:39 PM
  #59
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He plays third pair because he's young and LA has a ton good defensemen. But on the PP he was playing first unit with Doughty.

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11-21-2012, 05:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I would think a 2nd and J T Miller or Marek Hrivik but thats this king fan opinion. I'm not sure any other king fan would do that.
Your proposal is a little too much premium, which I understand and having no problem with you asking, in that JT MIller is a 1st rounder.

Krivik is still high with that 2nd, but closer.

I'm thinking more like Rangers 3rd and St. Croix, who I believe they got for Grachev, and I think with his results to date and upside that's more than another 3rd in value against what they gave up for him. (I think Grachev was a 3rd.)

I suspect some combination could work.

Remains to be seen.

At this point I give AMart a 3 in 4 chance to not be a victim of the numbers and moved. Things, however, are subject to developments.

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11-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Your proposal is a little too much premium, which I understand and having no problem with you asking, in that JT MIller is a 1st rounder.

Krivik is still high with that 2nd, but closer.

I'm thinking more like Rangers 3rd and St. Croix, who I believe they got for Grachev, and I think with his results to date and upside that's more than another 3rd in value against what they gave up for him. (I think Grachev was a 3rd.)

I suspect some combination could work.

Remains to be seen.

At this point I give AMart a 3 in 4 chance to not be a victim of the numbers and moved. Things, however, are subject to developments.

My reasoning (which maybe flawed) is the kings need a top 6 lw which i project miller and Hrivik to be. The reason top 6 lw is the rangers has both nash and Kreider so in my mind there not much of a chance that they would knock out either. So losing one of the two wouldnt hurt that much. Both seem stuck behind star type players. Alec as i ve stated above in my opinion is a 2nd line pp running future defenseman so a 2nd and a prospect that isnt going to make ur team seems more reasonable price. The kings have very little need for a center no offense to St. Croix but the kings have kopitar richards stoll fraser lewis in place right now with carter lewis nolon loktinov all waiting to play the center spot which is there natural postion.

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11-21-2012, 07:22 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
. we're happy to keep him in LA, while your D corp fumbles and bumbles its way along
My D corps is just fine thanks, and Martinez would be 7th on it. Like I said, McQuaid is a similar age, also was 6th in minutes on a Cup winning team and is a better player than Martinez. This idea that because a guy happened to play 14 minutes a game on a team that had 14 more important and better players doesn't increase his value a ton. He's a decent 6th dman, but really not much better than the avg 6th in the league.

Just like Boston won the Cup because of Thomas, Chara, Bergeron etc, and not McQuaid, LA won because of Kopitar, Richards, Quick, Doughty, et al. Replace Martinez with just about any other 6th dman in the league and they still win the Cup.

Decent player, keep him, but he's honestly nothing special.

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11-21-2012, 07:55 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
My D corps is just fine thanks, and Martinez would be 7th on it. Like I said, McQuaid is a similar age, also was 6th in minutes on a Cup winning team and is a better player than Martinez. This idea that because a guy happened to play 14 minutes a game on a team that had 14 more important and better players doesn't increase his value a ton. He's a decent 6th dman, but really not much better than the avg 6th in the league.

Just like Boston won the Cup because of Thomas, Chara, Bergeron etc, and not McQuaid, LA won because of Kopitar, Richards, Quick, Doughty, et al. Replace Martinez with just about any other 6th dman in the league and they still win the Cup.

Decent player, keep him, but he's honestly nothing special.
i totally disagre and will go so far as to say without alec's talent the kings wouldnt have made the playoff if u replace him with say harold from nj of other finalist. I say this with confidence due to the fact that alex is twice the defenseman defensively and offensively. I have seen harold play alot on the kings he was let go due to alec being alot better (even drewski for that matter is) So dont even go there with any 6th defenseman
As for ur not seeing Alec 's talent thats ur right but when in a year or two when hes playing 2nd line minutes and proving me right I would hope u would come back to me and be man enuff to say u were wrong and if in a year or two im not right and he isn't playing it i will admit i was wrong. Him making 2nd line mins on a team would mean i was right hes not a 5 6 th defense.

I will not try and state where he would be in ur lineup, Each team sets up there defense in a different way and im not as bold as to say what he would fit in. As stated above by whiskeypete the kings have 3 young offensive defense that remind us fans of Blake, Zhitnik and Sydor only thing is alec has way more upside offensive then sydor imo.

