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2013 Draft: Stop winnin for MacKinnon, or Do Meth for Seth?

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:32 AM
  #201
Boom Boom Anton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Tarasenko start fast and look fancy! Roenick say Calder during first week!

Him and Cory Conacher are definitely battling for the McBain trophy.

Just like Jerome Samson is an NHL'r. Sure, he doesn't 'score goals' or 'get assists', but look how good he looks!! Best player on the ice. Unlike lazy Staal who lazied his way to 2 goals but didn't get up off the ice fast enough for my liking once.

Reality is, once someone has a fast start, and gets noticed for it, people don't seem to have the ability to change their opinion.

Tarasenko doesn't look as good as Skinner. And Skinner is a year younger, a proven entity, and should be traded for Dan Girardi.

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Great post Wally!

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:00 AM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Tarasenko start fast and look fancy! Roenick say Calder during first week!

Him and Cory Conacher are definitely battling for the McBain trophy.

Just like Jerome Samson is an NHL'r. Sure, he doesn't 'score goals' or 'get assists', but look how good he looks!! Best player on the ice. Unlike lazy Staal who lazied his way to 2 goals but didn't get up off the ice fast enough for my liking once.

Reality is, once someone has a fast start, and gets noticed for it, people don't seem to have the ability to change their opinion.

Tarasenko doesn't look as good as Skinner. And Skinner is a year younger, a proven entity, and should be traded for Dan Girardi.

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Ok, so you looked at quarterly point totals and suddenly you are an expert on his game.

Nevermind that he is 21 years old, just transitioned from a vastly different ice surface and play style in the KHL, suffered a major concussion, gets mostly 3rd line duty at 13:38 a night, and is 8th among forwards on St. Louis for PP time.

Or that his points per minutes playing time are tied for 2nd on the Blues with Steen and actually better than Tlusty, Jordan Staal, and Skinner. Or that his goals per minutes playing time are better than anybody on the Canes save Tlusty.

These things would take more understanding then simply saying "welp, he hasn't played good lately while the Blues suck so he must be Jamie McBain"

And I believe HFBoard logic actually dictates that Tarasenkos Giroux adjusted, 85-86 Oilers adjusted stats are astronomical.

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Old
04-16-2013, 11:40 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
Tarasenko start fast and look fancy! Roenick say Calder during first week!

Him and Cory Conacher are definitely battling for the McBain trophy.

Just like Jerome Samson is an NHL'r. Sure, he doesn't 'score goals' or 'get assists', but look how good he looks!! Best player on the ice. Unlike lazy Staal who lazied his way to 2 goals but didn't get up off the ice fast enough for my liking once.

Reality is, once someone has a fast start, and gets noticed for it, people don't seem to have the ability to change their opinion.

Tarasenko doesn't look as good as Skinner. And Skinner is a year younger, a proven entity, and should be traded for Dan Girardi.

HFboard logix.
"Look at me, I haven't watched a game yet feel the need to state my opinion super-emphatically."

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:23 PM
  #204
wallym
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First 8 games: 5g 5a, +6, 26 sog
Next 9 games: 1g 1a, -7, 11 sog
Concussion
Last 14 games: 2g 3a, even, 29 sog

For those people watching all the blues games. When you were crying "NO FAIR NO FAIR!!! HE GOT A CONCUSSION AND IT SCREWED UP HIS STATS!!!"

Did you not notice that his worst stretch of hockey was the 9 games before his concussion? Seems like you'd pick up on him going from 3 shots a game to 1 shot a game, or a +6 to a -7.

Or was he playing the exact same way, and just getting unlucky?

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
"Look at me, I haven't watched a game yet feel the need to state my opinion super-emphatically."
This is HFBoards, man. Not saying it's true in this instance but it happens all the time here.

Makes me think of the guy a few weeks back who emphatically insisted that he'd watched plenty of games and that Faulk wasn't very good defensively, and then went on to describe Murphy's game.

