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Old
11-20-2012, 08:45 PM
  #601
mstad101
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Last I heard the NHLPA was making three year deals, to tie to the new TV deal in Canada, and the owners longest was 7 yrs. So at this point I would say the probably would be another CBA before then. But who knows.
My opinion would be a 5 year deal would be ideal for both parties, the owners get security on their investment to get to 50%. Also allows players to have reassurance they have 5 years of salary to count on before any type of lockout happens again.

Either way none of this matters until the Make Whole provision is public knowledge.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:13 PM
  #602
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While the threat of "locker room cancer" is possible I guess, and I hate that people are referred to as that. Let's say distraction, though that is not what I was referring to. Personally I doubt he does, he has handled things as a pro so far. I was referring more to that either the team plays poorly, and puts pressure on Gillis to make trade from a reverse standpoint. Or, if Loungo gets hurt, now you have a 34 yr old goalie coming off and injury. Thirdly, what if he plays poorly as said rumors or not knowing where he is going reflects in his play? He wouldn't be the first guy this happened to. These are three things that could have a negative affect on Loungos value and are out of Gillis's control
Would you say the odds of any of those happening are higher than the odds of Cory Schneider getting hurt or Cory Schneider not being an elite starter or Luongo playing amazingly well?

I wouldn't.

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Old
11-21-2012, 07:00 AM
  #603
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Would you say the odds of any of those happening are higher than the odds of Cory Schneider getting hurt or Cory Schneider not being an elite starter or Luongo playing amazingly well?

I wouldn't.
I have never stated any of these are likely, but everyone is acting like none of them are even possible. All i did was throw up reasons Gillis may have more pressure on him then he or obviously you guys admit. Schneider will more then likely be a very good starter. Either of them could get hurt and guess what none of us fans now exactly how ownership feels about spanding nearly 11mil on goalies. The last one especially if Schneider is playing well is most likely. And guess what if Lou gets off to a slow start this season, there is no working his way out of it because he is the number one. Everyone keeps stating in a certainty that Gillis is under zero pressure to trade Loungo. All I did was try to ad a little flavor as why Gillis may wanna make the trade sooner then later.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:34 AM
  #604
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
While the threat of "locker room cancer" is possible I guess, and I hate that people are referred to as that. Let's say distraction, though that is not what I was referring to. Personally I doubt he does, he has handled things as a pro so far. I was referring more to that either the team plays poorly, and puts pressure on Gillis to make trade from a reverse standpoint. Or, if Loungo gets hurt, now you have a 34 yr old goalie coming off and injury. Thirdly, what if he plays poorly as said rumors or not knowing where he is going reflects in his play? He wouldn't be the first guy this happened to. These are three things that could have a negative affect on Loungos value and are out of Gillis's control
Cancer is the wrong word in my opinion. Distraction is a better one. Luo is a proffesional and a good team member but the media will be there the minute training camp starts asking every day about this issue. And not just Luongo but Schenider and everyone else.

" Is a trade close ?"
" Is this a distraction ?"
" What if ?"

and so on. None of it will be the players doing but it will happen and it will be a destraction. That is something no GM or coach wants.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:37 AM
  #605
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Lou
Raymond
Alberts

for

Lupul
Gunnarson

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:40 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
Cancer is the wrong word in my opinion. Distraction is a better one. Luo is a proffesional and a good team member but the media will be there the minute training camp starts asking every day about this issue. And not just Luongo but Schenider and everyone else.

" Is a trade close ?"
" Is this a distraction ?"
" What if ?"

and so on. None of it will be the players doing but it will happen and it will be a destraction. That is something no GM or coach wants.
The questions will be asked if/when he's traded too...

"Can Cory handle this"
"Is Lack ready for meaningful NHL games"
"Did the team get better"

And imagine if Schneider struggles...

Media in hockey-crazed markets will try and artificially create controversy, Vancouver is a veteran team who have been through just about all you can....I'd say they are mature enough to handle the distraction.

Sometimes these outward distractions help 'galvanize' a team.

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Old
11-21-2012, 11:45 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I think when people say "Lu will be a distraction" you have to keep in mid these guys are all his best friends in the locker room.

Hes been with these guys for years, hes not likely to be a distraction to his friends/long time teammates.

