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The Star: Maple Leafs might be better off without a season

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Old
11-17-2012, 03:26 PM
  #51
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Losing Connolly, Bozak, Lombardi, Steckel and CMac all for nothing could really set this franchise back in terms of organizational assets. It appears that Burke planned on trading most of these players this season as our prospects worked their way into the lineup. Everybody trashes a guy like Connolly but he'd most likely bring a 2nd rounder at the deadline. Same with CMac. Same with Bozak. Lombardi could also potentially bring a 2nd if he got his career back on track this season. That is a lot of extra picks to add to the organization.[/QUOTE]

Please tell me you aren't being serious here! Connolly at most would IMO fetch as a 2nd rounder, Lombardi lol he might get us a 5th or 6th, Steckel same deal as Lombardi IMO, Cmac based on his value a 2nd rounder. Really these clowns you listed are so easily replaceable its not even funny, Kadri can easily replace Connolly, Frattin would take Mac's spot, Mcclement is Steckel reincarnated and Lombardi him leaving is no punishment to the team. Actually losing these ballerinias HELPS open up spots for more deserving NHL'ers that would show more heart and soul then these clowns would know what to do with.

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11-17-2012, 03:28 PM
  #52
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Every team has players they'll lose for nothing because of the lockout.

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11-17-2012, 03:34 PM
  #53
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If a top draft pick needs two or three years of minor pro experience in the Carolina or Detroit or New Jersey system, he gets it. No big deal. In Toronto, Nazem Kadri’s presence on the Marlies roster is treated as though he is a persecuted political prisoner.
one of the rare occasions I agree with Cox.

the rest is pretty much his normal toronto trolling.

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11-17-2012, 03:35 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Leafs will be 1 of only 4 teams with 3 balls if they do the same system.

I feel that is a better chance than if they play. Hell, they were a playoff team last year for as long as they could have a season this year.
The leafs had a batter chance of drafting first overall last year before the lottery than they would after a lottery for a missed season.

The worst the leafs could draft last season was 6th the worst they could draft if there was a missed season is 30th.

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11-17-2012, 03:42 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
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Losing Connolly, Bozak, Lombardi, Steckel and CMac all for nothing could really set this franchise back in terms of organizational assets. It appears that Burke planned on trading most of these players this season as our prospects worked their way into the lineup. Everybody trashes a guy like Connolly but he'd most likely bring a 2nd rounder at the deadline. Same with CMac. Same with Bozak. Lombardi could also potentially bring a 2nd if he got his career back on track this season. That is a lot of extra picks to add to the organization.
Please tell me you aren't being serious here! Connolly at most would IMO fetch as a 2nd rounder, Lombardi lol he might get us a 5th or 6th, Steckel same deal as Lombardi IMO, Cmac based on his value a 2nd rounder. Really these clowns you listed are so easily replaceable its not even funny, Kadri can easily replace Connolly, Frattin would take Mac's spot, Mcclement is Steckel reincarnated and Lombardi him leaving is no punishment to the team. Actually losing these ballerinias HELPS open up spots for more deserving NHL'ers that would show more heart and soul then these clowns would know what to do with.[/QUOTE]

My argument is that the combination of these players could bring a significant amount of futures to the Leafs instead of just losing them for nothing. It had nothing to do with whether guys like Kadri, Colborne, etc. could replace them.

With parity in the league there are very few players available at the deadline which results in greats returns for the selling team and the Leafs are positioned to sell off quite a few of these (even if we were in a playoff position).

Connolly played 17 minutes a night last season doing everything (ES, PK and PP). To a contender where he'd have a simplified role playing 15 minutes a night he has a lot of value.

Lombardi before his concussion was one of the best third line centers in the league. After one bad season in which he didn't have a full training camp and hadn't played hockey in nearly a year everybody has written him. If he gets back to where he was he can certainly return a 2nd rounder.

Last year at the deadline consider these returns for depth D-low 2nd/good 3rd liners:

Gaustad: 1st round pick
Moore: 2nd round pick
Kubina (whose a bottom dman at this point in his career): 2nd and 4th rounder
Kostitsyn: 2nd, conditional 5th
Wolski (who was benched most of the year by Torts): 3rd rounde

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11-17-2012, 03:57 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Please tell me you aren't being serious here! Connolly at most would IMO fetch as a 2nd rounder, Lombardi lol he might get us a 5th or 6th, Steckel same deal as Lombardi IMO, Cmac based on his value a 2nd rounder. Really these clowns you listed are so easily replaceable its not even funny, Kadri can easily replace Connolly, Frattin would take Mac's spot, Mcclement is Steckel reincarnated and Lombardi him leaving is no punishment to the team. Actually losing these ballerinias HELPS open up spots for more deserving NHL'ers that would show more heart and soul then these clowns would know what to do with.
Frattin replacing CMac's productiveness? Mr. Hands of Stone, 1 goal in 20 games? Mr. 3rd-4th line production with 1st-2nd line icetime? Riight.

