HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Impact of Glendale election on fate of Phoenix Coyotes future

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-07-2012, 08:01 PM
  #1
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,493
vCash: 500
Impact of Glendale election on fate of Phoenix Coyotes future

Our story thus far... Outgoing city council decided they needed to revise the proposed Jobing.com arena lease and still haven't approved it (almost a month after apparently getting agreement from Jamison on changed/new terms). Mayor and a number council seats getting new folks. And there was a measure on ballot for approval of increased sales tax to help pay for lease "payments" to Coyotes and other city services.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...ition-457.html

So, on Prop 457 -- which would keep the sales tax increase if defeated (and it was) and the impact on the Coyotes.

Quote:
The council has been divided on the issue. Mayor Elaine Scruggs, Councilwoman Norma Alvarez and former Councilman Phil Lieberman, who resigned last month, question the need for the hike when the city at the same time has justified spending upward of $300 million to retain the Phoenix Coyotes hockey team at its city-owned arena.
A council majority of Joyce Clark, Steve Frate, Yvonne Knaack and Manny Martinez blame the economy for the financial situation and say keeping the Coyotes is in the long-term interest of the city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...medium=twitter


And Shoalts weighs in


Quote:
Even though part of the $25-million (all currency U.S.) was expected to go towards payments to the NHL team, which will average $15-million per year over the 20-year arena lease, there is no guarantee the new lineup at city council will keep the lease in place. The current council, which will remain in office until January, was shown a reworked Coyotes lease that lowered the payment to prospective owner Greg Jamison from $17-million to $11-million in the first year but it has not officially approved it.
The new mayor, former Arizona lawmaker Jerry Weiers, issued a shot across the bow of the NHL and the Coyotes on Tuesday night after he won the race to replace outgoing mayor Elaine Scruggs. Weiers said Glendale, a cash-strapped city of 250,000 that had to handle a $35-million deficit in its 2013 budget, “is not your cash register.” He also professed his love for the Coyotes but said, “we cannot sacrifice our way of life so they can maintain theirs.”

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 08:34 PM
  #2
Fehr Time*
The Don of Hockey
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,789
vCash: 500
Looks like Glendale has a mayor with a brain finally. Too bad the NHL has already cleaned out a good chunk of their cash register...

Fehr Time* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 08:43 PM
  #3
blues10
Registered User
 
blues10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,052
vCash: 500
There are also still disagreements between GJ and the COG over the terms of the lease.

Quote:
sonu munshi‏@smunshi

#Glendale city manager said there are some deal points that they're still negotiating. That there is disagreement over some aspects.
https://twitter.com/smunshi

blues10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 08:51 PM
  #4
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,437
vCash: 500
... lets see if he backs it with more than words. History of hypocrisy & intransigence within the political classes is as wide as its deep. Shoaltsies hyperbole aside, Jerry's a professional politician.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 09:10 PM
  #5
SoundsGood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
vCash: 500
What is the deadline?

SoundsGood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 09:20 PM
  #6
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post
What is the deadline?
For what?

The current lease (with NHL) is being extended month-to-month. (I think they have another extension they need to approve if there is no new agreement.)

Jamison (et al) has not purchased the team. Any "else" (who/where) deadline I'm guessing could be near end of calendar year (to give league time to know other venue for scheduling, realignment, etc.).

New city council takes office in January, IIRC.

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 09:33 PM
  #7
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,859
vCash: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post
What is the deadline?
You haven't been following closely, deadlines no longer mean anything in fact there not even extended at the end of the month any longer.

sipowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 09:50 PM
  #8
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post
What is the deadline?
No such thing exists.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 09:58 PM
  #9
cbcwpg
Registered User
 
cbcwpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between the Pipes
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blues10 View Post
There are also still disagreements between GJ and the COG over the terms of the lease.

sonu munshi‏@smunshi

#Glendale city manager said there are some deal points that they're still negotiating. That there is disagreement over some aspects.

https://twitter.com/smunshi
Jamison: Give me all your money!