Posting with authority doesn't make one an authority.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #206
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
First 8 games: 5g 5a, +6, 26 sog
Next 9 games: 1g 1a, -7, 11 sog
Concussion
Last 14 games: 2g 3a, even, 29 sog

For those people watching all the blues games. When you were crying "NO FAIR NO FAIR!!! HE GOT A CONCUSSION AND IT SCREWED UP HIS STATS!!!"

Did you not notice that his worst stretch of hockey was the 9 games before his concussion? Seems like you'd pick up on him going from 3 shots a game to 1 shot a game, or a +6 to a -7.

Or was he playing the exact same way, and just getting unlucky?
As I asked earlier -- setting the numbers aside, what specifically about his game do you believe is causing this picture to emerge?

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:32 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
As I asked earlier -- setting the numbers aside, what specifically about his game do you believe is causing this picture to emerge?
Looking at those numbers:

First 8-Taking advantage of the out of shape competition from playing in the KHL all season.
Next sequence: The competition catches up, and Tarasenko has difficulty in adjusting quickly (shocking for a 21 year old).

CONCUSSION

Comes back, and tries to play with the knowledge that he could get blown up at any time, like our own diminutive star forward.

Why don't we wait and see how Tarasenko performs through a couple of 82 game seasons before we label him a bust?

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:37 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
Looking at those numbers:

First 8-Taking advantage of the out of shape competition from playing in the KHL all season.
Next sequence: The competition catches up, and Tarasenko has difficulty in adjusting quickly (shocking for a 21 year old).

CONCUSSION

Comes back, and tries to play with the knowledge that he could get blown up at any time, like our own diminutive star forward.

Why don't we wait and see how Tarasenko performs through a couple of 82 game seasons before we label him a bust?
Also, if you were watching St. Louis games, you might observe that they are snakebitten offensively and everyone's stats are suffering, and that their style of play is not such that anybody on the team will be putting up big stats.

This is why I hate statistics, because anybody can look at them and think it tells the whole story. If one were watching games, it's easy to see that Tarasenko is one of the better players on a pretty deep team. I have no particular bias, or horse in the race so to speak, just saying what I see.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #209
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In fairness, this all started with someone characterize Tarasenko as "tearing it up" which is when wallym commented about how initial impressions stick even if current performance doesn't support that assessment. I realize there's been a lot of other hyperboles thrown in that might lead someone to think people are labeling him as a bust, but that's not really what this was about.

My view is he had a really hot start and has come back to earth a bit but is still having a good first season for a young player. Nothing wrong with that, but also ok to say he's not tearing it up.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:41 PM
  #210
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So how about them draft eligibles

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04-16-2013, 12:44 PM
  #211
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So how about them draft eligibles
I disagree with this post, and if I weren't on my phone I'd type paragraphs to "prove" my point.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:51 PM
  #212
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My opinion is that he physically looked like he was playing the game at a different speed than everyone else early in the season, and that's no longer the case.

He certainly has plenty of skill. Certainly the skill you'd expect from a 21yo mid first rounder. But with that physical edge diminished, he doesn't seem to create the same offense he was earlier on.

My guess, I think he had that half a step, then lost most of that advantage when the league got back to it's normal play. Then took some time adjusting to having lost it. And now he's finding his way in the NHL, like any rookie would. But that's just subjective guessing.

I don't know how good he'll be. Lots of players have lots of skill. But most don't end up scoring as much as Chad Larose. But I think what can be said that wasn't clear at the start of the season, is the Tarasenko is not a case of "Too talented to fail."

edit: I see highway to cap hell said what I just said much faster.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #213
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So what happens when we pick 3rd and JR reaches

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:20 AM
  #214
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If we have the #3, we either take MacKinnon/Drouin, or we trade back with whoever is willing to pay up in the #4 through 6 range.