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11-22-2012, 01:06 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
My reasoning (which maybe flawed) is the kings need a top 6 lw which i project miller and Hrivik to be. The reason top 6 lw is the rangers has both nash and Kreider so in my mind there not much of a chance that they would knock out either. So losing one of the two wouldnt hurt that much. Both seem stuck behind star type players. Alec as i ve stated above in my opinion is a 2nd line pp running future defenseman so a 2nd and a prospect that isnt going to make ur team seems more reasonable price. The kings have very little need for a center no offense to St. Croix but the kings have kopitar richards stoll fraser lewis in place right now with carter lewis nolon loktinov all waiting to play the center spot which is there natural postion.
How about this:
given your comments that I bolded, something around Stepan who is an established 2C, which is a substitute or a trade for that top 6 LW.

Of course, you would have to add substantially.
Do you have any firsts higher than your own?

So possibly a 1st and Tanner Pearson and Alec Martinez
for Stepan, maybe add a middle prospect based on the projected positioning of that first?

Even then, despite undeniable need on our end for shot for PP, not sure most Ranger fans would agree this is enough, or if they are ok with the value, they still do it. Risky, with upside depending upon how Pearson will make out....

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11-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How about this:
given your comments that I bolded, something around Stepan who is an established 2C, which is a substitute or a trade for that top 6 LW.

Of course, you would have to add substantially.
Do you have any firsts higher than your own?

So possibly a 1st and Tanner Pearson and Alec Martinez
for Stepan, maybe add a middle prospect based on the projected positioning of that first?

Even then, despite undeniable need on our end for shot for PP, not sure most Ranger fans would agree this is enough, or if they are ok with the value, they still do it. Risky, with upside depending upon how Pearson will make out....
The current group of centers playing for the Kings:
Kopitar
Richards
Stoll
Carter
Fraser
Lewis
Richardson
Loktionov

Acquiring another center not expected/needed.


Last edited by Minor Boarding: 11-22-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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11-22-2012, 03:39 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
How about this:
given your comments that I bolded, something around Stepan who is an established 2C, which is a substitute or a trade for that top 6 LW.

Of course, you would have to add substantially.
Do you have any firsts higher than your own?

So possibly a 1st and Tanner Pearson and Alec Martinez
for Stepan, maybe add a middle prospect based on the projected positioning of that first?

Even then, despite undeniable need on our end for shot for PP, not sure most Ranger fans would agree this is enough, or if they are ok with the value, they still do it. Risky, with upside depending upon how Pearson will make out....
I think u misunderstood the kings wouldn't want any center in a trade they have great depth in the postion. The only thing the kings need is a young scoring lw. The kings are happy with mike richards as there 2nd center so i reject any trade that has a center in it instantly. Pearson was just drafted by la and not available for trade as hes one of the few natural lws we have coming. Just fyi also the kings dont have a 1st round pick in this coming draft.So to get back to the trade its a 2nd and either millar or Hrivik. With nash playing number one left wing and Kreider on ur 2nd line you dont have room to put both on the main roster so i dont see why they arent available.

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11-22-2012, 06:22 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Just a question but what would you say the value of Adam McQuaid is? or Peter Harrold? or Aaron Rome? Those are all guys that played similar minutes to Martinez on a team that made it to the SCF. Ok Martinez is younger than Rome or Harrold, but would you give up a lot for either guy? If not maybe you are just basing it on stats and you haven't seen enough of them to really be sure.

I'd say McQuaid is more valuable than Martinez and I certainly wouldn't expect anything more than a 2nd for him. Don't know why you seem to think Martinez is worth all that much.
Martinez is a good young player with upside. He is a far better dman than Rome or Harrold.

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11-23-2012, 10:33 AM
  #68
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Amart is like many players on the 'other' teams. unless you're an avid LA fan then you won't really know what he brings and what he means to the team. i couldn't tell you this about 99% of the #5 & 6 Dmen on the other teams.

each guy out there has been tagged as a better solution than the next guy down the depth chart. this holds true in every organization and unless you are in player development or a scout, most of us armchair GM's have no clue about other teams players that far down the depth charts.

as i said earlier, LA fans like what we have in Amart and he gives us very good minutes with the ability to step up into more if needed due to injury. until any of the kids in Manchester begins to truly begin showing they are ready, like Slava did last season, AMart is THE best choice for LA in that slot.

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11-23-2012, 06:12 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Minor Boarding View Post
The current group of centers playing for the Kings:
Kopitar
Richards
Stoll
Carter
Fraser
Lewis
Richardson
Loktionov

Acquiring another center not expected/needed.
Totally agree, and no dis(s) on your fine C corp, congrats on the Cup btw.

The point was that Stepan would yield a top LW --- other players maybe involved depending upon how premium that LW is, but that was my point.