CoG: We can't... think of the libraries.

cbcwpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2012, 10:12 PM
  #10
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Casablanca
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
Jamison: Give me all your money! .
CoG: We can't... think of the libraries.
Excellent flow. CSNY. Almost Cut My Hair. Basic chord fret. "When I finally get myself together"... whatshisname screaming on the backend?... followed by Neil Youngs' Helpless Helpless. "Blue blue windows behind the Stars. Big Birds flying behind the Skys'. Helpless helpless helpless"... Deja vu.

Killion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 08:37 AM
  #11
Mightygoose
I Am Groot
 
Mightygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ajax, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,420
vCash: 500
Does anyone know if the NHL and GOC have extended the month to month lease at the arena for another 30 days?....not that it means too much exect a bridge to the next 30 days extension and so on.....

Mightygoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 09:09 AM
  #12
Fidel Astro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood View Post
What is the deadline?
Two weeks.

Fidel Astro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 10:37 AM
  #13
JMT21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 823
vCash: 500
Always surprising that a council with 7 weeks left in their terms with the majority off to greener pastures come January 1st still has authority to consummate a 300M + subsidy.. thus tying the hands of the new council to a monstrous debt which the majority of the new council are likely opposed.

If the new mayors "shot across the bow" is serious..... he might want to fire off a letter/email directly to GJ himself letting him know the new council won't be willing to "play nice" with him.

JMT21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-08-2012, 10:43 AM
  #14
powerstuck
User Registered
 
powerstuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Quebec City
Country: Serbia
Posts: 2,443
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
Does anyone know if the NHL and GOC have extended the month to month lease at the arena for another 30 days?....not that it means too much exect a bridge to the next 30 days extension and so on.....
Not sure they did. Maybe they didn't because NHL canceled games till November 30th before they had to extend the monthly deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMT21 View Post
...

If the new mayors "shot across the bow" is serious..... he might want to fire off a letter/email directly to GJ himself letting him know the new council won't be willing to "play nice" with him.
Already done, even before the elections, many of the upcoming candidates, some of them were even adversaries in the same district, but they all co-signed a letter asking Jamison to unveil his investors and his plans. I think the letter remained unanswered.

powerstuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 02:30 PM
  #15
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,493
vCash: 500
http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...cal-shift.html

Quote:
The political winds in Glendale will shift in January when four new elected leaders are seated on the City Council, the first major change in years for the West Valley city known for its long-standing leaders.

A new majority is expected to take a more skeptical stance on a Phoenix Coyotes deal and ease, although not give up, opposition to a proposed tribal casino.

An independent audit to scrutinize spending in the cash-strapped city seems all but assured based on newly elected members’ campaign rhetoric.

The transformation began last week as voters ousted the only incumbent, 16-year Councilwoman Joyce Clark, who ran in the city that’s seen its heavy investment in professional sports falter.
...
However, two months remain before Weiers and the others are sworn into office. The current majority could still secure a deal to keep the hockey franchise at the city-owned arena this month.
...
Interim City Manager Horatio Skeete last week said if voters had repealed the tax increase, estimated to bring in about $25million annually for five years, the deal would have died.

“It would have been much, much too heavy,” Skeete said.

The 20-year deal, in its current form, would require the city to pay Coyotes suitor Greg Jamison an average of $15million annually to manage the city-owned Jobing.com Arena. The four-member council majority has said keeping the team as the anchor tenant at the arena is in the long-term best interest of the city. Skeete has agreed.
...
Clark went on to say that a vote on the agreement with Jamison would happen Nov.27.
Two more weeks....

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 03:05 PM
  #16
Evil Doctor
89 years later...
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
And then we start the countdown to when the new council reverses it...