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04-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #215
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I really don't think JR does something stupid this year. It seems like such a no-brainer to do what Dave said, and this team just cannot afford to trade it away in another Tim Gleason type move.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
So what happens when we pick 3rd and JR reaches
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
If we have the #3, we either take MacKinnon/Drouin, or we trade back with whoever is willing to pay up in the #4 through 6 range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
I really don't think JR does something stupid this year. It seems like such a no-brainer to do what Dave said, and this team just cannot afford to trade it away in another Tim Gleason type move.

With the 3rd overall pick in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft, the Carolina Hurricanes are proud to select, from the Plymouth Whalers, Ryan Hartman!

Actually, he's not enough of a smurf. He looks to adequately fill out his frame nearly enough to be an NHL player relatively soon, development aside.

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04-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
If we have the #3, we either take MacKinnon/Drouin, or we trade back with whoever is willing to pay up in the #4 through 6 range.
Yeah obviously that would be ideal, just trying to get this thread back on topic. I don't trust anything about this team at this point though, despite the drafting being slightly better recently. In my book I take Drouin over Mackinnon.

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. Mackinnon
4. Nurse
5. Barkov

I wouldn't be upset with any of these guys in that order.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:24 AM
  #218
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please no trades down. just take whoever is the best left.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:25 AM
  #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Yeah obviously that would be ideal, just trying to get this thread back on topic. I don't trust anything about this team at this point though, despite the drafting being slightly better recently. In my book I take Drouin over Mackinnon.

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. Mackinnon
4. Nurse
5. Barkov

I wouldn't be upset with any of these guys in that order.
Sounds about right with my limited knowledge, although we could certainly trade back a little bit of the way if we want Nurse, assuming we do finish in the Drouin/MacKinnon area.


But overall I agree with bleedgreen on this. Take BPA at whatever pick they finish with, unless you get a hell of a deal to move down a couple of spots that will help the team now and offset the immediate impact that MacKinnon or Drouin will have.

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04-17-2013, 11:27 AM
  #220
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I don't think we will trade down, but that depends on where we finish I guess. Nashville is coming in fast, but Calgary and Colorado look better lately. I would be so pumped to be able to collect Drouin rookie cards if we drafted him.

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04-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  #221
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Is it just me, or does there seem to be a larger number of picks from the QMJHL projected to be in the first round this year?

Drouin
MacKinnon
Zykov
Mantha
Erne
Gauthier
Fucale (maybe)


I don't follow up with it that much, but it always seems to me like the Q is a step behind the OHL and WHL in producing first rounders.

I might just be completely off base here, though.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:42 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
Yeah obviously that would be ideal, just trying to get this thread back on topic. I don't trust anything about this team at this point though, despite the drafting being slightly better recently. In my book I take Drouin over Mackinnon.

1. Jones
2. Drouin
3. Mackinnon
4. Nurse
5. Barkov

I wouldn't be upset with any of these guys in that order.
If Jones / Drouin / MacKinnon are the top 3, and we are 4th, I think Barkov might be the better pick.

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Old
04-17-2013, 11:45 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Misfit Semin View Post
If Jones / Drouin / MacKinnon are the top 3, and we are 4th, I think Barkov might be the better pick.
I don't think that's a ranking of the prospects in ColeMPV's post, but rather a ranking of the players he'd like for the Canes to draft. Barkov is undoubtedly a better pick at 4, but but ColeMPV and I would rather have Nurse then Barkov.

If I'm wrong, feel free to call me an idiot.

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04-17-2013, 11:53 AM
  #224
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I just think Nurse is exactly what we need on the blue line. Barkov and even Lindholm would also be great picks at 4. It'll be hard to go wrong in this draft I guess.

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04-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
I just think Nurse is exactly what we need on the blue line. Barkov and even Lindholm would also be great picks at 4. It'll be hard to go wrong in this draft I guess.
Please see Post #216.

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