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Autumn Thunder: Child's Play 16 - The Revenge of Chucky Batch

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Old
11-29-2012, 11:44 PM
  #426
ColePens
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Look... nobody can ***** about the Martin deal. Our catching was so terrible. SO terrible. I'm very pleased with the deal.

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11-30-2012, 12:38 AM
  #427
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He was the only good catcher on the market and we actually paid to get him. Also only 6 errors and throws out 25% of runners compared to 6% for barajas.

I'll take it

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11-30-2012, 01:36 AM
  #428
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Look... nobody can ***** about the Martin deal. Our catching was so terrible. SO terrible. I'm very pleased with the deal.
Definitely.

Had Martin got what he was supposedly looking for (4 years at $9-10 million) then we could have an issue...but $17 million for 2 years for a catcher of Martin's ilk is actually decent by Major League standards, sadly.


And those of you out there who love metrics and defensive talk...SI calls Martin worth double what he's getting. That's going overboard, but still...when Martin's fielding and pitch framing is brought into account he was a 3.4 WARP value last year. Barajas was a -0.5. That right there would be a swing from 79-83 to 83-79.

Martin is an average offensive and a slightly above average defensively catcher...considering how few of those there are on the market (that is to say Martin was the only one) we could have done a lot worse. McKenry is not capable of being a full-time starter and we don't have anyone else in the system capable of giving us replacement-level quality play right now. We have a couple real solid catching prospects in the low minors...hopefully by the time Martin's contract is up Sanchez will have pushed his way back into the picture and one of the youngsters will have grabbed the catcher of the future monicker.

The Pirates spent money to fix an organizational weakness. Just let those words sink in.

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11-30-2012, 02:27 AM
  #429
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Can't really think of anything they could have done that would have been better. I'm no Russell Martin fan, but it's either this or Kelly Shoppach or some other troubling option. Or try and pull off a miracle and find some diamond minor league free agent.

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11-30-2012, 02:36 AM
  #430
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I wonder which catcher will be wearing #55 next year.



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11-30-2012, 06:32 AM
  #431
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I feel like I don't even know you anymore.

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11-30-2012, 02:27 PM
  #432
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Bucs will Non-tender Karstens.

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Old
11-30-2012, 02:34 PM
  #433
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Disappointing, but not terribly surprising. He was likely to get quite the raise in arbitration...not necessarily what you want from an injury-prone #4/5 guy. Hopefully we'll still be able to bring him back...but I imagine someone will overpay him on the market.

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11-30-2012, 02:56 PM
  #434
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Hopefully they grab another starter. theres a rumor out there of a Hannrahan for Capuano trade with LA.

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11-30-2012, 03:25 PM
  #435
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Don't understand the non-tendering of Karstens. Yeah, he's injury prone and pretty much a guarantee not to last all year as a starter, but the guy has pitched 253 innings the last 2 years with a 3.59 era and that is predominately as a starter.

You're not guying to find that type of production on the open market for less than what Karstens would get through arbitration.

I've been so poisoned by the Pirates over the years that I don't think I can ever give them the benefit of the doubt on anything.

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11-30-2012, 03:43 PM
  #436
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After reading Karstens was projected to make $3.8 million via arbitration...I'm pissed off by that one now. In the $4.5-5 million neighborhood I can buy it as a risk that may not be worth it for a guy who has bottom-of-the-rotation stuff...but anything under $4 million and you're not going to be able to replace that via free agency.

Mind you I don't think the Pirates are looking for #4/5 guys right now. I think we're looking for another #2/3 guy to help ease the youngsters into the rotation. The problem is...we still need a swing guy, one with experience. Karstens has filled that role so well in the past that he keeps getting promoted to starter.

Both sides are still open to him returning...but he'll easily make $4-4.5 million on the free market.



Capuano...I can't get excited about that one. He'd help the rotation this year...but he's also on the final year of his deal at the age of 34. He'd be retainable, but I'd want more years of control to give up Hanrahan. If we are able to re-sign Grilli I think Hanrahan's days are numbered, though. Maybe regardless. He's only got one more year of arbitration left and there's no way we're going to (nor should) sign a closer to a huge contract. The longer we wait the less we'll get. The nice thing is that we have plenty of closer candidates within the system that are close to being ready...I just wouldn't be handing any of them the job outright yet.

edit: Capuano has an option on his deal - $6 million for 2014 or a $1 million buyout. $12 million over two years for a #3 starter like Capuano is pretty reasonable. I just wouldn't expect a repeat of his numbers from 2012 since he won't be starting 16 games at Dodger Stadium again.


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11-30-2012, 09:16 PM
  #437
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Damn I really liked Karstens he was one of our best pitchers last year, maybe second only behind AJ.