The Jeff Carter situation I could see as being a distraction.
- Guy goes to a team, didnt want to go to that team, requests a trade and gives all the guys a bad impression from day 1.
How about the situation with Rick Nash in Columbus which I think is a better example then Jeff Carter. He told the media publicly he asked for a trade, although he still said he would show up everyday and keep playing. Now obviously we have no idea what was said to him when the media wasn't around. However Luongo has basically said the same things as Nash and wouldn't you agree their situations are no different?

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Old
11-21-2012, 12:31 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Lou
Raymond
Alberts

for

Lupul
Gunnarson
Tornto takes on almost 9 mil in cap and over 10 mil in actual salary. Vancouver takes back about 5.5 million in cap/salary. Considering the main issue with a Luongo trade is the size of his contract, why on Earth are you adding additional salary and cap.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:02 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Tornto takes on almost 9 mil in cap and over 10 mil in actual salary. Vancouver takes back about 5.5 million in cap/salary. Considering the main issue with a Luongo trade is the size of his contract, why on Earth are you adding additional salary and cap.
And the Leafs take on players they really don't need.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:11 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
How about the situation with Rick Nash in Columbus which I think is a better example then Jeff Carter. He told the media publicly he asked for a trade, although he still said he would show up everyday and keep playing. Now obviously we have no idea what was said to him when the media wasn't around. However Luongo has basically said the same things as Nash and wouldn't you agree their situations are no different?
I would agree they are close. Just taking snippets from Luongo, it is all past tense about how he's done with the Canuck's and he's referring the goalie situation as it is:

I think you have to be naive to think he'll stay around as long as Gillis wants.

"I would never say never, you never know, but we all know what is going on and what has developed,"

"At the end of the day I think it's time to move on and I'm okay with that. I had a great six years in Vancouver, I think it's a wonderful city, I really enjoyed my time there. Unfortunately, I was not able to bring a Stanley Cup there which is probably my biggest regret, but it will be remembered for six good years."

"I'm sure when something is close to happening, I'll have to make a decision, but for right now to be honest with you I haven't really made any decisions whatsoever."



These really don't sound like words from a guy whose thinking, "I'll play in Vancouver next year and try to out play Schneider or I'mokay splitting time."

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:17 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I would agree they are close. Just taking snippets from Luongo, it is all past tense about how he's done with the Canuck's and he's referring the goalie situation as it is:

I think you have to be naive to think he'll stay around as long as Gillis wants.

"I would never say never, you never know, but we all know what is going on and what has developed,"

"At the end of the day I think it's time to move on and I'm okay with that. I had a great six years in Vancouver, I think it's a wonderful city, I really enjoyed my time there. Unfortunately, I was not able to bring a Stanley Cup there which is probably my biggest regret, but it will be remembered for six good years."

"I'm sure when something is close to happening, I'll have to make a decision, but for right now to be honest with you I haven't really made any decisions whatsoever."



These really don't sound like words from a guy whose thinking, "I'll play in Vancouver next year and try to out play Schneider or I'mokay splitting time."
That is true but more recently he has stated that he is preparing to come back and play in Vancouver, and that is all he is worrying about. I think he said this at the charity golf event Canucks held.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:21 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
That is true but more recently he has stated that he is preparing to come back and play in Vancouver, and that is all he is worrying about. I think he said this at the charity golf event Canucks held.
Seems like he's being a good sport, I wouldn't take it literally IMO.

But as I have stated, it is reasonable to expect he'll spend part of the year with the Canucks'.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:26 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
Seems like he's being a good sport, I wouldn't take it literally IMO.

But as I have stated, it is reasonable to expect he'll spend part of the year with the Canucks'.
It is true. Some parts of me still think trading Schneider is an option. I really want to keep Schneider long term, but it was very recent when everyone was saying Bieksa needs to go and is on the trading block. Don't look now he is one of the Canucks best defenders on a hometown discount. If Luongo plays great to start the season things will get even more complicated fast. Good players have a tendency of showing up in situations like these.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:30 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
It is true. Some parts of me still think trading Schneider is an option. I really want to keep Schneider long term, but it was very recent when everyone was saying Bieksa needs to go and is on the trading block. Don't look now he is one of the Canucks best defenders on a hometown discount. If Luongo plays great to start the season things will get even more complicated fast. Good players have a tendency of showing up in situations like these.
True, true.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:41 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
It is true. Some parts of me still think trading Schneider is an option. I really want to keep Schneider long term, but it was very recent when everyone was saying Bieksa needs to go and is on the trading block. Don't look now he is one of the Canucks best defenders on a hometown discount. If Luongo plays great to start the season things will get even more complicated fast. Good players have a tendency of showing up in situations like these.
It would be far easier to move Schneider, we would net a greater return, would result in more trading partners bidding, is less risky for the next year.....yeah I'd say they'd be silly to not think about it.

