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Reimers first season Vs Masons first season

View Poll Results: Who had the better first season
Reimer 6 3.30%
Mason 176 96.70%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:01 AM
  #51
TieClark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whydidijoin View Post
Yes, because 37 is 1/3 of 61.

And the actual play is what is being argued.
The point was Reimer came in around the trade deadline because of injuries and stood on his head and nearly brought a bottom feeder leafs into the playoffs.

Mason played all year and had tremendous stats, a ton of shutouts and stood on his head all year.


The awards voting means nothing. Reimer wasn't eligible and therefore you can't compare them. Their actual play is debatable... I don't think Reimer gets 10 shutouts but if you double his 3 he gets to 6 which is a lot closer to 10. The .GAA could definitely be attributed to the team Mason played on and the GP again really means nothing. Reimer had a better sv% but again if he plays a full year that can go down for sure.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:04 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Do you think Reimer is a capable #1?
He can be. So far we've seen 37 games of incredible play and then after a concussion 34 games of sub par play. At 24 years old who knows what Reimer does in the future.

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11-20-2012, 11:05 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Clearly it's Mason...

Reimer only played a 1/3 of the season and as incredible as he was (their actual play I can see an argument for), Mason did it for a full seasons length.
Mason did what for a full season, exactly?

MonthStartsSave PercentageGAA
November80.9192.09
December120.9501.41
January130.9042.67
February90.9012.41
March140.9142.46
April50.8833.08
That year, the average save percentage of a goalie who played more than 30% of his teams' games was 0.911, so..

Mason had a phenomenal December, an above average November, a barely average March, and was well below league average in 3 separate months.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:13 AM
  #54
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Mason. Not close.

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:24 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Again, suffered a concussion, was off the ice for a month, then thrown back in with only a few practices against a Boston team that lit us up all season. Couple that with the fact that Wilson was incredible hard on him and played him incosistently and you get a mess that couldnt regain form. Miller is the perfect comparison in the situation, took him 2 months of playing almost every game to finally return to form after he was out with a concussion and this coming from an experienced vet, on of the best in the game. I know a perfectly reasonable and rational explination wont get through to you considering your the least reasonable, most ignorant and trollish poster on these boards, but that is the main cause of Reimers downfall last season. Not to mention Reimers "terrible" season was still better than Masons and was on par with his last 2 seasons prior.
Thats a lot of excuses.
hes just not a number one goalie. not even close. good day.

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11-20-2012, 11:31 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Do you think Reimer is a capable #1?
Not at the moment, but he is still young, and has the work ethic and potential to become one. In due time if he works on his rebound control and glove hand there is no reason why he cant be a positionally sound "safe" goalie ala Giguere. I never expect him to be a top 5 goaltender in the league but a consistent .915-.920 is definitely possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Thats a lot of excuses.
hes just not a number one goalie. not even close. good day.
Reimer is not a #1 at the moment, but he definitely has the potential to be. You give no reason why Mason is better and have no respons to the factors that have contributed to his down fall, good day my friend!

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Old
11-20-2012, 12:00 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
The point was Reimer came in around the trade deadline because of injuries and stood on his head and nearly brought a bottom feeder leafs into the playoffs.
Reimer's 1st NHL start was Janurary 1, 2011 and the trade deadline was February 28, 2011. So it was a good amount of time between both dates.

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11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
  #58
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Old
11-20-2012, 01:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Reimer's 1st NHL start was Janurary 1, 2011 and the trade deadline was February 28, 2011. So it was a good amount of time between both dates.
iirc he didn't start playing full time until around the deadline. That first start was a spot start

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11-20-2012, 01:13 PM
  #60
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It's possible Reimer played a little better, but Mason had a much larger sample. Definitely Mason.

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11-20-2012, 01:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
Mason did what for a full season, exactly?

MonthStartsSave PercentageGAA
November80.9192.09
December120.9501.41
January130.9042.67
February90.9012.41
March140.9142.46
April50.8833.08
That year, the average save percentage of a goalie who played more than 30% of his teams' games was 0.911, so..

Mason had a phenomenal December, an above average November, a barely average March, and was well below league average in 3 separate months.
Thank you!

Mason had the better season but it is/was greatly overrated. He has been a crappy goalie since 2009 and has been riding off that hot streak ever since.

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Old
11-20-2012, 03:25 PM
  #62
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This is a little irrelevant to the thread, but worth reading for all you Reimer haters out there..

Luongo vs Schneider
Quote:
Colorado's Varlarmov looks like he is a solid bet to be good.. And, Toronto's much maligned James Reimer is third! I had to rerun the numbers! I couldn't believe it! I mean who would say that Reimer is as strong a prospect as Schneider?
Quote:
Steve Mason of the Columbus Blue Jackets is a recent example. He is a former world junior champion in 2008 and in his first 1266 shots (through 61 games) he had a stellar .925 save %.