Connolly, while his offense seems to be declining, is still a decent defensive player, and was used as such last season. If you think Kadri would be able to take on a #3C "shutdown" role, I don't think you've watched Kadri much at all.

Next, you're going to tell us Colborne will be able to duplicate what Bozak brings to the table, right? Sure, put him out there with Kessel, no worries. I'm sure it could only help his development tossing him in the deep end.

And who's replacing Lupul's production, and his chemistry with Kessel?

McClement replacing Steckel, I'm fine with. If we can get similar FO reliability out of McClement, with more offensive production, I'm not losing any sleep over Steckel walking.

Same with Lombardi, although, losing him for nothing when we could actually get something for him seems like a waste. As the poster said, we have 6 or so contracts expiring, and are at a risk of getting nothing in return for those assets. Even if we get a 3rd rounder on average for each player, that's still 6 3rd rounders more than what we have atm.

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11-17-2012, 04:06 PM
  #57
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I love how a few people talk here like making the playoffs would be worse than finishing bottom 5 again. Like I said in another thread, a few people might be upset if the Leafs win the Cup and pick 30th and not somewhere in the top 5.

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11-17-2012, 05:12 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Morgan Rielly is a top 5 pick, and represents a brighter future for the Leafs as the result of his selection in the entry draft.

Remember when he is leading the Leafs to victory that he doesn't do much for you.

The best thing that is happening for Leaf Nation due to the teams struggles is the bonus of the prospect pool being built up with high selection(s) as a result of the fans enduring the losing. Cox's point is that the lockout is allowing the prospect pool to develop while the NHLers are locked out, which is going to be a long-term benefit.
This couldn't be more truer. Let's be real near the end of last season when things weren't looking so bright losing games was the best thing for the leafs. I don't care what you say but Morgan Reilly > 9th place. Heck I thing getting Reilly is better for the franchise then 8th place.

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11-17-2012, 05:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...t-a-season-cox







who is he referring to when he says this? Schenn maybe? I don't see having Mo Riles in a leafs uni as being a bad thing. why would it hurt him? because he's going to be playing for a struggling team? so what. all young (potential) stars play for bad teams after they are drafted.

anyway, some interesting points.
Cox is generally a moron and Leaf troll.

That said, the one guy who is definitely benefiting from this right now is Kadri. With no NHL happening he doesn't have to feel the pressure of whether he is AHL or NHL etc, he can just play his game and develop

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11-17-2012, 06:04 PM
  #60
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Rielly is coming off an injury is he not? So I highly doubt they'd rush him into the NHL.

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11-17-2012, 06:17 PM
  #61
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Rielly is coming off an injury is he not? So I highly doubt they'd rush him into the NHL.
Have you not seen/heard about his play this year??? He's perfectly fine

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Old
11-17-2012, 06:26 PM
  #62
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I'd rather see him lead Moose Jaw(or another team he might get traded to) and play in the WJC regardless of how he plays in camp. He needs a full season of playing 20+ minutes a night, something he's not used to.

And as someone said in this thread, the contracts will expire whether or not a season is played, and not to mention those guys on may be traded(or bought out if there's an amnesty clause).

And as for the lottery, if they're going to be bad again this year, might as well play and end up in the top 5.

Yeah, there's literally no benefit for the Leafs if there's a lockout.

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11-17-2012, 06:28 PM
  #63
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At this point, with the Jays and Raptors even though they aren't doing great haha (heck, even the Argo's have caught my eye), I could really care less about the NHL. Marlies hockey, and watching the Colts live is fulfilling my hockey hunger good enough (nothing can replace the Leafs. I must admit)

Also, of course it's better. People have to stop just basing that answer off of our draft pick. Is that apart of it? Definitely.

However, Nazem Kadri, Matt Frattin, Jake Gardiner, Joe Colborne all get to play a year in the AHL, without worrying about being called up, or the pressure of playing in the NHL. Morgan Rielly gets another year to dominate the WHL, which can never hurt.

The lockout ends our ties with Matthew Lombardi and Tim Connolly, and should rumors be true of a free buy out, Mike Komisarek as well. This opens up roster spots for better FA's (replace Komi) and young players (replace Matt and Timmy).

On top of ALL of that, we don't have to suffer another dreadful season, and we are tied for the best chance at #1. Could we have a better chance at #1 should a season be played? Sure, but we could also have a 14th overall pick...