Evil Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 03:17 PM
  #17
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,859
vCash: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
But, but, but.. the COG, Clarke and Skeete repeatedly said that the sales tax increase had no bearing on the arena management (subsidy) deal with gramps Jamison.

sipowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 03:27 PM
  #18
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 11,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
And then we start the countdown to when the new council reverses it...
Would be difficult to reverse a signed contract.

mouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 04:21 PM
  #19
aqib
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,421
vCash: 500
Quick question, why do we have a separate thread for the Glendale election when the one in the sticky covers it.

aqib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 04:29 PM
  #20
LadyStanley
Elasmobranchology-go
 
LadyStanley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North of the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 56,493
vCash: 500
Because the mega thread (stickied) covers all aspects and discussion when the non-stickied threads are news driven (IOW some thing is/will be happening).

LadyStanley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:39 PM
  #21
Evil Doctor
89 years later...
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
Would be difficult to reverse a signed contract.
No it wouldn't, especially since the Jamison and the former councillors will appear to be attempting to thwart democratic will. And what would the remedy be when council reverses it's decision? The lease is broken and the Coyotes leave...

Evil Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 05:57 PM
  #22
Tinalera
Registered User
 
Tinalera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Known Universe
Posts: 6,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
No it wouldn't, especially since the Jamison and the former councillors will appear to be attempting to thwart democratic will. And what would the remedy be when council reverses it's decision? The lease is broken and the Coyotes leave...
That's what I think as well. I can see the current ramming through a deal, and the new council taking legal action to reverse it, not to mention GWI getting into the act as well, as well as a probable upcoming audit thrown into the mix (which may or may not be related to the Yotes, but boy will get some serious attention)

Basically, I think if someone thinks "okay, Outgoing council signed agreement, Yotes are staying, end of story", will be mistaken.

What it WILL be, IMO, is the end game finally starting.

Also, for players who LIVE in that area, you're going to have the townsfolk-rightly or wrongly, blaming you for increased taxes that were supposed to go to Fire and Police-I think by principle the attendance will drop to hundreds from the backlash.

Tinalera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 06:38 PM
  #23
mouser
Global Moderator
Business of Hockey
 
mouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Mountain
Posts: 11,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Doctor View Post
No it wouldn't, especially since the Jamison and the former councillors will appear to be attempting to thwart democratic will. And what would the remedy be when council reverses it's decision? The lease is broken and the Coyotes leave...
The remedy is whatever the contract says happens if one party [CoG in your example] is in breach of the contract. If the contract doesn't contain breach terms then either side can still sue for breach with all sorts of possible legal outcomes.

City councils, and most government legislative bodies can't just void legal contracts by voting later they don't want them.

mouser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 09:12 PM
  #24
knorthern knight
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,873
vCash: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
City councils, and most government legislative bodies can't just void legal contracts by voting later they don't want them.
If the AMF agreement merely says that the Coyotes can walk, without additional cash penalty to Glendale, "strategic default" as part of an austerity budget is an option.

BTW, if GWI sues to invalidate the AMF contract, is Glendale required to put up much of a fight in court? Is there a civil equivalant to "nolo contendere"?

knorthern knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2012, 10:58 PM
  #25
Evil Doctor
89 years later...
 
Evil Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cambridge, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser View Post
The remedy is whatever the contract says happens if one party [CoG in your example] is in breach of the contract. If the contract doesn't contain breach terms then either side can still sue for breach with all sorts of possible legal outcomes.

City councils, and most government legislative bodies can't just void legal contracts by voting later they don't want them.
Of course they can, especially with a lease agreement that is mostly a big middle finger to the City of Glendale that runs contrary to the wishes of the populous.

Look, we're talking about a sports team. All teams are portable, thus all leases are weighted towards keeping the team in their present location with big penalties if the team tries to break the lease, not the other way around. There is going to be no penalties leveled at the municipality for the simple reason that franchise is now portable and has now gained in value. There is no damage to the team. At worse the new city council sponsors a referendum to overturn the lease.

Taking a lease to the lame duck council now is a pure and simple suicide move that will only infuriate the incoming council and alienate the general population. There is no happy endings for the Coyotes going this route...

Evil Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.