HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

The new All Purpose Lu Thread (MOD Warning in OP)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-20-2012, 12:15 PM
  #526
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,303
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Florida's cap dumps are all multi-year contracts in Upshall, Jovo, and possibly Kopecky. Toronto has cap dumps that expire after this season such as Lombardi and Connolly. Could be all the difference for Gillis.


Is it? I get the feeling from the rumoured asking prices and the slow deal by Gillis, that he views Luongo as a prime asset. Does he take on a cap dump to move a prime asset? Hard to say. Would you normally have to take on a cap dump to move a prime asset?


Are Dubinsky and Anisimov considered cap dumps? I would say no. They have cap hits, but they aren't cap dumps.



If the sticking point has been cap dumps, I wouldn't be surprised. it's Burke shooting himself in the foot first by taking on these bad contracts, and then holding up a trade to help his team, again to his detriment, because he's adamant that someone else take on his problem contracts. Gillis doesn't view the contract he signed Luongo to to be a problem, hence his reticence to take on bad money to help Burke. On and on we go...

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:18 PM
  #527
doorman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Thunder Bay
Country: Canada
Posts: 414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Actually I think that is very close to the price that Burke would pay.

one of Kulemin/Bozak/Franson + one of Kadri/Finn/Colborne + plus the first (non-protected)

Player + Prospect + Pick with no cap dumps.
I am not saying that this is what it will be, however I do agree this except the cap dump. Pending the team and the prospect or say the position of the first possibly, it could happen. This trade is somewhere in the middle ground maybe not bang on but pending the actual mix of prospects i could live with, but the first would have to be top ten protected. If Van fans or MGNT are confident this trade put Tor out of the top ten, it shouldn't be a sticking point. Point is most Nucks fans will be disappointed their goalie didn't fetch more and fans of the aquiring team will want to have paid less. But I think Gillis has to make this trade sooner then later no matter who it is to.

doorman is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:18 PM
  #528
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,483
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
If the Leafs were trading for Roberto and Vancouver managed to snag Lupul in the deal, the Canucks would be adding the first, not the other way around.

These deals are laughable.
In terms of skill, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of positional need to Toronto, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of contract, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of consistency over their careers, Luongo > Lupul

Give your head a shake.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:19 PM
  #529
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Is it? I get the feeling from the rumoured asking prices and the slow deal by Gillis, that he views Luongo as a prime asset. Does he take on a cap dump to move a prime asset? Hard to say. Would you normally have to take on a cap dump to move a prime asset?


Are Dubinsky and Anisimov considered cap dumps? I would say no. They have cap hits, but they aren't cap dumps.



If the sticking point has been cap dumps, I wouldn't be surprised. it's Burke shooting himself in the foot first by taking on these bad contracts, and then holding up a trade to help his team, again to his detriment, because he's adamant that someone else take on his problem contracts. Gillis doesn't view the contract he signed Luongo to to be a problem, hence his reticence to take on bad money to help Burke. On and on we go...
I think for the Rangers, they were. Dubi was being shopped and Anisimov was being booed out of town......dam, i just realised....the Ranger's cap dumps are even better than ours...CURSE YOU SATHER!!!

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:19 PM
  #530
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Is it? I get the feeling from the rumoured asking prices and the slow deal by Gillis, that he views Luongo as a prime asset.
A prime asset usually garners interest around the league.

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:20 PM
  #531
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
So Burke is going to trade kulemin kadri and a 1st to van I guess it must be for a sedin
Kulemin Finn and a first
Franson Kadri and a first

yeah...ballpark that's what it takes.

Kulemin is no upgrade over Raymond, they have the same qualitites except one has game breaking speed and the other size. I think Kulemin is more comfortable on the right than Raymond which makes it appealing to do that sideways move and ship Raymond out.

Franson is a third pairing D

Kadri is still a suspect but can play anywhere at forward on a scoring line

Finn is a long way from the NHL

The first is the value point and likely a mid table pick in a good draft.

Seems fair to me.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #532
dave babych returns
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,365
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I think for the Rangers, they were. Dubi was being shopped and Anisimov was being booed out of town......dam, i just realised....the Ranger's cap dumps are even better than ours...CURSE YOU SATHER!!!
Inasmuch as they stopped the Rangers from acquiring Rick Nash, they were.