Only thing I hate about this lockout, is that Reimer can't play in the AHL.... would have been nice to see how he would rebound

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11-17-2012, 07:17 PM
  #64
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The Leafs upcoming cap room is great but it does no good unless they spend it on elite players. No more Connollys and Komisareks.

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11-17-2012, 07:37 PM
  #65
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The Leafs upcoming cap room is great but it does no good unless they spend it on elite players. No more Connollys and Komisareks.



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11-17-2012, 07:40 PM
  #66
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The Leafs upcoming cap room is great but it does no good unless they spend it on elite players. No more Connollys and Komisareks.
Agreed. It has to be the top free agents. They are going after tier 2 and 3 free agents all the time.

Getzlaf and Perry would gladly sign in Toronto, if they get the most money offered.

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11-17-2012, 08:40 PM
  #67
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Agreed. It has to be the top free agents. They are going after tier 2 and 3 free agents all the time.

Getzlaf and Perry would gladly sign in Toronto, if they get the most money offered.
It's hard to see either/both coming to Toronto unless this team is making progress in the standings department. They aren't getting any younger and both would likely to be looking for a combination of A) gettin' their money and B) a winning organization.

Counting on free agents to turn this ship around is exactly why JFJ is demonized around here. It's a terrible way to run a franchise because you're at the mercy of free agents. Getzlaf and Perry are simply the new Sedins or Brad Richards in this regard.

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11-17-2012, 09:02 PM
  #68
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It's hard to see either/both coming to Toronto unless this team is making progress in the standings department. They aren't getting any younger and both would likely to be looking for a combination of A) gettin' their money and B) a winning organization.
A) If either player leaves the ducks, Anaheim is going nowhere in the standings. It makes perfect sense to jump ship.

B) I doubt not getting their money would be an issue that prevents us acquiring either/both players.

C) Which one of these so-called "winning organizations" have cap space to take on either/both players on a longer term contract? How much do they want to keep playing together?

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Counting on free agents to turn this ship around is exactly why JFJ is demonized around here. It's a terrible way to run a franchise because you're at the mercy of free agents. Getzlaf and Perry are simply the new Sedins or Brad Richards in this regard.
No, that's not the reason at all. He sold the majority of our youth for veterans whose best days were far behind them, and in a few cases only managed to contribute (using that term very generously) a season or two. This, clearly has nothing to do with Burke attempting to go after some premier UFA during the next offseason.

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11-17-2012, 09:15 PM
  #69
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A) If either player leaves the ducks, Anaheim is going nowhere in the standings. It makes perfect sense to jump ship.

B) I doubt not getting their money would be an issue that prevents us acquiring either/both players.

C) Which one of these so-called "winning organizations" have cap space to take on either/both players on a longer term contract? How much do they want to keep playing together?



No, that's not the reason at all. He sold the majority of our youth for veterans whose best days were far behind them, and in a few cases only managed to contribute (using that term very generously) a season or two. This, clearly has nothing to do with Burke attempting to go after some premier UFA during the next offseason.
Perhaps I should have said one of the bigger reasons. Burke counting on UFA's to sign after finishing in the lottery is still a terrible idea unless we're closer to contention than I believe (backed by the standings) we currently are.

Cap space is meaningless unless they actually want to come here. Detroit, for example, has $25 million to spend next offseason. There's going to be competition to sign whomever makes it to free agency just like there is every year. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up too much counting on UFA's to make this team.

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11-17-2012, 09:20 PM
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Perhaps I should have said one of the bigger reasons. Burke counting on UFA's to sign after finishing in the lottery is still a terrible idea unless we're closer to contention than I believe (backed by the standings) we currently are.

Cap space is meaningless unless they actually want to come here. Detroit, for example, has $25 million to spend next offseason. There's going to be competition to sign whomever makes it to free agency just like there is every year. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up too much counting on UFA's to make this team.
When did Burke say he was counting on FA's??? It's fans that do that

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11-17-2012, 09:36 PM
  #71
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Morgan Rielly is a top 5 pick, and represents a brighter future for the Leafs as the result of his selection in the entry draft.

Remember when he is leading the Leafs to victory that he doesn't do much for you.

The best thing that is happening for Leaf Nation due to the teams struggles is the bonus of the prospect pool being built up with high selection(s) as a result of the fans enduring the losing. Cox's point is that the lockout is allowing the prospect pool to develop while the NHLers are locked out, which is going to be a long-term benefit.
This can be said of any team though and by most accounts there are 20 or so teams with better prospect pools than the Leafs. A top pick is a must if they are looking for long term solutions.