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11-30-2012, 09:38 PM
  #438
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I'm not comfortable with giving hefty contracts with multiple years to over-the-hill players named Martin. Remember the last time that happened?

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11-30-2012, 10:24 PM
  #439
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So Resop's been traded to the Athletics for a barely anything prospect. Zach Thornton was a 23rd round pick 2010, and he's been nothing but a mediocre reliever who hasn't gotten out of High-A ball yet at 24. Resop had no future here, being arbitration eligible he wasn't likely to come back in any case.

Yamaico Navarro was traded to the Orioles for a 19-year-old Venezuelan pitcher.

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11-30-2012, 10:26 PM
  #440
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hate the "Paul" deal love the "Russell" deal.

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11-30-2012, 10:33 PM
  #441
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Rob Biertempfel ‏@BiertempfelTrib
#Pirates tender Joel Hanrahan, Neil Walker, James McDonald, Garrett Jones and Gaby Sanchez. Team comes to terms with Charlie Morton.

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11-30-2012, 10:43 PM
  #442
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Pirates should go after Giancarlo Stanton. Imagine the outfield with Stanton and McCutchen in it. Dirty, and if we wouldn't have to include Marte in that deal (which is nearly impossible), we would have the best core of outfielders in baseball. And we would probably lose one of Cole and Taillon, which would be bad. Probably Stanton for Marte, Taillon, Sanchez (you know, that bum catcher we picked 4th overall a few years back) and that 9th pick we got for not signing that clown Appel.

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11-30-2012, 10:53 PM
  #443
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We can't trade the 9th pick (only sandwich picks can be traded).

Trading for Stanton is just pure fantasy. Miami won't trade him...he doesn't make enough money.

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11-30-2012, 11:08 PM
  #444
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We can't trade the 9th pick (only sandwich picks can be traded).

Trading for Stanton is just pure fantasy. Miami won't trade him...he doesn't make enough money.
I thought we could trade that pick but not our actual 1st round pick. Baseball is all messed up with rules about that

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11-30-2012, 11:16 PM
  #445
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The pick we could trade has already been traded. It's not that complicated, you can only trade picks obtained through the competitive balance lottery, and only in the midst of the regular season.

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11-30-2012, 11:44 PM
  #446
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Also, Martin at 30 is not over the hill. He's a more than capable starting catcher.

I would have traded hammer for a starter, he's been getting more and more inconsistent. But I'm fine with keeping him.

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Old
12-01-2012, 12:26 PM
  #447
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Tendering him was a requirement to hold onto his rights. Hanrahan will likely get around $7 million via arbitration, so he's still very likely to get traded. I don't see a scenario where he's still with the team come 2014.

Two 40-man roster spots cleared up yesterday as Yamaico Navarro was traded to the Orioles and Chris Resop to the Athletics. Both were likely to be non-tendered.

FWIW Charlie Morton signed a one-year, $2 million deal to avoid arbitration. I don't like that in place of signing Karstens...I see why the Pirates are reluctant to give up on Chuck, but Tommy John Surgery for a 29 year-old who was only just starting to find his game is going to be a difficult recovery. Morton could potentially be that swing man in the pitching staff.

The money makes sense, as it's a $445k pay cut for Morton from what he was awarded last year. Despite the Tommy John Surgery Morton was still projected to get $2.6-2.7 million via arbitration, which the Pirates would have walked away from. $2 million gives Morton the guarantee that he'll have a Major League contract this year (he'd probably have an incentive-laden minor league deal elsewhere because he probably won't be in the Majors until June) while it cuts down on his contract while still retaining a guy who clearly has Major League-quality stuff for the Pirates.

I'm not expecting miracles with Morton, but we'll see. Tommy John Surgery seems to be making massive improvements almost every year...it's more Morton's inconsistencies that worry me than his arm healing properly. Still, if he can come back and give us another arm at the bottom of the rotation, that could be huge.


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12-01-2012, 03:49 PM
  #448
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Wtf...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/86...-team-facility

Quote:
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher fatally shot his girlfriend Saturday, then drove to Arrowhead Stadium and committed suicide in front of his coach and general manager.

Authorities did not release a possible motive for the murder-suicide, though police said that Belcher and his girlfriend, 22-year-old Kasandra M. Perkins, had been arguing recently. The two of them have an infant child.

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12-01-2012, 04:01 PM
  #449
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That only seems to happen in football. Why is that? A big part of me wants to play the race card, but I know (hope) that isn't the case. How often do you hear of this happening in hockey or baseball or soccer or any other sport? Almost never. But then you get all of this crap in football, like Plax shooting himself, rookies getting arrested for DUIs, murder-suicides, and all of the other crap. It seems like it only happens in football.

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12-01-2012, 04:16 PM
  #450
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WTF indeed.

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