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11-23-2012, 06:14 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
Amart is like many players on the 'other' teams. unless you're an avid LA fan then you won't really know what he brings and what he means to the team. i couldn't tell you this about 99% of the #5 & 6 Dmen on the other teams.

each guy out there has been tagged as a better solution than the next guy down the depth chart. this holds true in every organization and unless you are in player development or a scout, most of us armchair GM's have no clue about other teams players that far down the depth charts.

as i said earlier, LA fans like what we have in Amart and he gives us very good minutes with the ability to step up into more if needed due to injury. until any of the kids in Manchester begins to truly begin showing they are ready, like Slava did last season, AMart is THE best choice for LA in that slot.
A Mart will only go if a victim of #s, and odds remain likely against that.

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11-23-2012, 06:21 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I think u misunderstood the kings wouldn't want any center in a trade they have great depth in the postion. The only thing the kings need is a young scoring lw. The kings are happy with mike richards as there 2nd center so i reject any trade that has a center in it instantly. Pearson was just drafted by la and not available for trade as hes one of the few natural lws we have coming. Just fyi also the kings dont have a 1st round pick in this coming draft.So to get back to the trade its a 2nd and either millar or Hrivik. With nash playing number one left wing and Kreider on ur 2nd line you dont have room to put both on the main roster so i dont see why they arent available.
As said, miller + 2nd is too much, IMO --- not outrageously unreasonable, but too much.

good value i think is 3rd and prospect. This guy Hrivik shows a lot of promise, which is why you cleverly and properly targeted him, kudos my friend.

I am not opposed to moving Hrivik especially given our deplorable PP, but I'm not jumping on let's go there yesterday 'cause I think Hrivik is a guy with, maybe not major, major upside, but enough upside we shouldn't be too quick to move him impulsively.

How about a different tack?

Rangers 1st for AMart and Kings 2nd?
Something like that?
Or is that too much to go from end-ish of 2nd to end-ish of 1st?

If so, maybe
Rangers 2nd and a throw in for AMart and Kings 3rd?

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11-23-2012, 10:56 PM
  #72
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As said, miller + 2nd is too much, IMO --- not outrageously unreasonable, but too much.

good value i think is 3rd and prospect. This guy Hrivik shows a lot of promise, which is why you cleverly and properly targeted him, kudos my friend.

I am not opposed to moving Hrivik especially given our deplorable PP, but I'm not jumping on let's go there yesterday 'cause I think Hrivik is a guy with, maybe not major, major upside, but enough upside we shouldn't be too quick to move him impulsively.

How about a different tack?

Rangers 1st for AMart and Kings 2nd?
Something like that?
Or is that too much to go from end-ish of 2nd to end-ish of 1st?

If so, maybe
Rangers 2nd and a throw in for AMart and Kings 3rd?


I thank you for ur kudos and agree he does show some promise. I would be willing to add a small piece to alec for milliar . How about millar and a 4th or choice of oscar mollars rights, David Meckler and Stefan Legein for Miller and 2nd

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11-23-2012, 11:08 PM
  #73
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Isn't AMart on the left side, though? This is not meant to be a knock on him at all, but why on earth would the Rangers even consider giving up high end pieces (Stepan, the 1st, Miller) for a player who has zero chance of cracking the lineup on his natural side? He's a nice player, but he's not close to the three LD the Rangers currently have on the roster (Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto). The Rangers aren't going to deal from their biggest weakness (forward depth) to shore up their greatest strength (LD).

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11-23-2012, 11:14 PM
  #74
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A. Mart would be top 4 on most teams.

You guys don't know ****

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11-23-2012, 11:25 PM
  #75
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Isn't AMart on the left side, though? This is not meant to be a knock on him at all, but why on earth would the Rangers even consider giving up high end pieces (Stepan, the 1st, Miller) for a player who has zero chance of cracking the lineup on his natural side? He's a nice player, but he's not close to the three LD the Rangers currently have on the roster (Staal, McDonagh, Del Zotto). The Rangers aren't going to deal from their biggest weakness (forward depth) to shore up their greatest strength (LD).
First things frist this king fan isnt asking for a frist or stepan so no worries there. The only reason i ask miller is i see hime as a player stuck behind two better top six players(Nash and Kreider ) so no real shot to even make you team.

As for a reason as to why trade for him with 3 other better players, I notice del zotto is a rfa right now maybe hes asking to much money to fit within a budjects? Alec is a cheaper contract for a couple more years. Also maybe Staal isn't ready to come back Just a few thoughts as to why

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