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Old
11-17-2012, 09:40 PM
  #72
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Perhaps I should have said one of the bigger reasons. Burke counting on UFA's to sign after finishing in the lottery is still a terrible idea unless we're closer to contention than I believe (backed by the standings) we currently are.
I don't think he's counting on it, but he'll definitely pursue it hard should the opportunity arise. He's been drafting/acquiring some prospects with size/grit/skill, which as we saw during the last FA come at a premium. He also acquired some decent mobile defensemen prospects, who could be flipped in a package to fill one of the holes in a season or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by achtungbaby View Post
Cap space is meaningless unless they actually want to come here. Detroit, for example, has $25 million to spend next offseason. There's going to be competition to sign whomever makes it to free agency just like there is every year. I'm just saying don't get your hopes up too much counting on UFA's to make this team.
Neither you or I know where players want to, or don't want to play. Just because Burke wasn't foolish enough to hand out retirement contracts that could cripple the team for a decade in 4-5 years doesn't mean players wouldn't want to play here (once those contracts are not allowed anymore).

Not sure acquiring more 1st liners will be the area the Wings will want to spend their cap space next year. Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen still have a few good years in them.

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11-18-2012, 12:15 AM
  #73
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Even for Cox this was a stupid article...and that's not saying much

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11-18-2012, 01:28 AM
  #74
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Frattin replacing CMac's productiveness? Mr. Hands of Stone, 1 goal in 20 games? Mr. 3rd-4th line production with 1st-2nd line icetime? Riight.

- I think if Frattin is given Mac's role full time I don't see why he couldn't put up 20-25g/40-45pts in a season which comes close to or rivals Mac's numbers, Frattin has the shot and net drive to produce those types of numbers.

Connolly, while his offense seems to be declining, is still a decent defensive player, and was used as such last season. If you think Kadri would be able to take on a #3C "shutdown" role, I don't think you've watched Kadri much at all.

- I never said I thought Kadri was any sort of defensive wizard, but again given a full time chance he has the skills to put up over 50 pts a season again making Connolly expendable.

Next, you're going to tell us Colborne will be able to duplicate what Bozak brings to the table, right? Sure, put him out there with Kessel, no worries. I'm sure it could only help his development tossing him in the deep end.

- I think even putting Gordie Howe at his ripe old eldery age could fair better then Bozak, sorry but when you have an elite sniper on one arm and a solid supporting player on another you better be able to put up way more then 47 points. No I don't think Colbornes the answer, but eh even he COULD put up Bozak-esque numbers playing with Lupul/Kessel.

And who's replacing Lupul's production, and his chemistry with Kessel?

- Re-read what I said, I said I want to KEEP (key word keep) Lupul, Lupul is a great fit with Kessel in many ways.

McClement replacing Steckel, I'm fine with. If we can get similar FO reliability out of McClement, with more offensive production, I'm not losing any sleep over Steckel walking.

- Finally we agree on something~

Same with Lombardi, although, losing him for nothing when we could actually get something for him seems like a waste. As the poster said, we have 6 or so contracts expiring, and are at a risk of getting nothing in return for those assets. Even if we get a 3rd rounder on average for each player, that's still 6 3rd rounders more than what we have atm.
- Lombardi leaving wouldn't net us a 3rd, a late 4th? maybe, but I'm thinking more of a 5th o4r 6th rounder.

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11-18-2012, 01:33 AM
  #75
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It's hard to see either/both coming to Toronto unless this team is making progress in the standings department. They aren't getting any younger and both would likely to be looking for a combination of A) gettin' their money and B) a winning organization.

Counting on free agents to turn this ship around is exactly why JFJ is demonized around here. It's a terrible way to run a franchise because you're at the mercy of free agents. Getzlaf and Perry are simply the new Sedins or Brad Richards in this regard.
Three key reasons why FA's wont come here

1) Too intense of a hockey market, its like living in hollywood for these players, their every move gets scrutinized 24/7.

2) Burke doesn't like to dish out more then 5 year long contracts, players these days want 7-12 years. I don't agree with these types of contracts BUT if that's whats blocking players from signing here then Burke really needs to get over his fat ego.

3) MLSE for a very long time has not shown a serious commitment to winning, sorry but its the truth. Players want to know the team they're playing for WILL be a winning one, no player wants to come sign on and waste years of their lives playing for a bottom feeding team.

Issue #1 will never change, so its time to just except it. Issue #2 will only change once Burke is canned and/or the new CBA re-aligns its player contracts. Issue #3 is slowly being fixed but we're still several years away from being a good team.


Last edited by Mess: 11-18-2012 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Removed NSFW
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