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:54 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Lou
Raymond
Alberts

for

Lupul
Gunnarson
take out Alberts, Raymond and Lupul. Leafs add Ashton or a 2nd

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Old
11-21-2012, 01:59 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
take out Alberts, Raymond and Lupul. Leafs add Ashton or a 2nd

Take out Gunnarson, Ashton/2nd, and Luongo then

Not saying the value is terrible, just that Gunnarson alone does not really fit our roster needs.

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11-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Co Ho View Post
Take out Gunnarson, Ashton/2nd, and Luongo then

Not saying the value is terrible, just that Gunnarson alone does not really fit our roster needs.
are you saying Lupul > Alberts, Raymond + 2nd/Ashton

actually, yes he is but not by too much

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:01 PM
  #619
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
take out Alberts, Raymond and Lupul. Leafs add Ashton or a 2nd
So you're saying we trade a star player for scraps and depth players? Thanks for adding something new to these 25 pages of the 100th Luongo thread.
Please do not return until you can actually be mature and make a real offer.

I think that any open discussion about Vancouver goalies will continue to end in the same way we've seen all the threads. Neither is good or valuable and we should trade both to run with a rookie Lack.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:04 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
are you saying Lupul > Alberts, Raymond + 2nd/Ashton

actually, yes he is but not by too much
No, I'm saying scrap the trade proposal if the only roster player is Gunnarson. It puts a hole in the Leaf's defense while not helping the Canucks roster much (unless they flip him for a top 6 forward).

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:31 PM
  #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
Lou
Raymond
Alberts

for

Lupul
Gunnarson
The big concerns are that the Leafs take too much salary back and the other players returning aren't needed.

5.33+2.275+1.225=8.73
vs.
4.25+1.325=5.575

So another roster player with a reasonably high cap hit could be included for the Canucks, who do have 2.4 million in cap space, combined with 3.155 we'd be gaining...5.5 million in cap space we can absorb. Lombardi or Connolly fit that like a glove, and neither seem super valuable to Leafs faithful.

Raymond gets a new shot, with a new team, and his speed and versatility I think will make him a favorite as a tweener in Toronto, and combined with his defensive play under a Carlyle system could be very, very good for both parties concerned.

Alberts is 6/7 guy, and honestly, with Liles, Phaneuf, Gardiner and Franson, (along with Komisarek who could step up) and younger players like Holzer and even Rielly, I think the Leafs defense, while taking a bit of a hit moving Schenn and potentially Gunnarsson in this trade, could use a veteran presence as a spare.

Lupul, Gunnarsson (and Lombardi/Connolly, my only addition) for Luongo, Raymond and Alberts actually is a better fit then the Lupul+1st for Lu trade that was thrown around earlier.

EDIT: As a worse case scenario, I'd contemplate Komisarek as the cap dump if the lockout lasts all season. I think I could handle one season of that.


Last edited by Cogburn: 11-21-2012 at 02:38 PM. Reason: I forgot a worst case scenario.
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Old
11-21-2012, 02:41 PM
  #622
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The Canucks have Hamhuis, Edler, Garrison and Ballard as LHD, and Connauton who currently looks very good in the AHL. Adding another one like Gunnarsson who isn't a puck moving defenseman isn't going to help us. In fact it'll hurt us.

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #623
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The Canucks have Hamhuis, Edler, Garrison and Ballard as LHD, and Connauton who currently looks very good in the AHL. Adding another one like Gunnarsson who isn't a puck moving defenseman isn't going to help us. In fact it'll hurt us.
Even though he is LH, I thought he played right naturally. No?

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:43 PM
  #624
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Even though he is LH, I thought he played right naturally. No?
No, he plays with Phaneuf, who plays his off-side.(right)

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Old
11-21-2012, 02:45 PM
  #625
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No, he plays with Phaneuf, who plays his off-side.(right)
Well that's a colossal misunderstanding on my part, I thought Phaneuf was the natural righty and Gunnarsson played left to accomodate him.

Woops.

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