He was the winner of the prestigious Calder Trophy for the NHL best rookie that year, a certain star of the future and many were touting him as a potential Canadian Olympic goalie for 2010. Using the previous graph, at that time, Mason had a ~75% chance of being an above average goalie.In his next 1200 shots his save% plummeted to .911. Now, 3 years later, having faced over 4800 shots in his career Mason's save % is well below average at a bleak .914.
It's pretty clear Mason rode a hot streak and is nowhere near being even league average at this point... With Reimer there's a lot more uncertainty but he certainly looks very good moving forward. Too early to know if he'll be a Rask/Schneider/Varlamov or a Mason guy.

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11-20-2012, 03:39 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
This is a little irrelevant to the thread, but worth reading for all you Reimer haters out there..

Luongo vs Schneider



It's pretty clear Mason rode a hot streak and is nowhere near being even league average at this point... With Reimer there's a lot more uncertainty but he certainly looks very good moving forward. Too early to know if he'll be a Rask/Schneider/Varlamov or a Mason guy.
How so?
He was dreadful last year. I don't see how you can say he looks very good moving forward. Reimer's nowhere near league average just like Mason.

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11-20-2012, 03:52 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
How so?
He was dreadful last year. I don't see how you can say he looks very good moving forward. Reimer's nowhere near league average just like Mason.
He had a concussion last year...

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Old
11-20-2012, 04:11 PM
  #65
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11-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
He had a concussion last year...
Yes, I know. And the year before that he had 30 or so good games. He's as big as question mark as Mason right now.

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Old
11-20-2012, 06:14 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Yes, I know. And the year before that he had 30 or so good games. He's as big as question mark as Mason right now.
Hes played roughly the same amount of games as Schneider and the article above clearly shows that his poor PK numbers are bringing down his overall numbers. That may be a cause of the Leafs having one of the worst PK in the league.....

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11-20-2012, 06:20 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
iirc he didn't start playing full time until around the deadline. That first start was a spot start
I thought he was basically given the #1 Goalie position a few weeks before the 2011 All Star Game, because he was playing so well and debate about sending him back to the Marlies.

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11-20-2012, 06:22 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
How so?
He was dreadful last year. I don't see how you can say he looks very good moving forward. Reimer's nowhere near league average just like Mason.
That article was dated March 29th, 2012, so it already included all of Reimers' starts...

Even during his "dreadful" play last year, James Reimer had a 0.918 save percentage at even strength, which is barely a notch below league average (roughly 0.920). A goaltender who, in a down year, comes very close to league average is absolutely not "nowhere near league average".

That means that for Reimers' career, he's at 0.926 (again, at even strength).

To put that in perspective, last year:

GoalieEVSV%
Henrik Lundqvist0.933
Roberto Luongo0.929
Pekka Rinne0.928
Tim Thomas0.927
Kari Lehtonen0.926
Semyon Varlamov0.923
Cam Ward0.919
Jonas Hiller0.915
Marc-Andre Fleury0.915

So yes, 0.926 is pretty darn good. Goaltenders who can post numbers like that, or close to that, are bonafide starters in the NHL and in a good season might be a top-5 goalie in the league.

Keep in mind that it takes ~3000 even strength shots to accurately gauge a goaltenders' talent level, so I'm not saying Reimer will be that, but if his play averages out somewhere in between last year, and '10-'11, he will be a very good goaltender.

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11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
That article was dated March 29th, 2012, so it already included all of Reimers' starts...

Even during his "dreadful" play last year, James Reimer had a 0.918 save percentage at even strength, which is barely a notch below league average (roughly 0.920). A goaltender who, in a down year, comes very close to league average is absolutely not "nowhere near league average".

That means that for Reimers' career, he's at 0.926 (again, at even strength).

To put that in perspective, last year:

GoalieEVSV%
Henrik Lundqvist0.933
Roberto Luongo0.929
Pekka Rinne0.928
Tim Thomas0.927
Kari Lehtonen0.926
Semyon Varlamov0.923
Cam Ward0.919
Jonas Hiller0.915
Marc-Andre Fleury0.915

So yes, 0.926 is pretty darn good. Goaltenders who can post numbers like that, or close to that, are bonafide starters in the NHL and in a good season might be a top-5 goalie in the league.

Keep in mind that it takes ~3000 even strength shots to accurately gauge a goaltenders' talent level, so I'm not saying Reimer will be that, but if his play averages out somewhere in between last year, and '10-'11, he will be a very good goaltender.
Why are you just looking at his even strength goals. So much of today's game is special teams and this is where your goalei needs to come up big. His save percentage and GA average were bottom of the league or thereabouts. I watched him play last year. He was simply dreadful. You certainly hope he can bounce back but I don't see him ever being a legitimate starting goalie on a good team. It could happen. I just don't see the odds as being very high.