But that's like saying Milan Michalek is a cap dump, or Devon Setoguchi, or a ton of other players with value who evened up the salary in a trade.

dave babych returns is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #533
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
In terms of skill, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of positional need to Toronto, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of contract, Luongo > Lupul
In terms of consistency over their careers, Luongo > Lupul

Give your head a shake.
Oh my. Are you ignoring the part about Roberto being signed for eternity?

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #534
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I think for the Rangers, they were. Dubi was being shopped and Anisimov was being booed out of town......dam, i just realised....the Ranger's cap dumps are even better than ours...CURSE YOU SATHER!!!
I think of a cap dump as a player with negative value....as in if they were placed on waivers they'd make it through.

Dubinsky by that definition is no cap dump as there are at least 20 teams that would find room for him.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:22 PM
  #535
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Oh my. Are you ignoring the part about Roberto being signed for eternity?
No, he is talking about trading for an upcoming UFA that may not resign with them.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:23 PM
  #536
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Oh and Roberto's precarious contractual status is what is negging his value down to where the Canucks will have to take a short-term high cap hit in a trade.

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:24 PM
  #537
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
I think of a cap dump as a player with negative value....as in if they were placed on waivers they'd make it through.

Dubinsky by that definition is no cap dump as there are at least 20 teams that would find room for him.
I agree. I guess my point was, essentially to the Rangers, they were players they wanted gone. Dealing them had no pain..thus, kind of a dump.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:25 PM
  #538
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
No, he is talking about trading for an upcoming UFA that may not resign with them.
In a cap world, the key to success is having flexibility to do what you want with cap space. If Lupul wouldn't re-sign with the Canucks, they could take that money and spend it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the Leafs would be dogged with that huge cap hit for a soon-to-be declining player.

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:27 PM
  #539
doorman
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Thunder Bay
Country: Canada
Posts: 414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Is it? I get the feeling from the rumoured asking prices and the slow deal by Gillis, that he views Luongo as a prime asset. Does he take on a cap dump to move a prime asset? Hard to say. Would you normally have to take on a cap dump to move a prime asset?


Are Dubinsky and Anisimov considered cap dumps? I would say no. They have cap hits, but they aren't cap dumps.



If the sticking point has been cap dumps, I wouldn't be surprised. it's Burke shooting himself in the foot first by taking on these bad contracts, and then holding up a trade to help his team, again to his detriment, because he's adamant that someone else take on his problem contracts. Gillis doesn't view the contract he signed Luongo to to be a problem, hence his reticence to take on bad money to help Burke. On and on we go...
Nash didn't get cap dumps to Clb for a few reasons, first he is 5 yrs younger, say what you will but this means something. Two there were multiple teams on Nash's list of approved destinations, not tons but a few(this helps). Say what you will as others have that this was a good return for Nash, and I say Bull$***. Almost everysingle insider said they were shocked at what Howson took and that he really crapped out in this trade.Especially if you go off of his original asking price.

doorman is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:29 PM
  #540
Vankiller Whale
Maybe HE can score
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,483
vCash: 5555
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
In a cap world, the key to success is having flexibility to do what you want with cap space. If Lupul wouldn't re-sign with the Canucks, they could take that money and spend it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the Leafs would be dogged with that huge cap hit for a soon-to-be declining player.
Yeah, if you think a player on a one year deal has more value than a player signed to a lifetime contract(at a reasonable cap hit), then I don't know what to say.

Vankiller Whale is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:32 PM
  #541
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
I agree. I guess my point was, essentially to the Rangers, they were players they wanted gone. Dealing them had no pain..thus, kind of a dump.
They were in a very nice situation as Nash had a very short list of teams he'd play for and the assets they moved were useful to Columbus, even if they are overloaded on the left side now. Dubi can play center or left wing. Umberger can play anywhere up front. It was an OK deal for Columbus and ideal for the Rags.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:38 PM
  #542
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
In a cap world, the key to success is having flexibility to do what you want with cap space. If Lupul wouldn't re-sign with the Canucks, they could take that money and spend it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the Leafs would be dogged with that huge cap hit for a soon-to-be declining player.
5.3 is hardly huge for a starter with Luongo's resume. Now...i know you are loading up your "but..but..10 years!!" cannon, do me a favour...read his contract. There are a bushell of ways to get out of it in 5 years.