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11-20-2012, 06:38 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Hes played roughly the same amount of games as Schneider and the article above clearly shows that his poor PK numbers are bringing down his overall numbers. That may be a cause of the Leafs having one of the worst PK in the league.....
Your goalie is your most important PK'er. I watched a lot of hockey last year and he was nowhere close to Schneider's level of play. Reimer gave up far too many soft goals that deflated his team. He needs to have a big bounce back year to show that he can be a legitimate starting goalie, IMO.

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11-20-2012, 09:41 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bure All Day View Post
Mason took the blue jackets to the playoffs... I'll repeat, "THE COLUMBUS BLUE JACKETS IN THE NHL PLAYOFFS"

Reimer couldn't do the same thing, and the leafs are a better team on paper
Nash took the Blue Jacket to the playoffs. 40 goals and 79 points. It's a ridiculous outlier on his stat sheet. And Mason had a Columbus team in front of him that was built almost exclusively out of defensive specialists. Toronto, while it has more offense, had/has very weak defensive play up front and on the blue line.

The answer to the question, of course, is Pekka Rinne. And after him it's Reimer.

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11-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
That article was dated March 29th, 2012, so it already included all of Reimers' starts...

Even during his "dreadful" play last year, James Reimer had a 0.918 save percentage at even strength, which is barely a notch below league average (roughly 0.920). A goaltender who, in a down year, comes very close to league average is absolutely not "nowhere near league average".

That means that for Reimers' career, he's at 0.926 (again, at even strength).

To put that in perspective, last year:

GoalieEVSV%
Henrik Lundqvist0.933
Roberto Luongo0.929
Pekka Rinne0.928
Tim Thomas0.927
Kari Lehtonen0.926
Semyon Varlamov0.923
Cam Ward0.919
Jonas Hiller0.915
Marc-Andre Fleury0.915

So yes, 0.926 is pretty darn good. Goaltenders who can post numbers like that, or close to that, are bonafide starters in the NHL and in a good season might be a top-5 goalie in the league.

Keep in mind that it takes ~3000 even strength shots to accurately gauge a goaltenders' talent level, so I'm not saying Reimer will be that, but if his play averages out somewhere in between last year, and '10-'11, he will be a very good goaltender.
Numbers like that don't mean much when you've never even started for half a season in your career. Reimer needs to put up numbers like that while starting 60+ games before he's considered a bonafide starter.

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Old
11-20-2012, 10:38 PM
  #74
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And seriously, the guy had 10 shutouts. On Columbus. That's all you even need to know.
And that is the problem. People see Columbus and what they are now, and they revise history to make themselves think that Columbus was the same then.

The very fact that he had 10 shutouts and still only had those numbers pretty much says it all. The guy rode one hot month and has made a terrible 4 year career out of it so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvstrand View Post
Bobby Ryan had 31 goals and 57 points in 64 games that year, yet Steve Mason won the calder over him and was 2nd for the Vezina Trophy. So even if his svs% wasn't anything incredible, he must have done something right. And as pointed out before, he played a whole lot more games than Reimer did in his rookie year.
Yes, he did do something right. He was a goalie having a good season. That is pretty much a Calder guarantee. He only played 24 more games than Reimer in his rookie year, and the only reason Reimer didn't play more is because he entered the league halfway through the season.

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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
If you had watched Mason play more than a couple of games in his rookie season it is easy to make this choice and say it is Mason. If you are the kind of guy who looks at stats and didn't see the games and wants to make a case for his guy, maybe you come up with something other than Mason was far better in his rookie season, but you would be coloring history to please yourself.
I saw plenty of games in his rookie season. I said he was over-hyped then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Seeing I am who you are referring. I shall clarify. The thread was asking Reimer's value, and Toronto having to add a third is not a longshot claim because I suspect Columbus would prefer to just keep Mason.
Columbus would be paying us to take Mason, Reimer or not. It is a ridiculous claim.

If Mason is our return, Toronto would just rather keep Reimer, so your argument makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Mason stood on his head all year.
A highly debatable statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
iirc he didn't start playing full time until around the deadline. That first start was a spot start
He played 19 games before the trade deadline...

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Old
11-20-2012, 11:00 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie Spankie View Post
Obviously Mason.

On a side-note, whatever happened to him anyway? Fluke? Product of a Hitchcock system? Injury? A combination?
A little bit of those, along with after that first year, everyone noticed that Mason has a tendency to drop his glove and everyone started firing pucks there.

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