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #543
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Yeah, if you think a player on a one year deal has more value than a player signed to a lifetime contract(at a reasonable cap hit), then I don't know what to say.

Joffrey Lupul certainly has more value than Roberto Luongo because Lupul is not going to take up an excessive amount of cap money sitting on the bench.

Otherwise, the Canucks would never consider trading their only veteran netminder, right?

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:42 PM
  #544
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
5.3 is hardly huge for a starter with Luongo's resume. Now...i know you are loading up your "but..but..10 years!!" cannon, do me a favour...read his contract. There are a bushell of ways to get out of it in 5 years.
That's a hypothetical situation contingent on a GM being able to convince another GM to tie up $5.3m/yr in a back-up position, because you certainly can't bury that contract in the minors anymore.

The Saurus is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #545
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
In a cap world, the key to success is having flexibility to do what you want with cap space. If Lupul wouldn't re-sign with the Canucks, they could take that money and spend it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the Leafs would be dogged with that huge cap hit for a soon-to-be declining player.
The Leafs are in a very good situation after this year against the cap. IMO they will have an inside track on Perry and Getzlaf as they have the cap space, cash, and previous relationship to lever if Anaheim is not able to get those players signed.

This year, Toronto with Lou is just fine against the cap. Neither Vancouver nor Toronto are going to benefit by getting more cap space as there is literally nothing left in UFA land to spend the money on, and only Perry, Zajac and Getzlaf that may come available.

Cap space for Vancouver is a big problem after this season. The Ballard contract, Edler UFA and Booth contract all loom large. Burrows' cap hit went way up. We won't be able to replace Malhotra, Higgins, and Lapierre for anywhere close to the money they are making right now. Unlike Toronto, we have a much smaller list of prospects that are going to be able to step into those roles next season with only Jensen looking like he's going to be NHL ready. Gaunce may surprise but I think they'll take their time with him.

The potential cap dumps from Toronto don't help Vancouver this year because none of those players is good enough to discplace anyone we have on the roster. Looking ahead, big contracts that exceed one year are a non starter (thus the lack of interest in Upshall) for Vancouver.

Kulemin and Bozak are the only two players I could see winning a roster spot in Vancouver. Even Lupul is not really a good fit.

Sedin, Booth, Higgins, Raymond are all better on the left.....we need a right winger or a center and we need a right side D.

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #546
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
Joffrey Lupul certainly has more value than Roberto Luongo because Lupul is not going to take up an excessive amount of cap money sitting on the bench.

Otherwise, the Canucks would never consider trading their only veteran netminder, right?
Question...if the season is canceled, how much are you going to offer Lupul (UFA)? He has had 1 year of PPG with us (shortened by injury).

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:44 PM
  #547
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
That's a hypothetical situation contingent on a GM being able to convince another GM to tie up $5.3m/yr in a back-up position, because you certainly can't bury that contract in the minors anymore
Source? Did we sign a new CBA that I was not aware of?

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:45 PM
  #548
ginner classic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Kitsilano
Posts: 6,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Question...if the season is canceled, how much are you going to offer Lupul (UFA)? He has had 1 year of PPG with us (shortened by injury).
HAH...trick question.....correct answer is '0'......Ideally you are not going to offer him anything, you are going to get Perry instead. Lupul should only be a fall back to not getting Perry. :-)

ginner classic is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #549
Liferleafer
RIP Mrs Doubtfire
 
Liferleafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 9,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
That's a hypothetical situation contingent on a GM being able to convince another GM to tie up $5.3m/yr in a back-up position, because you certainly can't bury that contract in the minors anymore.
They signed a new CBA??? Crap, i missed it!!

Liferleafer is offline  
Old
11-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #550
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,203
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Source? Did we sign a new CBA that I was not aware of?
The NHL put that in their last offer and the PA is not going to argue against including that in the CBA. It's as good as done.

The Saurus is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.